2017 WNY Flash

Discussion in 'Western New York Flash' started by BlueCrimson, Dec 6, 2016.

  1. jeffconn

    jeffconn Member

    Jul 25, 2004
    Norfolk, VA, USA
    Club:
    Hampton Roads Piranhas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm sure the players will LOVE going to North Carolina, what with the boycott and all.
    Pass the popcorn.
     
  2. CoachJon

    CoachJon Member+

    Feb 1, 2006
    Rochester, NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm sure you have read that the new North Carolina governor, Roy Cooper, who was at today's press conference, is actievely working to get HB2 repealed.
     
  3. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    There are bigots and racists everywhere.
     
  4. msilverstein47

    msilverstein47 Member+

    Jan 11, 1999
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    http://www.socceramerica.com/articl...outs-carolina-owners-coura.html?edition=16666

    All Flash players are now the property of the Courage. NCFC general manager Curt Johnson will jump right into the fray when he attends the 2017 NWSL College Draft in Los Angeles.

    No decision has been made on a coach. Paul Riley coached the Flash to its first NWSL championship in 2016. It previously won W-League, WPS and WPSL Elite in a nine-year run that began in Buffalo.
     
  5. CoachJon

    CoachJon Member+

    Feb 1, 2006
    Rochester, NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I want to share some of my thoughts and memories about the Flash.

    Even without the move to NC, re-capturing the 2016 season would be as hard as catching lightning in a bottle.

    My favorite sentence in the Fourfourtwo article – warmed the cockles of my heart:

    The Western New York Flash franchise is the most decorated in professional women’s soccer in the United States, having won championships in four different leagues.

    Some favorites - randomly:

    · Sahlen’s ham steaks were passed out to all the fans from a refrigerator truck as they left the stadium after the first home game in 2011.

    · I got to see Marta play in person on a regular basis. And experienced the Marta-Sinclair magic connection.

    · I always said I wanted to have Christine on the Flash rather than Abby.

    · Ali Riley made a video interviewing Christine Sinclair about the mask she wore after breaking her nose, and then tried it on after Christine left the room.

    · In 2011, prior to having an Autograph Alley, the fans were invited onto the field after the games to chat with players.

    · McCall Zerboni had a very entertaining video blog called Mondays with McCall.

    · Ali Riley played left fullback right from a coaching textbook, every minute, every game, and she had funnier videos than McCall.

    · Flash’s Sam Kerr carried Sky Blue’s Caitlin Foord piggyback style to the locker room after Foord’s injury.

    · The 15,000 fan Abby game was great to be a part of and was a great match, with both keepers making more than one all-world save.

    · Brittany Cameron was the team cheerleader 2011-2012 and had a fantastic season in goal in 2012, foreshadowing her awesome work for Sky Blue.

    · I got to see Alex Morgan in person as a rookie and became convinced she was tough as nails and the hype was not just hype.

    · In 2012, I became a fan of Tori Huster, Stephanie Ochs, and a huge fan of Katy Frierson/Freels.

    · Autograph Alley notes

    o I hung around for Autograph Alley and can’t say enough about how marvelous these young women are with their fans, of all ages. They did not rush through, and chatted, and signed, and took pictures, and made lots of kids very happy.​

    o Jasmyne Spencer was last through the line. She is a very small person. She was carrying 3 big parkas with two arms in front of her. She would walk four steps, put the parkas down, sign, chat, and photo, pick up the parkas, walk another five steps and repeat.​

    o After the 2-0 Portland loss, a couple of girls had Britt Eckerstrom laughing with them – she has great dimples when she smiles.​

    o Autograph Alley Chanting for Julie Johnston almost as loud as they used to chant “Abby.”​

    o A teenage girl burst into tears when Hope Solo came up to sign for her and Hope said, “Oh Honey, I should be the one crying after letting in those goals."​

    · Coach Nadine Angerer with her Portland team in ROC: Nadine Angerer must be the whole team’s big sister and head cheerleader and she seems to be really enjoying her role.

    · Courtney Niemiec’s ponytail rivals Julie Johnston’s; who has, IMO, the best ponytail in all of Woso.

    · Toni Pressley’s left footed bomb in the last seconds of extra time hitting the bottom of the crossbar and going in to equalize shut my mouth – I was not a fan of her skill set.

    · Winning the 2012 championship in KFTPM 4-2, even though McCall didn’t make hers was great fun.

    · Watching Angela Salem play was a pleasure.

