PBP: 2019 FIFA U-20 World Cup Round of 16: USA vs France

Discussion in 'Youth National Teams' started by Sebsasour, May 31, 2019.

  1. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Wussconsin
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Everything, except for the goals part.

    *key passes
    *dribbling/take-on ability
    *defense
    *motor
    *speed
    *runs
    *power

    You claim he looked average against CONCACAF minnows, but after Tab's first inclination was to start Soto, Rennicks won the job on performance against them. And he played well sans finishing against all teams including Mexico.

    As far as not getting minutes on that team, he had nagging injuries early in the season, one which made him questionable for this tourney, and Friedel got canned because he was a poor coach. His own team's fans were fans of his play in preseason and to some extent what regular season time he's received as well. You don't want Carleton to be judged by how much or little he's played across 2 managers now, and frankly, he's played worse in his limited time than Rennicks.
     
    USSoccerNova, don Lamb and Pl@ymaker repped this.
  2. Lloyd Heilbrunn

    Lloyd Heilbrunn Member+

    Feb 11, 2002
    Jupiter, Fl.
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    [​IMG]
     
    Pl@ymaker repped this.
  3. don Lamb

    don Lamb Member+

    mine
    United States
    Aug 31, 2017
    I agree that a possession based lineup is better here than a defensive lineup -- basically, that means leaving Servania (please) or Cerrillo out of the lineup. It could also mean playing Rennicks as a false 9 that comes back into the midfield, which could spring wingers like Weah and Konrad or a central player like Pomykal to get high. He played that role very well in CONCACAF and is part of the reason he didn't factor in as many goals.

    The biggest question/gamble might be Dest, but I think him coming back in makes sense as his strength is in playing the ball. I don't think his defense is as bad as he showed against Ukraine where he was culpable on the two long balls -- he defends very well when he has an attacker facing away from goal, less so in 1v1 where the attacker is facing goal. I do think Araujo can play out of the back in Dest's style and might be a better defender, but he's never played with this team, and it seems like an inopportune time to bring him in.

    Bottom line is that we should look to exploit France's press similar to how we did Nigeria's. Nigeria sat deeper than France most likely will (thanks for that tip, @Thundering165 ), so the movement will have to be quicker, and the opportunities for Weah and Konrad to get in behind should be there. Admittedly, there is risk in playing this way, but that is the end goal, and it's what the youth teams have been trying to accomplish for several years now. Why abandon that task when there is a chance to prove that we can do it against a quality side. All players in the starting lineup are capable of playing this way, with Weah being the one who would struggle the most. If Servania is in the lineup, I think that throws a huge wrench in it as well. Hopefully the midfield is Cerrillo with Pomykal and Ledezma ahead of him.
     
    Aaron Killough repped this.
  4. bpet15

    bpet15 Member+

    Oct 4, 2016
    Big gamble to play a possession based team when it is highly unlikely that we will have the majority of possession.
     
    IndividualEleven and DHC1 repped this.
  5. AutoPenalti

    AutoPenalti Am I famous yet?

    Sep 26, 2011
    Coconut Creek
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Knowing Tab, it will be the former.
     
  6. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    What’s your rationale for possession being better than a defensive setup?
     
  7. SUDano

    SUDano Member+

    Jan 18, 2003
    Rochester, NY
    Link?
     
    Deeneaus repped this.
  8. Sebsasour

    Sebsasour Member+

    New Mexico United
    May 26, 2012
    Albuquerque NM
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ecuador will be our opponent if we do pull the upset
     
    Gacm32, SteelyTom, gunnerfan7 and 7 others repped this.
  9. Cynical US fan

    United States
    Mar 30, 2017
    Boston
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What is the story about Araujo? He's a dual-national, and hasn't played in any of the matches.
    If he's any better than Dest, then let him play.
    Nah, Ramos will choose the worst possible lineup.
    Unfortunately I think we will be overpowered.
    Not enough there to meet the challenge.
     
  10. Sombrerito

    Sombrerito Member

    Arsenal
    United States
    May 6, 2018
    I wish I could watch or at least keep track, but will be busy at work. I really hope the decisions of tab not playing his best RB and DM who are Cerillo and Araujo respectively doesn’t come and bite this team in the a**, on top of the lack of rotation and playing of Llanez and Ledezma. If Tab can get his team choices right this team is talented enough to beat France.

    But hey for a US team to be without Adams, Amon and Sargent for this tourney is quite impressive. Whatever happens I’m extremely excited for the development of this group into the U23s >>>USMNT.
     
