I don't know how much you know about Japanese style of soccer but there were an interview with Mike Havenaar on the BBC world football about Japan never really believe in developing in strikers, the Japanese squad play football as a collective unit and believe that the striker doesn't have to score the goal, anyone on the team can score. There isn't much important place on being a striker in Japanese football.
Rule may state that but it's REALLY rare you want to use your hand ... Most of the time the call happens when an advantage is taken from the handball and that is the good interpretation but let's not be bitter, bad calls happen.
Why are so many people bitching about stupid things such as random referee decisions and not focussing on the bigger picture as far as the development of the team is concerned?
I guess because we took a step backward with the 0-top formation and now we have nothing useful to discuss about development.
It was an excellent wake up call for both players and our italian coach. What happened was nothing new. We saw that against Uzbekistan during the qualifiers...even Iraq exposed this terrible defense we have. Only Zac thinks it´s ok. We leave acres of space in defense, since there´s no "recomposition" from our midfielders and every single counter is scary as hell. Again, this is not the first time...far from it. To play all guns blazing against the Brazilian attacking force? Really? Kagawa mentioned that Japan needed to face tougher teams with more attitude...it´s fine... but we are not there yet. We need to improve a lot and that game was a good thermometer. The only reason we had a good WC 2010 was realizing that against stronger teams, we need to defend and play compact. We´re going back to the "tiki taka nowhere" that Japan used to play during Osim era...just passing passing passing without real penetration nor even kicking. Like Akitod said, we need to focus on the bigger picture since we have "only" 2 years to fix the major problems.
I actually watch Japanese soccer when I can. Although I'm a KNT diehard, I also hope Japan does well to raise the profile of Asian football. However, the argument I made was about the comparison of the Japanese and Spanish National Teams even without a striker. The two just don't play the same in my opinion. Although, if Japan did have a striker with form and confidence, they would indeed be formidable for any team to face. Japan's versatility would be greatly increased on the counter attack if there was a player who could poach the goals and make opposing teams pay for being greedy. Just my two cents.
I agree, but the big picture says that - also with these problems to fix - we could easily consider ourselves in the first 10-15 teams of the world. At least, i think so. But you're right, that's no excuse for not fixing what is wrong.
He should develop players Yeah, but that's not his work. Players could create themselves through the NT but NT can't create players. That's their everyday work, not schemes of taking CK they could do in three days. Start blaming Zaccheroni for the fact that Japanese football haven't created any decent strikers throught it's entire history. The best Japanese strikers end their serious 'careers' before they're turning 20 due to injuries lately... NT coach unfortunately can't work in the perfect conditions.
Ok now that I have time to not just write negative one liners, for anyone who cares here is my perspective on the entire game/team and individuals. Japan started with a bit different line up, the change in the system was Honda playing at top. The idea was, Honda drops deep to hold up the ball and than tries to link passes to the incoming offensive midfielders most of all Kagawa. The concept was imo a good one. Where I saw the problem was the following. As Japan switched to attack the 2 full backs Uchida and Nagatomo would add the width through flanks in attacking sense that was well done and allowed Kiyotake and Kagawa more space to work with, so sending ball toward the left or right wing and start from there was a frequency. The problem appeared, when a ball was misplaced or intercepted. As soon as that happened Japan got really exposed with basically central defenders and perhaps defensive midfielder (Hasebe) left to cover for the counter. Now since Brazil leaves Neymar, Oscar and Hulk a bit forward, this allows for a speedy break, together with Kaka. And this is where I think the problem occurred. Both side backs were far to often participating in the offensive duties. Normally its ok, because teams would put most of their players behind the ball. But with Brazil who plays to counter attack like this, that's risky. Now the funny thing, one would say is... 1. goal came from a sloppy clearance of the ball and like football experts like to say nothing... Well it looked like that. However when we take a closer look at the goal, we can see that the only reason the goal was scored and the chance was even created was because of POSITIONING of Makoto Hasebe. When you are watching the game as a fan those things are missed since you are watching it differently but once you analyze them it is crystal clear. Take a look at the first goal and stop and check the positioning of our captain at the time of the pass (which Uchida so poorly cleared...) As a result the Brazilian guy even gets the ball and later on Endo covers for Hasebe by closing him down but leaving his position exposed the pass towards Paulinho happens and the goal is scored... 