    · I enjoyed seeing Alex Sahlen get better and better and deserving that starting spot at right fullback.

    · Ashlyn Harris’ save in KFTPM was joyful.

    · In the 2013 Final, Tobin Heath’s free kick kill shot was heart breaking and won the game. Sinclair’s later goal was easy pickings (for her) because the whole Flash team was pushing up to score the equalizer. In my head it will always be a 1-0 game.

    · Sam Mewis did 1-on-1 ball work with the only older boy at her Soccer Without Borders clinic. Later I saw her do some of the same ball skills during games.

    · Sabs D’Angelo was in charge of the youngest age group at Mewis’ clinic –she has a happy spirit.

    · Of course, pretty much the whole 2016 season was great, especially McDonald and Williams.

    · Jess McDonald tweeted that the Flash were her only pro teammates that gave her a Mother’s Day card.

    · Watching Lynn Williams run/fly/float at full speed was like seeing poetry in motion. It just isn’t the same on TV.

    · I really enjoyed the pre-season indoor games at Sahlen’s Sports Park. Getting to stand a couple of yards from the touchline at mid field was awesome.


    THANK YOU TO JOE AND ALEX SAHLEN FOR THE GREAT TIMES!


    “So long; and thanks for all the Fish!”
     
  6. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
  7. cpthomas

    cpthomas BigSoccer Supporter

    Portland Thorns
    United States
    Jan 10, 2008
    Portland, Oregon
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Great tribute, CoachJon, I sure hope you'll stick around.

    You might have a thought on what Sahlen said in his statement about the WNY area not being able to provide the level of support that the NWSL was looking for. I read what he said as saying the fan market just wasn't big enough. From the beginning, I had been hopeful that the WNY area would be a good fan market as the demographics seemed right to me and there was not the competition from other big league sports that you get in a lot of bigger cities. Do you think the market just wasn't big enough, that the Flash marketing wasn't as good as it could have been, that the market potential wasn't enough to justify a bigger Flash marketing program, ...? Or was Sahlen saying that what the league now is looking for isn't what he got into pro WoSo for? Or ...?

    I'm very happy for Carolina to have a team, as that is one of my other early market pick areas, but I still find it hard to accept that WNY isn't a better potential market than Sahlen appears to indicate.
     
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  8. CoachJon

    CoachJon Member+

    Feb 1, 2006
    Rochester, NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    @cpthomas Here's my august 2015 rant:

    http://www.democratandchronicle.com...nes-trade-wny-flash-jeff-diveronica/30759931/

    DiVeronica “The Flash are far from perfect. They need help. They don't spend enough money advertising and marketing their club or players, or even opposing stars, so fans are aware of when their next match is.”

    Lines: "This is our fifth year in the market, Devo," Lines told me this preseason when I asked why, after losing Wambach, the club had done so little advertising. "People know who we are."

    DiVeronica: “Not really. Soccer fans know. Not casual fans, the ones who made World Cup TV ratings historic for women's soccer.

    Me: And Devo speaks the truth.


    Lines: "People know who we are."

    Me:

    Mr. Lines, don’t you think the Marketing Departments at McDonalds or GEICO or Subaru could say the same thing about their products? Why do you think THEY advertise all the time? Are you smarter than they are? THEY surely aren’t 2500-3000 fans per game short of break-even on the bottom line. Any promotions the Flash have done this year could attract no one that doesn’t follow WNY on Twitter or regularly visit the web site, and the promotions were therefore ineffective.

    I do give Flash credit for buying commercial time on Fox during World Cup games, but frankly the commercial was terrible. Rochester has a local sole-proprietor Optometrist that makes better commercials. You can’t survive by using Twitter and your Web page as your only advertising outlets. I don’t count “Soccer is a Kick in the Grass” on radio, because it has zero audience. The Flash need to BUY ADVERTISING at the Democrat and Chronicle – particularly on its Web Site and buy advertising on local drive-time radio. You need the 21-30 year old “pub crowd” to buy tickets and your marketing needs to be directed to them. You need folks to choose WNY Flash soccer over Red Wings baseball when the idea: “Let’s go to a game tonight” is hatched. The Red Wings out-draw the Flash every time there are home games at the same time – by a lot. The Flash have two Sports Management MBA’s in in the front office; they need to put their education to work in the real world. And they need the resources to do it. {by 2016, neither was on the staff and Rich Randall took over as GM}

    Mr. Lines, to be blunt, you should stick to putting a winning team on the field and leave the business end of things to the folks who are more qualified by experience and training.
     