  11. LouisZ

    LouisZ Member+

    Oct 14, 2010
    Southern California-USA
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I see it different, Soto is due to have another good game.

    Also, we are now familiar with them so is not going to be that tentative in our part.
     
  12. WheezingUSASupport

    Dortmund
    United States
    Aug 28, 2017
    I agree with you on Cerillo but what makes you think Araujo is better than Dest?

    Not saying I think Dest is better than Araujo, but sounds like the thought of trying anything different from what didn’t work, even if that other option may be worse.
     
  13. don Lamb

    don Lamb Member+

    mine
    United States
    Aug 31, 2017
    I'd say it's less of a gamble that surrendering more of the possession. Also, this goes beyond that premise. Our youth teams should not recoil from the possession based approach that they have been brought up in just because they are coming up against a team with more professional experience.

    In addition to being a possession based team being the goal that we have been building toward for several years, I would echo what someone (maybe @adam tash ) said that possession is a good defensive strategy. Absorbing pressure is not what this team was built to do, and it would be disappointing to see our youth sit back. If we lose the game because of it, that's okay. You study the film, learn from the experience, and continue working.

    I'm not going to say that our squad is just as talented as France, but I don't the talent is so big that we should bow down to them and surrender the midfield. I would say the opposite is true -- this is the time to double down on what got us here and what we are building toward. Pomykal is a special player, and I trust that he has the ability to lead this team to a strong performance in a game like this.
     
    adam tash repped this.
  14. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    You haven’t given any specifics other than “we need to play more attractively”. Where is the tactical advantage to playing possession vs. France?

    Saying that our team wasn’t built to absorb pressure while emerging from CONCACAF is a terrible perspective.
     
    superdave repped this.
  15. Master O

    Master O Member+

    Jul 7, 2006
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So realistically speaking, this is gonna be a 3 - 0 win for France, right?
     
  16. don Lamb

    don Lamb Member+

    mine
    United States
    Aug 31, 2017
    #116 don Lamb, Jun 3, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2019
    Specifics? Let Pomykal take the game over...... Play Ledezma with him and see what they can create. The wings are most likely to be Weah and Konrad, and their athletic abilities can come in handy if they are delivered the ball in good spots. Everyone acts like France's press is something to be scared of, when in fact, that also reveals their greatest weakness. If they want to chase the ball all over the field, let them. Weah is probably the biggest liability in possession, but other than that, this team is set up to attack with the ball.

    I have confidence in a backline of Gloster, Richards, McKenzie, and Dest to keep the ball and make the right decisions. Don't forget that Scott has basically been begging forwards to pressure him when he has the ball. Aruaujo is a hugely exciting player, but he has never played with this squad, and he is young. The fact that he is even on this roster is a huge deal.

    In terms of choices, the most interesting choice for Tab might be between Rennicks and Soto. I personally would give the nod to Rennicks for his excellent movement rather than the more sure fire finisher. They are very different kinds of forwards and you could easily argue for either one. The other big choice is Servania and Cerrillo, who should be strongly preferred due to his significantly better defense and distribution.

    The tactical advantage in "playing possession" is in the fact that when you have the ball, you are probing and trying to discern where to attack instead of just going with the first and most direct option. I never said anything about playing "attractively." Defensively, this game will be challenging. France will be dangerous, and nothing is going to change that. However, that again is where possession comes into play. If we can keep possession successfully, we will keep the ball away from the other team for stretches and create chances. If we can keep possession somewhat, we will still be able to prevent France from starting attacks from dangerous positions. There is no guarantee that someone won't make a mistake. Who cares? Let's go play with France.
     
    Gacm32 and SteelyTom repped this.
  17. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    The goals part is pretty important. There aren't any good center forwards who don't contribute the goals part.

    When has Rennicks played well against good competition? I asked that question initially. You took it upon yourself to speak up for that viewpoint, and you didn't answer what I asked. Rennicks had a whole group stage in qualifying, and at best proved himself to be better than a goal scorer who doesn't score. I wouldn't use Ramos judgement in one game where Soto wasn't at his best as indication that Rennicks has played well. As I said, take Soto out of it. I think you (and the other people who are questioning Soto) will look bad with these comments eventually. I'm asking about Rennicks, and I see no indication he's proven himself against remotely good competition.

    You saw you were going to lose this argument, so you try to throw an insult my way, as if trying to misrepresent the truth about Carleton's performances is anything other than funny, but many of you have put yourselves in this box of being Carleton haters. I don't know how you've decided 1G, 2A in 409 minutes is worse than 0G, 0A in 44 minutes, but then again, you were the one outraged that a 1G, 0A in 897 minutes attacker didn't make the U-20 WC team, so your methodology of judging what is playing well is not a conventional one.
     