2nd goal. Its a typical Brazil counter attack: Kaka + Oscar+Neymar + Hulk and this time around even Adriano joins in... Japanese back four are moving away from the incoming Brazlian players and do not mantain the high line (I suspect the reason is speed and they do not want to leave space for the fast Brazilian forwards...fair enough) but as a result the entire line gets streched and a rather poor ball comes from the flank towards Kaka. And this ball should have been easily cleared by Konno which is clear when you look at the goal again...however not only he doesn't do it... he misses the entire ball falls down and the result is the dodgy penalty... 3rd goal You would say luck right? I mean the corner comes from a "lucky" bounce and than the bounce for goal...however the problematic thing about this goal is well two things really 1. look at the positioning of the players when the corner is taken - 4 Brazlians - 7 Japanese at the back post there are 2 Brazlian guys and...yeah 2 Japanese guys... And the second thing? The guy covering one of those at the back post is mr Nagatomo and as the ball is dropping...Nagatomo misses the entire ball and it falls down to Neymar which results in you know the rest... P.S. Neymar totally mishit the ball also lol 4th and final goal I will say fourth goal comes when their minds are totally off the game already. Yoshida miss pass and goal... The thing is, not even one of the above goals is a direct result of Japanese pro attacking play and are all just sloppy play by the defensive line + midfield + a bit of luck However overall looking I believe Japan entered the game with far too open play , however if Japan would have scored first I believe the entire set point would have changed. Must say also, that the substitutions all played worse than the guys who played before them, which was really a surprise however after some checking up, it seems that well the mind set of the team was finished by than... (3rd goal came right after the break basically) I feel positive towards the approach which loads will slam here. I believe the game plan was not so bad, but the execution was. This game plan was good with players who are capable of executing it. However because of mistakes by players and sloppy play the entire system backfired and it happened what it happened. Meaning atm Japan has problem at the DC and MC positions. Playing like we did today is problematic because of those two positions. They need to be top level as well... I am extremely interested in what players and coach would have to say about the game. Like I said I believe the result doesn't show the entire story and yes I believe with this players and with this team this game could have been won with a different approach towards it.
You're stating the same thing but with different words. Players create themselves through the NT but the NT, its responsabilities, high pressure games and the whole surrounding, also create top class players. If he doesn't even try to identify talent to try to let it grow, yeah of course it ain't going to work ever. Player development doesn't end after the U23 team, there's still some progress to do and his job is to bring guys to the highest level. Great japanese strikers were rare but with that backward strategy it's going to be even worse. Stop this folishness Zach.
That 'zero toppu' tactics was just a try, not a permanent system which will be implemented in every game from now on. So don't say he's not trying. It simply goes like that - if Japan will play with 10 FW on the pitch or with no one the number of socred goals will be the same.
No point in trying something that has no upside. Kengo as a n°10, Kagawa on the left, Honda wasting his energy upfront, it's almost like he takes pleasure in watching all the guys out of position. We improved so much when Kagawa took place in the center against France that I was surprised he sticked with Kengo from the start against Brazil, the same Kengo who struggled physically and technically there. I agree that there is no absolute need to win but that was almost as we gave up the win for that little experiment. He could have given Sato some minutes right ? Nah.
It's hard to put on the pitch a FW who's in the squad only because he was visiting an art works exhibition in Italy with his wife
Didn't see the match, but the highlights make everything seem like it was played with the desire of a glorified testimonial, with the resulting comical goals Japan manage to concede fitting in with that scenario pretty damn well too. Current international football seems to be all about the things Japan should do really well, but for some reason everybody continues to knock back blue pills to remain in wonder land, and the resulting delusions keeps the team oblivious to the true nature of what they are, and where they should be. The defence on it's own is porous, but all together as a team they defend as effectively as anybody. The forwards score few goals, but behind them they have a stupid amount of quality creators. Get caught sleeping for one game though, and lol, 4-0.....typical.