  9. holden

    holden Member+

    Dundee FC, Yeovil Town LFC, Girondins de Bordeaux
    Oct 20, 2009
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    Dundee FC
    #34 holden, Jan 10, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2017
    If there is a problem with the WNY market, it's that it's a split market. They've got 1,082,284 in the Rochester metro area and 1,134,210 in the Buffalo metro area. If you combined the two you've got a metro area just a bit smaller than Portland (which has 2,389,228). So when combined they are a decent size, just the problem is that they are about an hour apart (Philadelphia and NYC are about an hour apart as well... just for reference of the distance). And if you're going to include Buffalo in that market, then they do have 2 of the big 4 sports with a NFL and a NHL team (but none operate during the summer). Portland on the other hand has only one of the big 4, an NBA team. If you limit it to just Rochester, then sure there are none of the big 4 to compete with, but then it's also the smallest metro area of any of the other NWSL teams (well if you count SBFC as being in the NYC metro area...). That said, the Raleigh-Durham metro area is only slightly larger than Rochester with 1,273,568 people and they do have a big 4 team in the NHL. So I'm not so sure it's much of an improvement marketwise over Rochester.

    So tl;dr, I don't think the WNY market alone was really the problem. ;)
     
  10. CoachJon

    CoachJon Member+

    Feb 1, 2006
    Rochester, NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #35 CoachJon, Jan 10, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2017
    I have more.
    I put the following together in 2014. Folks may be interested in the comparison between Rochester and Portland sports attendance at the end.

    FACT SHEET

    Sunday May 11, 2014 – Mother’s Day
    Flash attendance: 3,107 fans. Why not 5,000+ on a gorgeous day? Lilac Festival!​

    Saturday May 31, 2014
    Flash attendance: 3,555 fans. Rochester Knight Hawks major indoor lacrosse team won it’s third straight championship at home – attendance 9,200. The Rochester Red Wings were also home tonight – 7,200 fans.​

    Saturday July 12, 2014
    Flash: 3,134 fans, Rochester Red Wings: 8,841 fans.​

    Friday July 25, 2014 - Prices and Attendance
    • Flash: $35.25, 24.60, $19.10 (plus $3.00 Ticketmaster if bought there) 3,081 fans.
    • Downtown stadium, limited parking.
    • Red Wings $11.00, $9.50, $7.00 (plus $3.00 Ticketmaster if bought there) 10,323 fans.
    • Nearby downtown stadium, good parking, better neighborhood.
    • Bills Training Camp Night Practice: Free (a ticket needs to be obtained in advance) 2,500+ fans
    • Suburban college campus, limited parking.
    Additional Competition in Rochester
    USL Pro Rochester Rhinos adult tickets are $24.60, $22.10, $17.10, and $14.10 (Add $3.00 for Ticketmaster). Youth tickets are $3.00 cheaper. The Rhinos also have a program for Youth Soccer team players and coaches that allow tickets to be purchased even cheaper. Rhinos play at Sahlen's Stadium, just like the Flash. They average roughly 5,000 fans.​

    Major Lacrosse League Rattlers, who are now in first place. They also play at Sahlen's Stadium. Tickets at the box office are $25, $20, and $15. The Rattlers are averaging 3,649 fans for 7 games so far this summer.​

    Rochester vs. Portland

    So on the July 25-27 weekend in Rochester for my outdoor spectator sports entertainment dollar, I had a choice of the Flash (Fri), Bills (Fri & Sat), Rhinos (Sun), Red Wings (Fri, Sat, & Sun), and/or Rattlers (Sat). My estimated sports total attendance for the weekend is about 38,000 +/-.

    During the weekend of July 18-20, Portland had the Thorns (Fri) and Timbers (Sun) -total 35,197; plus on Friday: 4,338 for the Hillsboro Hops Single A baseball team for a total of 39,535.

    Compared to the Thorns, it is clear the Flash are in a highly competitive environment to get fans in the seats in Rochester. And it is clear to me that there is a market for the Flash; they just failed to tap into it.
     
  11. CoachJon

    CoachJon Member+

    Feb 1, 2006
    Rochester, NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What's just as good as kittens or puppies?





