[2018 FIFA World Cup Russia] Korea vs Sweden 2018/06/18 [R]

Discussion in 'Korea' started by Seol Korea, Jun 17, 2018.

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Your predicted results for Korea vs Sweden.

  1. Korea will win.

    33 vote(s)
  2. Korea will draw.

    8 vote(s)
  3. Korea will lose.

    29 vote(s)
  1. aeh1991

    aeh1991 Member+

    Dec 16, 2015
    FC Augsburg
    The amount of goals are not important. He has proven that he is able to compete with European defenders. Kim isn't. That alone demans his selection before Kim, period.
    soul24rage, Shinović, DrJinh007 and 6 others repped this.
  2. Seol Korea

    Seol Korea Member+

    Jun 24, 2006
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea Republic
    I don't understand why there's even such a debate between Kim Shin-wook and Suk Hyun-jun. Suk already proved himself in Europe whereas Kim Shin-wook is a continued failure who can only prove his worth within the AFC, and to make matters worse, he failed terribly against a very poor Swedish team.
    jessypjs, MagnaSejong, Ice cube and 11 others repped this.
  3. wrecklesssoldier

    Feb 20, 2005
    There shouldn’t be a debate at all. Whoever thinks this shithead is worthy of a spot in a wc team needs to get evaluated by a neurologist.

    We’re talking about a 6’6 target “man” who has the jumping ability and strength of a toddler. Has 0 positional awareness, 0 pace, 0 defensive skills, 0 strength, 0 drive. Playing with this guy is like playing with 10 men since all the balls directed to him via long balls are all gifts to the opponent.

    He has no place in this NT and he’s lucky that some dimwit believes he’s good enough to merit a salary.
  4. Seol Korea

    Seol Korea Member+

    Jun 24, 2006
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea Republic
    Kim Shin-wook is taller than the entire Swedish team and he still couldn't win headers, nor could he draw in defenders in order to create space, he can't do shit aside from flopping on the pitch. Dzyuba is a prime example of a tall player that can utilize his height and size advantage, Kim Shin-wook on the other hand.....

    jessypjs, MagnaSejong, chook90 and 4 others repped this.
  5. jinseokyang

    jinseokyang Member+

    Feb 28, 2011
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea Republic

    I'm in the middle of watching Choi Yongsoo talk about the Sweden game. I rly like this guy and he actually validates a lot of the stuff we've been saying here. This interviewer is a little suspect (and kinda annoying, he asks the same question over and over again a couple times and goes off on tangents..) but from what I can gather...

    Q: If you were the coach (aside: any chance you could be the coach? "Fat chance"), what would you have done differently?
    A: Sweden, Mexico, and Germany. Where should we get that 1 win? Looking at our opponents the most winnable game was Sweden. As you saw there were glimpses where we looked the better team, and I don't think we needed to step back/retreat passively (is that the best translation for 물러서다?) as much as we did.
    With the frequently changes in the system/formation (구성) I wonder if the players felt awkward playing in so many different positions - the manager surely had his reasons and tactical instructions - but as a player these can be awkward - a forward for example should play to his strengths up front

    Q: Many formations have been tried, and you noticed that the players felt awkward playing in formations they're not used to?
    A: Yes

    Q: What about how the players were used?
    So this is all in hindsight, but I think it should have been clear that in terms of height we can't beat the Swedes. Before the game I expected that we would use SHM/HHC's speed on the flanks with LJS/KJC supporting 2nd line to proactively run at the Swedes and try to play off of the second ball utilizing KSW's height. The forward line in a 4-3-3 requires interchanging positions to shake the opposition and make space. But our movement was too (an adjective I can't find on naver.. 피덩적으로? 피정적으로?). In truth, what KSW is good at is receiving crosses from out wide and linking up with the other forwards, so I wish that SHM and HHC - players who are confident w/ experience playing against European defenders ..

    Q: cuts CYS off: around 15 minutes we went super defensive. Did we get pushed back or was it STY's decision?
    A: whether it was the opposition buildup or STY's decision or just an ineffective offense ... we sat deeper and deeper (gets cut off again)...

    We did have some good counterattacks but with counterattacks, the speed, the movement, the decision-making... this is something you have to work on heavily in training and show (약속된 플레이가 나와야됩니다 - "promised plays" which I assume means predetermined counterattacking patterns?) - we can counterattack, but it's not easy to execute well.

