2019-2020 UEFA Referee Discussion [Rs]

https://streamable.com/j9ctw

 

The LOTG tell us that the autodeflection caveat applies when the defender plays the ball and then it hits a hand. In this case, the ball deflects off the defender and so the handball is still punishable.

I’ve been thinking about it like this- if the movement could reset offside, it also “resets” the handball. If not, handball is still an option. Not sure if that was an intentional consistency by IFAB but it helped me internalize better.

 

I'm not sure what situation you envisioned but RedStar's description started with "I know the defender made himself bigger," and at that point there is no caveat that makes it into not being an offence.

The caveat about it coming off the player first only applies to the "the hand/arm is above/beyond their shoulder level" situations.

Of course just what sort of situation the IFAB envisioned that would see the player having an arm above the shoulder in a way that doesn't also makes his body unnaturally bigger I have a hard time too imagine.

 

Exactly - that is how new handling LotG should be taught to referees at all levels.

 

"Usually" where the hand is above, or defender is making himself bigger, non-deliberate handball applies. Listed exceptions follow for other cases outside these two.
Full text of current FIFA Laws on Handling, pp. 104-5

Handling the ball
It is an offence if a player:
• deliberately touches the ball with their hand/arm, including moving the hand/arm towards the ball
• gains possession/control of the ball after it has touched their hand/arm and then:
••scores in the opponents’ goal
••creates a goal-scoring opportunity
• scores in the opponents’ goal directly from their hand/arm, even if accidental, including by the goalkeeper

It is usually an offence if a player:
• touches the ball with their hand/arm when:
••the hand/arm has made their body unnaturally bigger
•• the hand/arm is above/beyond their shoulder level (unless the player deliberately plays the ball which then touches their hand/arm)

The above offences apply even if the ball touches a player’s hand/arm directly from the head or body (including the foot) of another player who is close. Except for the above offences, it is not usually an offence if the ball touches a player’s hand/arm:
• directly from the player’s own head or body (including the foot)
• directly from the head or body (including the foot) of another player who is close
• if the hand/arm is close to the body and does not make the body unnaturally
bigger
• when a player falls and the hand/arm is between the body and the ground to
support the body, but not extended laterally or vertically away from the body

The goalkeeper has the same restrictions on handling the ball as any other
player outside the penalty area. If the goalkeeper handles the ball inside their
penalty area when not permitted to do so, an indirect free kick is awarded but
there is no disciplinary sanction.

 

UCL Matchday 3

Galatasaray - Real Madrid: ORSATO (ITA) [Fabbri (ITA)]
Brugge - PSG: SIEBERT (GER) [Dankert (GER)]
Tottenham - Crvena Zvezda: GUIDA (ITA) [Rocchi (ITA)]
Olympiacos - Bayern: MAKKELIE (NED) [Kamphuis (NED)]
Man City - Atalanta: GRINFELD (ISR) [Pinheiro (POR)]
Shakhtar - Dinamo: MATEU LAHOZ (ESP) [Hernandez Hernandez (ESP)]
Atletico - Leverkusen: SOARES DIAS (POR) [Lopes Martin (POR)]
Juventus - Lokomotiv Moscow: SIDIROPOULOS (GRE) [Zwayer (GER)]

Debut for Guida, who has Rocchi as his VAR.

 

Guida has been very impressive in Serie A over the last two years. His technical accuracy is strikIngly high. He isn’t a great man manager. A good way to describe him at times is “tense”.

In the limited international/European games I’ve seen him in, he’s looked much less at ease and as such performances have suffered. Massa, on the other hand, has had a disastrous start to the season in Serie A. That probably has a lot to do with Guida’s rise.

 

Björn Kuipers said he only wants to go to the Euro 2020 as a ref if that doesnot block Makkelie. Reason is that to be a WC referee your chances go up with a Euro tournement under your belt. As Kuipers most likely willnot feature in the next WC he wants Makkelie to get the best shot possible to get there.

 

Makkelie was a guest in the soccer show Studio Voetbal (talking about VAR moments too) in which he mentioned the number of top referees in Europe is bigger than the number of to be appointed ones for the EC2020.
So I guess there's a likelyhood that only one ref from the Netherlands is listed.
Probably Björn Kuipers puts some pressure on the select committee by this early announcement that they only can get him, if it is with Makkelie.

 

I like both Kuipers and Makkelie, and I firmly believe that they will both go to Euro2020.

But, I am equally certain that the UEFA Referee Committee will feel absolutely no pressure by any announcement from Kuipers, or any other active Referee for that matter.

They will take who they want to take, and if someone wants to turn down the invite, their attitude will be "OK, who's next?".