  18. Lloyd Heilbrunn

    Lloyd Heilbrunn Member+

    Feb 11, 2002
    Jupiter, Fl.
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Wanting to all all of a sudden start a guy who has been a last 10 minute substitute is pretty far out there...
     
  19. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Wussconsin
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Only true in this tourney, in the previous one he was a starter, and plenty of people (including myself) want to start guys who didn't play or came off the bench in the previous competition while not featuring at all in the WC. Put the blame on Ramos for his lack of rotation and biases toward some of his faves.
     
  20. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Wussconsin
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I didn't lose the argument. You asked what is he good at, and I told you. He's a wing/ss/cf, and lot of decent fw's on the lesser team like the US will be vs. France, aren't good goalscorers. They do dirty work, are the facilitators, and score here and there, i.e.: Heskey. I also told you when he played well against good competition, i.e.: Mexico. He also had a nice cameo against Ukraine, and he's fared decently in the MLS matches he's actually played in. That's all he could do. I brought up Carleton to point out the double standard you employ when you develop an affinity for a player early on or don't. It's a point. That criteria should apply to Rennicks. You take it as an insult because you're sensitive.
     
    Deeneaus and DHC1 repped this.
  21. Guinho

    Guinho Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes, bless their hearts
    Estonia
    May 27, 2001
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    Yup
     
  22. ifsteve

    ifsteve Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Jul 7, 2013
    MS and ID
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I get a kick out of the comments along the lines of "Tab just plays his guys." Seriously? Can you name me one coach in ANY sport who does not play "his guys?" A coach plays players that he has confidence in for a given situation. Of course they play their guys.
     
    Thundering165 repped this.
  23. AutoPenalti

    AutoPenalti Am I famous yet?

    Sep 26, 2011
    Coconut Creek
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Love it.
     
  24. TimB4Last

    TimB4Last Member+

    May 5, 2006
    Dystopia
    From the US Soccer preview ...

    • The French roster features 16 players born in 1999 and five born in 2000.
    • Fifteen players compete domestically in France at 13 clubs. Six ply their trade internationally in Germany (three), Belgium, Italy and Spain (one each).
    • Head coach Bernard Diomede helped France win the 1998 FIFA World Cup on home soil. He has managed in France’s youth set-up since 2015.
    https://www.ussoccer.com/stories/20...f-16-showdown-vs-france-at-fifa-u20-world-cup
     
  25. TimB4Last

    TimB4Last Member+

    May 5, 2006
    Dystopia
    Who should Ramos start? Who will he start?

    GOALKEEPERS (3): CJ Dos Santos (Benfica/POR; Foxchase, Pa.; 2/0), David Ochoa (Real Salt Lake; Oxnard, Calif.; 5/0), Brady Scott (Köln/GER; Petaluma, Calif.; 11/0)

    DEFENDERS (6): Julian Araujo (LA Galaxy; Lompoc, Calif.; 2/0), Sergino Dest (Ajax/NED; Almere-Stad, Netherlands; 10/1), Chris Gloster (Hannover 96/GER; Montclair, N.J.; 14/0), Aboubacar Keita (Columbus Crew SC; Columbus, Ohio; 5/0), Mark McKenzie (Philadelphia Union; Bear, Del.; 12/3), Matthew Real (Philadelphia Union; Drexel Hill, Pa.; 12/0), Chris Richards (Bayern Munich/GER; Birmingham, Ala.; 11/0)

    MIDFIELDERS (6): Edwin Cerrillo (FC Dallas; Frisco, Texas; 0/0), Chris Durkin (D.C. United; Glen Allen, Va.; 5/0), Richard Ledezma (PSV Eindhoven/NED; Phoenix, Ariz.; 5/0), Alex Mendez (Freiburg/GER; Los Angeles, Calif.; 18/8), Paxton Pomykal (FC Dallas; Highland Village, Texas; 11/3), Brandon Servania (FC Dallas; Dallas, Texas; 11/3)

    FORWARDS (5): Konrad De La Fuente (Barcelona/ESP; Miami, Fla.; 5/1), Ulysses Llanez (Wolfsburg/GER; Lynwood, Calif.; 12/7), Justin Rennicks (New England Revolution; South Hamilton, Mass.; 15/6), Sebastian Soto (Hannover 96/GER; San Diego, Calif.; 8/4), Tim Weah (Paris Saint-Germain/FRA; Rosedale, N.Y.; 3/1)
     

Share This Page