    Q: would KSW have been the sub to make early?
    A: from a height standpoint, they have multiple Kim Shinwooks! Over height we could have gone for a more direct attack, which is what we're better at. Lee Jaesung has been linking up well with KSW from the right wing, but we weren't able to bring out the strengths in KSW.

    Q: Should we have gone for the offense and gone for the win?
    A: Maybe. This is what our fans want right? Without withdrawing timidly, taking an attacking approach - even if we lose.

    Q: So what would you had done?
    A: you cant press and all out attack for 90 minutes - it's unsustainable. But for a predetermined amount of time, we could have press hard and gone after the game - and depending on the flow of the game, we could have sat back at other times. Our 15 minutes was good - we could've earned in good positions, made good chances - but i wonder if our defensive line went deep too early.

    Q: So if you were coach would have asked our players to continuously press forward? (I told you this guy was horribly repetitive)
    A: Easier said in hindsight, but if we were in control early on we should have kept hammering at the defense trying to create chances until a goal comes out. We did not need to withdraw so much on our own. Again we can't use this approach for 90 minutes, but we should have at least tried until we deem it didn't work

    Q: The GK
    A: I was half concerned half hopeful. But wow, his strengths really shone through.

    Q: Why concern?
    A: I had some worry about his aerial ability (he's a little on the shorter side), but that turned out to not be a problem.
    ((what is up with korean coaches and height lol))

    Q: Again, this is all in hindsight - but about Mexico..
    A: So far of the World Cup games, the Germany-Mexico game was one of the best ones. I expected Germany to win comfortably by 1 or 2 goals but wow football... the fighter mentality of all 11 Mexican players and their collective pressing, extra running, intelligent play...
    Can Mexico show the same from against us? Football is relative. If we prepare well and unnerve them ... they have a tendency to get overheated/overexcited at times. So if we be physical to the point of not getting cards and frustrate them to the best of our ability... that being said Mexico is by no means an easy opponent. But we did not lose against Sweden convincingly or due to a lack of skill - we concede from a PK - if the players find their confidence it could be possible.

    Q: what would you do against Mexico?
    A: If it was me... I wonder if we got the tactics flipped (Sweden v. Mexico). The Mexican players are faster but smaller than us, so maybe from set pieces and crosses we could have used our aerial advantage and maybe Kim Shinwook..

    Q: So we should have used Kim Shinwook against Mexico not against Sweden
    A: I wonder if that would have been more appropriate

    Q: So should we go all out attack against Mexico? (I'm rly exasperated by this guy's qustions right now)
    A: It's not so black and white. Sure we can start out guns blazing, but football is all about the flow (흐름 - idk if flow's the best word). We can go forward at times but also find the right times to sit back if it's not working and defend and when we get a good rhythm going we can go back to attacking... you have to read the game like this.

    Q: But as our overall tactical approach?
    A: Overall, I wish we wouldn't passively retreat / step back (물러서다 again lol). If we sit back because we're outclassed that's one thing but we shouldn't start out that way. Our players have ability. We have to prepare with the mentality of winning. And accept nothing less.
  6. naopon

    naopon Member+

    Jan 2, 2007
    Kawasaki Frontale
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    As an extremely bored neutral it was hard to escape the sense that Shin Tae-Yong was already playing damage control against the most manageable opponent in the group. There's nothing wrong with sitting deep or deploying players to defend against aerial threats...but how do you score when you not only park the bus, but your lone striker is perhaps the slowest player in the tournament? If you want to avoid getting beaten around by Berg and Toivonen (which still happened in open play), there are other ways to get there, one would think.

    I get it, the circumstances are pretty challenging. Many of the core vets are already past their middling peaks, others struggle to distinguish themselves even in Japan/China/Korea, and it showed while barely crawling across the finish line in qualifying. A bunch of untimely injuries along with former stalwarts' careers spinning into irrelevance.