 

Genk - Liverpool: VINCIC (SVN) [Valeri (ITA)]
RB Salzburg - Napoli: TURPIN (FRA) [Letexier (FRA)]
Slavia Praha - Barcelona: MADDEN (SCO) [van Boekel (NED)]
Inter - Dortmund: TAYLOR (ENG) [Attwell (ENG)]
Benfica - Lyon: KRUZLIAK (SVK) [Gil (POL)]
Leipzig - Zenit: PALABIYIK (TUR) [Irrati (ITA)]
Ajax - Chelsea: HATEGAN (ROU) [Marciniak (POL)]
Lille - Valencia: AYTEKIN (GER) [Stegemann (GER)]

Taylor and Hategan with the marquee matches, Palabiyik makes his debut.

 

Looks like the theory of the demise of Aytekin was somewhat exaggerated!

PH

 

Selected EL appointments

Roma - Moenchengladbach: COLLUM (SCO)
Besiktas - Braga: HERNANDEZ HERNANDEZ (ESP)
Partizan - Man Utd: ESTRADA FERNANDEZ (ESP)
Getafe - Basel: BRISARD (FRA)
PSV - LASK: KAVANAGH (ENG)
Celtic - Lazio: BEBEK (CRO)
Arsenal - Vitoria: GOZUBUYUK (NED)
Frankfurt - Liege: STEFANSKI (POL)

 

This might be a question for @feyenoordsoccerfan could best answer, but what is it about the KNVB's officiating program that allows a country without a "Big 4" league to produce two absolute top-tier officials like Kuipers and Makkelie at the same time?

I get that the Champions League and the Europa League allow for referees in countries to have an increased chance to get to a top level, but to see two guys at the top of the game come from Holland is pretty impressive. I watch the Eredivisie quite a bit on ESPN+, and from what I can see it's a two-team or a three-team league with a pretty substantial drop-off after Ajax, PSV, and Feyenoord.

I've always been a Kuipers fan (maybe because it does show that you can be a good guy and still be a top referee), and Makkelie has looked good in the matches I've watched him officiate. Had Kuipers been selected to referee the World Cup final last year, I don't think anyone would have really questioned that choice. Makkelie seems to have everything needed to be a CL/Euro/World Cup referee for the next 8-10 years.

 

There is nothing about the Dutch referee program that specifically allows them to have two World class officials at the same time. It's just cyclical and really happenstance more than anything.

Prior to Kuipers I don't think the Dutch had a really elite referee for a while.

They sent a referee to the '98 World Cup and he didn't officiate a knockout match. They sent Jan Weegeref to Japan and Korea in 2002 and he had a stinker of a tournament. I think he gave out like 10 yellows in knew game between Denmark and Senegal.

The Dutch didn't have an official at Euro 2004, World Cup 2006 and World Cup 2010. They had one at Euro 2008 but he was forgettable.

Even in Kuipers first tournament, Euro 2012, he wasn't that great and didn't get a knockout match.

The point is that these things are cyclical, especially for the smaller nations, and the Dutch, with their history and success at the national team level and club, are closer to the "big four leagues" then they are to countries like Serbia, Slovenia or Switzerland which have produced elite UEFA referees the past 15 years.

Look at Switzerland. They had a run for about 15 years of having a referee who was, at minimum, the third best UEFA referee in Urs Meir and Busacca. Once Busacca retired the pipeline has dried up and they don't seem to have anyone that's going to officiate any important CL matches anytime soon.

Even the big four countries go through dip of elite officials.

After Joel Quiniou, of France, went to three straight World Cups in '86, 90, and '94 (he officiated a total of 8 World Cup matches, which was a record for a while I believe) they never really got an official of his caliber until probably Turpin. Just forgettable referees who would go to tournaments because France has to have a referee there not due to merit.

Sometimes it was so bad they couldn't even get a referee to a World Cup or Euro. They would go and do one or two group games and go home.

Even Italy, which has really been the gold standard of World Class referees for about 20+ years now looks like they'll be going through a dip in elite officials.

They've had a run of Collina, Stefano Braschi (was good enough to do a CL Final in 2000, but couldn't attend any tournaments due to Collina), Rosetti, Rizzoli and Rocchi.

Collina, Rosetti and Rizzoli were all universally considered the best referee in the world at one point in their careers. I even think Rocchi was at their level, but he just never got the assignments due to being Italy's #2 referee behind Rizzoli.

With Rocchi retiring their next elite official looks to be just a guy and not someone who you think will work the letter stages of these elite competitions.

Long story short, it's just cyclical more than anything else.

 

I almost forgot that Braschi did the CL Final in 2000. Was this the only time that referees from the same country did the CL two consecutive years, with Collina having done it in 1999?

What about Orsato? He did Man Utd - PSG and Bayern - Liverpool in the UCL knockouts last year.​

 

Anyone see this penalty given by Lahoz?

I have no idea how he is able to see this, but credit to him.

The more interesting question does it rise to a level of SFP or maybe even VC since it's just so far away from the ball? It's one thing to drag the attacker down, but that scissor motion with the leg is so unnecessary and dangerous.

A red card is probably a really hard sell, but I don't think completely unreasonable.