At the end of the day it is silly to get worked up about this game. Japan was playing a game to "see what happens if . . . " Nobody in the world - not even Argentina, in a bragging rights game - tries to play that offensively against Brazil. Zach did it because he wanted to see if he can surprise Brazil and frustrate them. It actually worked quite well until the second goal, after which, it is pointless to try to frustrate anyone. The question was whether a new type of strategy could work against a very strong opponent. Obviously the answer is "no", but you can see some possibilities from the effort. I thought that the buildup was very impressive. Yes, its pointless unless you finish off the job (as we learned from Osim), but it does offer a new dimension. The main negative was not the "defense", who did their job for the most part, against a strong opposition. It was the lack of a person to break up the counter before it starts, because none of the deep midfield is capable of keeping up with Brazil's midfielders in a footrace. I actually was happy to see this happen, because the most important thing the Japan NT needs to learn ASAP is that you cant keep using old, slow, un-physical players in the center of the formation. The thing that pissed me off most about the France game was all the comments about how great Endo and Kengo were (mainly Endo). Dont get me wrong I think Endo is a very inspirational story and it is great that he got a record for caps. But now that he has the record it is time to retire, because he does NOT belong playing international matches against Brasil (or even France for that matter). And Kengo is even worse. Just like with Nakazawa and Tulio after the WC, you have to just accept the fact that people get old, and move to the next generation. If Japan had been playing with Hosogai and Inui from the start, I think things could have been a lot different. (And for those of you who are tempted to reply: "but Endo was the best player out there". Sure, he WAS the best in central midfield out of the players Zack used. But that isnt saying much. It is a bit like saying Aki Maeda is the most talented singer in AKB48 )
The game felt a lot like the match against the Netherlands in 2009 when Okada Japan just went all guns blazing until we were out of bullets at ~60th minute. Slight difference in how things panned out, but the method Japan went with was similar.
I agree, there were lots of similarities. And it is interesting to recall the result against Holland one year later, when the two teams were playing "for real". Bottom line is that they didnt waste a friendly by packing the box and trying to make sure they "looked good". Its better to see what happens when you open things up, since it it the only way the team is ever going to progress.
So like I said. Sure focus on next international and getting those 3 points which basically almost put Japan to WC But start looking for solutions in areas, where they are needed. If we look at WC Brazil 2014 (and we do need to look that far) - Goalkeeper position is good unless Kawashima injures himself (sometimes it would be good to test the second goalkeeper as well in a friendly, I mean sure you try to win but it is a friendly with a reason...) - Left and right back positions are basically checked - Nagatomo - Uchida - Hiroki - Gotoku What the above means is not that they are fixed and will 100% play in WC but that Japan has a good selection of fullback players and that there is no worry there, if someone new comes here in this position and is all superman sure you take him instead and that goes for all the positions I will mention. - Central Defense - Maya Yoshida will only advance and probably get better at his job. The problem is/are his partners replacements. Konno, Inoha and Kurihara. You can add two years to all of them for starters and two of them reach 30+ which is not really problematic for central defenders, but it isnt exactly a plus as well. I think someone like Konno may be good enough as a replacement but that Japan needs to find another partner for Yoshida. I was speaking Daisuke Suzuki since long ago...but that is for a coach to decide. And same goes for Kurihara, I dont think he is the best Japan has to offer in DC position - Central Midfield Let us not full anyone by saying Endo in 2 years time is a go to guy. Cause than I really think someone is underestimating Japanese football and J-League. Who knows perhaps he will be able to make it as a good sub for WC 2014, but I doubt it... Hasebe is the option only if he gets a club where he will play and play well in THIS next winter transfer window, or else we can drop him as well. At least from the starting line up for now. Hosogai needs to make sure he plays regulary in his or some other club as well And Hideto Takahashi...Well who knows, you would had to see more of him to know....and again that is the purpose of friendlies. The entire midfield looks in a really bad shape to be honest and I dont mean like just play, on some days that is fine... The problem is, players dont play in their clubs, if we add 2 years plus, we can worry about some and so on. Right now if this stays as it is in two years time this will be a huge problem so better start solving it fast. There are really some potentially great players Japan could start testing in that area. Also it sends a good message to the rest of the current midfielders. Your place in the JNT is not a given...make sure you play and play well and only that you will play for JNT. You do not play because the name on the jersey is known... Offensive midfield. I think there is really nothing to fear here. Kengo Nakamura should slowly but