    But...yeah. The coach had the better part of a year to prep for this match, he should have had a more plausible plan than ZOMG THE TOWERING WHITES ARE HERE CALL TITAN TO SAVE US.
    takeuchi repped this.
  7. jessypjs

    jessypjs Member+

    May 3, 2010
    AS Monaco FC
    Nat'l Team:
    The idea was to use KSW as a target man for SHM and HHC. He was supposed to win the ball in the air and create spaces for the wingers (who are faster) and not make vertical fast run.
    But it didn't work, it is as if we played with no striker the whole game. Imo, SHJ would have been way more useful but everybody already knows that, excepted STY.
  8. Hodori

    Hodori BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Aug 12, 2010
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea Republic
    Mistake 1 - starting KSW
    Mistake 2 - not substituting KSW at HT

    KSW was so terrible that Sweden had Granqvist play a libero role after the first 15 minutes. We had a slow, lumbering Swedish CB making runs into the box taking shots at goal. Even when Granqvist was caught out way too far up the pitch, we could do nothing on the counter b/c KSW would just stand there. Pathetic.
  9. toohyper

    toohyper BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Mar 23, 2004
    Gwangju FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea Republic
    Can you shut up with the political crap? We have a non-soccer related sub-thread for that
  10. takeuchi

    takeuchi Member+

    Jan 20, 2013
    Liverpool FC
    actually, this wasn't even the idea or plan for Kim SW in the 1st half. he was simply in the starting XI to match the height of Swedish players. Shin TY.. at least according to him.. wanted to counter in 2nd half once they "defend" & adjust to the game in 1st half.

    obviously didn't work out & even after the goal by Sweden.. Shin TY didn't bother to make any changes.

    on the Suk HJ argument, while he is certainly an improvement over Kim SW.. he isn't a good "target FW" tbh. good on the counter w/ open space in front to exploit but if he is tasked to be the "focal" point, to hold up the ball.. link up.. and so forth, again.. not the ideal player.
  11. jsk14

    jsk14 Member+

    Mar 2, 2010
    FC Girondins de Bordeaux
    Nat'l Team:
    If only one of our striker prospects actually panned out...looking at you Park Ju-young, Kim Hyun, Lee Jong-ho, Ji Dong-won, Kim Dong-sub, Hwang Ui-jo, etc. etc. etc. etc.
  12. Fector

    Fector Member

    Jeonbuk FC
    Jun 6, 2017
    Shut up.
    toohyper and sac517 repped this.
  13. toohyper

    toohyper BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Mar 23, 2004
    Gwangju FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea Republic
    Damn, you got me good.
  14. toohyper

    toohyper BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Mar 23, 2004
    Gwangju FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea Republic
    Others, sure. But Park Ju Young gave us at least 1 good World Cup performance. Can't hate him for that. Others absolutely underwhelming, tho I never rated all of those guys you mentioned, even Ji Dong Won who is about as average of a player as there is out there.
  15. doraemon

    doraemon Member+

    Jan 9, 2010
    I see you just had to sneak that passive aggressive diss in there, as Japanese people love to do, but what you're saying isn't quite accurate. There are plenty of decent players in the Korean talent pool right now - best Asian player/FW, one of the best Asian CMs, good productive Europe-based players like Kwon, Hwang, Suk, as well as a number of veterans playing well in Asia. It's the injuries to 5 potential starting players and several other bench players that has fcked this team over. And then there are the years of mismanagement on top of that.

    I'm not really worried about Korea in terms of producing talent - the team made it to the WC in spite of being managed by some trash-level managers. What's worrying is the fact that we screwed up 8 years of WC preparation for two consecutive cups. That's what scares me.
  16. naopon

    naopon Member+

    Jan 2, 2007
    Kawasaki Frontale
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm not sure what was "passive aggressive" about what I said, but how does Kwon CH - who would be great to have if not for his unfortunate injury - refute anything? My point was mainly that many of Korea's established vets are either a step slower than their respective peaks (while still quite competent) or had bad club situations knock them out of contention. It only highlights that the large drop-off when you get to the experienced depth players playing in Asia, and that the younger attackers like Lee SW or Hwang HC might be a year or two away from really carrying the senior team. The manager choices have been laughable but I'd say there are issues beyond that in the player pool.
    zdrstvte and killaorca repped this.
  17. killaorca

    killaorca Red Card

    AFC Ajax
    May 11, 2010
    Pacific Ocean
    RSC Anderlecht
    Yeah there's a huge question mark for players that came out after the 2012 olympic team generation. Our core generation is burnt out now and the generation that came after just aren't good enough. There's only Son Heungmin, Kwon Changhoon, Lee Jaesung, and Hwang Heechan. We didn't produce enough quality players within that generation. They're mediocre even in Asian standard.
    We have some promising players that are coming up but most of them aren't even pros yet. They'll have a hard time carrying this team through our next WC qualifer campaign.
  18. Rob_Brighton