     
  12. Gilmoy

    Gilmoy Member+

    Jun 14, 2005
    Pullman, Washington
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  13. cpthomas

    cpthomas BigSoccer Supporter

    Portland Thorns
    United States
    Jan 10, 2008
    Portland, Oregon
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Perhaps a better comparison, on advertising, than McDonalds, GEICO, or Subaru would be the Thorns. They do a great deal of advertising, soliciting ticket purchases, building of team good will, etc. Even though it's Portland, a whole lot of time, effort, and $$ goes into attracting fans for both the Thorns and the Timbers.

    Maybe the Sahlens weren't really interested in the business end of a highly successful pro sports enterprise -- maybe, rather, it was more interest in simply having a team than having a business franchise. If so, no criticism on my part, but the NWSL simply was becoming something different than what they got into in the first place.
     
  14. CoachJon

    CoachJon Member+

    Feb 1, 2006
    Rochester, NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You are wrong about using the Thorns as an example. No one outside Portland (about 318 million of us) has a clue as to how much advertising the Thorns do. People outside Portland do know about McDonald's. GEICO. and Subaru advertising. My point was that even if 'people know who you are,' you still need to advertise. I was not trying to give examples of other soccer teams that did it better.
     
  15. cpthomas

    cpthomas BigSoccer Supporter

    Portland Thorns
    United States
    Jan 10, 2008
    Portland, Oregon
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Sorry, my only point was that outside Portland, people think all Portlanders know who the Thorns are. The Thorns themselves don't buy that. Thus they advertise. And, of course, your references to McDonald's, GEICO, and Subaru are correct.

    But also, my other point is something about which I wonder -- I don't know -- which is whether the Sahlens got into pro WoSo with one thing in mind and it turned into something else. I've wondered this about a couple of franchise "owners," and I've wondered about what would happen if owners got into it with one set of expectations and now find that what they're into is different. In other words, is pro WoSo evolving into something different and, if so, are current owners able and/or willing and/or interested in adapting? I make no value judgment on owners whatever their answers to these kinds of questions, it's really up to them personally, but I think it's an area worthy of some discussion. And, I value your opinions on questions like this -- as I would value MRAD's, too, as a long time Chicago fan, who's owners may have made a different decision. Although, maybe the questions come too soon after this sudden development.

    More than anything, I want professional women's soccer to succeed -- at a very high level -- in this country. Thus my questions.
     
  16. CoachJon

    CoachJon Member+

    Feb 1, 2006
    Rochester, NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    More than anything, I want professional women's soccer to succeed -- at a very high level -- in this country.
    Hear! Hear! This post is long-winded, so I decided to move the conclusion to the top for those who only want to skim.

    To conclude: Looking at the Big Picture, philosophically, an NWSL franchise should have ownership groups that are diversified, should have qualified front office staff, and should have control over a suitable venue.

    First, @cpthomas, thanks, I now appreciate better that you are approaching this philosophically. Forgive me, but I get extremely irritated with those (and I think there are many) who believe that Joe Sahlen bought a team for his little princess to play on and now that she is done with the toy, it gets sold on Craigslist. I firmly believe that from the time the Flash joined the WPS through nearly all of 2016, the Sahlens were committed to the long term success of the franchise.

    I believe that if they knew they were going to fold up shop, they would not have pursued Paul Riley so hard. I understand that as recently as 2-3 weeks ago, the Sahlens requested that Kayla Kent relocate from Rochester to Buffalo, which is evidence that the deal with Malik gelled very quickly.

    I will say, philosophically, that perhaps the Flash was too much a family business, so it did not have the diversified leadership to be sustainable in the long term. I will never doubt that the commitment to the long term did exist, right up until things changed. The following paragraphs address the lack of diversified leadership.

    I believe, as pointed out in my rants above, that this family business failed in understanding how to capture their Market, and failed to realize what they didn't know how to do, and even when they did realize it, they initially hired the wrong people to do it. I'll get personal here. I had a few conversations with a couple of the front office folks not named Sahlen or Lines in 2014-2015. As one whole spent 30 years in the consulting engineering business, I concluded that they were wet behind the ears, self-important, narrow minded, and incompetent.

    I think we can agree that over 2014 and 2015, Aaran Lines proved he did not have the skills to run the Pro Soccer team business. IMO, after failing in 2014-2015, they finally found the right business guy in Rich Randall. After the awful Wambach / Lloyd years, Lines did find the right guys for the soccer side of the business (the product) in Naimo and Riley.