surely be dropped from JNT, not because he isn't good, or because I think in two years time he will suck. But because sorry Kengo in your position, Japan has such quality that it can make 2 or 3 really great national teams with them. So who will play on AML , AMC and AMR positions is something I dont want to even mention because there are so many great players who are already perhaps deserving of a national jersey and have the potential to grab it in next two years that... Striker position - Maeda isnt getting any younger and while some national teams would keep with a striker who is 33+ in WC Brazil. Maeda is not exactly a superstar of that quality or is Japan that weak and has nobody else that it would have to happen... - Mike Havenaar, still not sure, still sceptical, lets see what happens with him in these two years, how much he will play and score, but aside from that, we have a problem. Tadanari Lee is not playing Hisato Sato grabbed himself a recall just to get first class watching tickets for friendlies... So basically we know jack about where we are and what are our options and I suggest start testing them. Whoever Zac feels could be appropriate. From Genki Omae to for all I care freaking Kenyu Sugimoto... I trust in him to pick well, I have my own favourites but he is more qualified...but START TESTING them...because the selection process is not something you will do in one month on one game. You will have to test that guy in several games before you will be sure this is your man for WC 2014 and the thing is, you may not find him right away. He may be the second, third or even fourth you will call up. So it may take more than a year to find him and than some time to get him playing great with this team. Central defense central midfield striker position find the replacements and start building this world class team, before is too late. I am not saying that Zac should call 5 new players for the next WCQ match. But start searching for them and start testing them. Want to see some changes which go in that direction and show that he is thinking about that in the next game
Certainly, the vulnerability on counter-attacks (which has been obvious from even the Asian team opposition) has finally been truly exposed as the main weakness of this current team due to firstly the positioning of the volante's and their tendency to overcommit forward and also ofcourse the lack of pace. One nice thing I liked was seeing them still building play and passing from the back when 2-0 and even 3-0 down with Brazilian attackers pressing them pretty high.
Kawashima - Gonda - Hayashi? Blue-san is right, on the fullbacks we're ok. On the center, beside Yoshida, i could say that Suzuki and Inoha are sure. About Konno, i'm not sure; about Kurihara, no. Please just no. Midfield: Endo is sure. Hasebe too, but only if he plays with continuity, now he doesn't. Hosogai would have to be tested, even with Oman. Behind.. Takahashi and Ogihara are worthy a try. Also Yamaguchi if Hosogai wouldn't step up his play. Offensive midfielders: Kagawa, Honda, Kiyotake and Okazaki are sure. Inui maybe, but in this 75 minutes played he didn't show great skills that he's showing in Frankfurt. You know my opinion: Hiroki Yamada is the guy to complete this battery of stars. Behind them? Kakitani? Miyaichi? Omae? I don't know, but the choices are a lot, so don't worry about this field zone. Striker: that's the biggest problem. I don't know if in the next two years there will be a great finisher for all this play. Maeda and Havenaar are the most reliable now, aside Sato, who is not considered by the coach (as you saw in these two friendlies..). Guys who could be a solution? Nagai, Akihiro Sato and just them for now. Maybe Ibusuki will be rise in the future. We are risking of being another Portugal: great squad, great style of playing, but without a good striker you won't win a damn thing.
The teams which aren't vulneable against fast couters doesn't exist in this world. Some teams have only that counter-attacking in their 'football DNA'. Top teams which match Japanese NT in the aspect of technical ability (like Brazil, Spain or Germany) only doesn't have a problem between playing a fast counter and scoring on 4 out of five occasions and creating goals by the way of the slow build up on the opponent's defensive halves. That's what makes them the best in the world. Brazilians seemed faster and their defenders were flawless when it came to cutting passes 20-30 meters away from their goal line. A feature which Japanese team lacks. And it could be only helped when Japanese defenders will match midfield playing on the top European level or NT which means, nowhere soon I suppose. Maya could be great containing a striker when it comes aerial or physical play but he still lacks in that aspect. When he'll be paired with another one with similar abilities and he would make progress with reading the game more and cutting the passes from the midfield then I think I'll be able to say that Japanese defence line doesn't lack anything. Eiji on the other hand was in shambles yesterday. Look how much it means not to concede a fast goal. Against France he was stronger with every minute keeping his goal sheet clean. Every good save made him even better on the next occasion which even resulted with him going 'for the notes' on some of the easy saves. Yesterday he was feeling so overwhelmed by Brazilians that he made even so stupid interventions like the one on the occasion of the called-off goal. He lost his self-confidence and felt like everytime he's 1 on 1 with Brazilian he'll lose no matter what he could have tried so he let them go without too much fight.