    Rob_Brighton Red Card

    Nov 21, 2015
    Southampton FC
    I wonder what the reaction in Korea would be if they found out their honorary Korean citizen and former manager provided his expertise to Mexico and this information helped Mexico thump Korea.
    Red_Beans repped this.
  19. doraemon

    doraemon Member+

    Jan 9, 2010
    You know there was a bit of snark in how you describe these players as being past their "middling" peaks, and how other players are struggling across Asia (which isn't really true) and how our lack of talent was put on display during the qualifiers. Whatever, every sports fan has the right to talk shit, especially during the WC.

    I brought up the young players in Europe because I thought you were talking about the squad as a whole rather than our vets.

    Regardless, we had enough vets playing well this season before we lost a few to injuries and a few others were inexplicably not selected to the final squad. The only one who really stands out in terms of having gone irrevocably downhill is LCY.
  20. wetcrispy

    wetcrispy Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jul 5, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea Republic
    if STY had only made the right adjustments at HT, we could've gotten a win. just LSW on for KSW could've gotten us 3 points.

  21. extremegamer

    extremegamer Member

    Jun 28, 2007
    Well, I'm actually alright with the 0-1 loss.

    Think about it. In almost any game, Korea's defense is so bad that the opposition almost always seems like they'll score. Against a respectable team, Korea can potentially lose by multiple goals and get humiliated.

    STY's strategy was very clear. Allow the team to be offensive but remain defensive almost 80% of the time. I think STY really wanted a win and there were some good moments for the KNT to score. But if he allowed the team to spend more time attacking, while it would provide for good entertainment, there is no good assurance that the team could finish their chances and they aren't good at finishing. What good is getting more shots on target if you can't finish and you are letting the other team have more counterattacks against your weak defense? Don't you remember many of the past games where Korea dominated but was still held or beaten?

    Then again, if the KNT were to win 3 points, this was the game to win it. I'm also left wondering 'what if'? What if the KNT played more aggressively? There were some moments when they almost scored and looked like the better team. Korea could have won but it might have been akin to rolling a dice. It was a narrow loss, one that might not undermine confidence for the next two games. Imagine going into the next two games after getting killed by something like 1-4?

    I'm not a STY fan but he is coaching a bad team in a tough group. He did what he had to do to save face for the team. I expect the next two games to be similar. More risk management while letting the team take a few chances here and there. I expect a loss or a draw for the next two games. And if KNT does actually get a win, it will be by a margin of one goal while they can potentially lose games by a wider margin. Then again, I'm bad at predicting. I predicted a 0-0 for the first game.
  22. extremegamer

    extremegamer Member

    Jun 28, 2007
    I wish Korea could be more superficial, selfish, and rude like other countries.

    From a neutral perspective, he is no longer associated with Korea and does not owe any duty to them. Why should he continue being loyal? He was just doing his job and any coach would want WC success regardless of country. Why should Korea continue being loyal to him? Korea doesn't owe him anything and vice versa. What is the deal with playing with respect and honor when you can get better results by diving and grassrolling to your advantage?
  23. The Hyphen

    The Hyphen Member+

    Jun 29, 2014
    If he had ANY wits about him or ANY guts within him, he'd go out swinging.

    I will dislike him even more if he decides to go out with a friggen whimper. Im serious the guy should just go balls to the wall. If he did this, it would endear him better to the fans. The worst thing he could do right now is cower.
  24. extremegamer

    extremegamer Member

    Jun 28, 2007
    So you want to return to the past where the KNT would often dominate possession ( maybe like ~55-45) and have more shots on target but still concedes and loses? I guess that's possible but, again, no one on the team can finish and the defense is really poor. And I haven't even talked about the poor passes and crosses yet. I don't think the sentiment is any better if the KNT 'appears' like a good team at the expense of giving up multiple goals.
  25. CoreaBafana

    CoreaBafana Member

    Apr 25, 2010
    Cerro Porteno
    So you're advocating a defeatist, "let's not get embarrassed" (paraphrasing), type philosophy for the games, where one of the main objectives is to not lose by too many goals? Excuse me, this is an honest question but it may not quite sound like it. Are you f'd in the head?

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