    In the fall of 2016, the Sahlen's Packing Co. market expanded to 1,100 Publix Super Markets in Florida, Georgia, Alabama, South Carolina, North Carolina and Tennessee. [Which perhaps explains why part of the deal with Malik included some form of continuing sponsorship]. They also added a number of product lines to the Kroger stores in Ohio. Business expansion needs attention from ownership. I also read a rumor that the Packing Co. is currently in negotiations for a major merger or acquisition.

    And, as they say, Life Happens. From her blog, I understand Alex Sahlen, in late March/early April 2016, found out the baby she was carrying could have a very serious birth defect, and potentially would not survive until birth - - everything did turn out OK and Max was born quite healthy via C-section in September, which made for a very dicey six-seven months. ...too much information, I suppose... but the point is that things are way more complicated than people think. And it is further evidence that since Alex has become a Mom, she no longer has the ability to run both the pro team and the Academy.

    The venue was also a problem. The fact that the City of Rochester made the deal to run the Stadium* with the Dworkins and not the Sahlens during the 2015-16 off season was a major part of the changed situation for the Flash. I understand the Sahlens were this close || to making the stadium deal with the City and moving the whole pro operation to Rochester, when the USL intervened and brought the Dworkins to the table.
    *In one of my recent posts I wrote that the Dwokins own the stadium. They do not; they are the sole operator.

    I believe this situation widened the gap between the Flash and the City and certainly between the Flash and the Rhinos to beyond repair. Based on rumor, in the aftermath of the sale, I understand the Sahlens decided they were not going back to Rochester in 2017.

    It turned out that the lack of suitable venue in Buffalo, which was a problem from the very beginning, turned out to be a major factor accelerating the decision to sell. I also think that the NWSL standards for venues has ratcheted up over the last few years., which goes to cphomas’ suggestion that everything owners need to commit to do to support a team in this league has changed and increased in magnitude since 2013.

    There are venues in Buffalo as good as (for example) Benedictine or the facility FCKC occupied for a couple of years, but their availability may not have existed for the Flash. Also, I believe permanent gridiron lines are no longer acceptable to the league. Based on rumor, I understand the Sahlens did propose a Buffalo venue to the league for 2017, but were turned down.

    So I do not think the Sahlens just gave up or even shopped to the highest bidder. I do think that Malik made the right offer at the right time for the soccer business.
     
  17. cpthomas

    cpthomas BigSoccer Supporter

    Portland Thorns
    United States
    Jan 10, 2008
    Portland, Oregon
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Thanks, CoachJon, for all the details, definitely not too much. It shows how complicated things can be and how important knowledge is as compared to conjecture. (My "political" statement for this week.)

    It also leaves the possibility that upstate New York could again, under the right circumstances, be a viable area for a professional WoSo (at the highest level) team, which is something I wasn't yet ready to give up on.

    If you're ever out here in Ecotopia during the right time of year, let me know. We might be able to make a game at Providence Park.
     
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  18. CoachJon

    CoachJon Member+

    Feb 1, 2006
    Rochester, NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Regarding another team, I am hoping that the Sahlens will re-start the Buffalo Flash for the United Women's Soccer League relatively soon to enhance the Flash Academy and keep it rated highly. After the massive cash bleed-out for supporting the WNY Flash over the years is staunched, they may even have enough money to build their own, UWS-level venue.

    Thanks for the invitation! Beware, I may just take you up on it.:)
     
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  19. SiberianThunderT

    Sep 21, 2008
    DC
    Club:
    Saint Louis Athletica
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
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  20. SiberianThunderT

    Sep 21, 2008
    DC
    Club:
    Saint Louis Athletica
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    ...well, there obviously wasn't much to say about last year. X-D The Flash had a rough landing in UWS, only getting 14pts from 10 games and finishing a distant 5th in the East conference.

    However, I revive this thread (it seemed pointless to create a new one?) to point out that the Flash are revamped this year and out to a 2-0 start! I think? They beat the Long Island Rough Riders 3-1 yesterday and either already played today's match against the NY Surf or were awarded a 3-0 forfeit win...
     
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  21. SiberianThunderT

    Sep 21, 2008
    DC
    Club:
    Saint Louis Athletica
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    One more quick little note on WNY's UWS adventures:
    2017 was a poor season for them, but they're currently 5-4 in 2018 and 2nd in the UWS East, sitting in postseason position with one game left to play:
    https://www.uwssoccer.com/news_article/show/932863
    A win next week qualifies them for the East Conference Championship game, but a draw opens the door for three other teams to pass them and a loss eliminates them.
     
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