2011 Sudamericano Sub20 (R)

bad players + bad coaching + bad luck = disaster.


the formation was never right, Vaccia was handled by Viuzete, and there was bad luck in last nights game and in the tournament overall.

The only thing 'rescatable' was the effort the kids put forth, and a few individualities....

 

Luck had nothing to do here.
We lost long before they departed from Santiago, when Vaccia was designated to be our coach.

 

i didn't mean to suggest that luck was the biggest reason they didn't qualify or any of that...

but i do think its fair to say there was some bad luck overall.........The team showed a complete lack of 'reaccion' when things didn't go our way,

but had that penalty against argentina not been made up, things could have been different......or had Pinares' tiro libre gone in against brazil instead of hitting the post......or in last night's game had that ball not been cleared off of the line things could have been different.


i'm just saying it seemed like we had some bad luck...but it wasn't definitive

 

...wow.

 

Despite his bad achievements, I`m with him this time.
He has a signed contract, where it doesn`t imply that he has to quit due to bad results. As a diference with the Bielsa issue, this time Jadue and boys will have to get their asses wet, if they want him out of the team, and pay him out, or die with him......(Vaccia has proved he is as worthy as Jadue and boys. They are made one for the other, perfectly. They are both mediocre)

 

seems like a mediocre way of approaching the situation.....'we have bad management so keep on with bad coaches'.

Vaccia is one of HMN's biggest mistakes, and its time for him to go. If it means he gets a pay out, then its necessary for the future of Chilean soccer.

 

Mediocrity is for the fools, who are incapable of facing truth or don`t know nothing about what they are talking about, and prefer to hide under their grandmothers dress waiting others to solve the problems for them. As for internet, they prefer to hide themselves in anonimity, while simply shoot their blasphemy and clueless thougts, about anything. Very similar as what you are doing, right now with that opinion.


In this case, the man has a signed contract, as any worker can, and he is willing to defend his job by all means, legally established. Jadue as new president of ANFP and also as a lawyer, he knows or must know, that if they want to end a workers job, he must pay him the lawful given compensations towards it (as chief of staff, he is entitled of doing that, but must pay what is right, according to the work laws existent in Chile). He can`t simply wait that all workers will gladly resign, and make their lifes easier, and ask for no compensation, due to only their will that the man has to go home. In this case as a diference from Bielsa, who resigned on his own will, Vaccia wants to keep his job, and as any person or Chilean citizen he is entitled of that right, by Chilean law of course.
Was this a mistake by HMN ?,
maybe it was, but the fact remains the same and it`s not Vaccia`s fault. When any executive official asumes any administrative job, he must do it, with the good parts and the bad parts as well. As HMN isn`t the president now, while Jadue is, now Jadue must deal with it, as from the moment he asumed, he and his staff are responsible for everything that happens within the Federation and the ANFP, which unfortunately for them, it includes all current relationships within employer`s and workers, of those institutions. And for last, Vaccia is a worker there as any other worker is. Deal with it.

 

New Coaches across the board if the U17 don't do well either.

 

Totalmente de acuerdo, pero Jadue y Cia. a su vez fueron incapaces de retener a un extraordinario técnico, que deseaba con todo su corazón permanecer en la banca y seguir trabajando como lo había hecho hasta ahora. Exigirle a Vaccia que renuncie por sus fracaso, sería lo mismo que exigírselo a Jadue y Cia., por la misma razón, por un tema de "entereza e hidalguía".
Están hechos uno para el otro, en forma igual. (como dije anteriormente).

Por lo demás, siguiendo la misma lógica de Jadue, como la ANFP no le ha dicho nada hasta ahora, quiere decir que están de acuerdo en mantenerlo D)

Ahora, en serio, limitándome a lo estrictamente legal, Vaccia tiene todo mí apoyo. Que lo indemnizen si lo quieren sacar, al igual como será con la contratación, de sea el técnico que sea el que llegue a la selección. En el caso de Acosta, en su momento lo echaron y si hubo que indemnizarlo por el despido prematuro allá por el año 2000. ¿ por qué tendrá que ser diferente con Vaccia ?

 

El que sea malo, no lo convierte en un sinverguenza. Nunca ha sido él, el que ha buscado el trabajo, sino que ha sido llamado o mantenido por sus eventuales jefes, que por lo demás, viene trabajando con distintos grupos de selección desde la época en que Mosquera era el presidente del futbol chileno, en el siglo pasado. Algo debe tener para que siempre sea considerado.(yo creo que debe cobrar muy poco y además que se entrega completamente en forma altamente profesional a hacer su trabajo, pues siempre ha sido muy trabajador. Pero que es malo, es muy malo. Para colmo, es chuncho,. Nunca me ha gustado).

 

Oh god! all of this because i said Vaccia should be sacked? I think 99% of Chilean fans are blasphemous then! you're a joke

I'm tired of pointing out the fact that you don't have the capacity to understand simple things that are written....I said that i think he needs to go, even if it means he is entitled to a buy out. I didn't say anything about him not being entitled to one.

- Hahahaha...its unbelievable you think you make sense

I say: Vaccia is one of HMN mistakes

You : agree with me in half a sentence and then go on a rant about how he is a worker, and has rights, it isn't like Bielsa and now its CURRENTLY Jadue's problem... bla bla bla bla..

and you think you're arguing with me. This is why you're the WALL...

you've taken what i said, invented something else loosely related to it and are now arguing with yourself...thinking you're commenting with me.

Its unbelievable

 

True, but you also pointed out that my point of view was mediocre (post Nº286 of this thead), which is a blatant blasphemy. I`m an idealist and you can call me a socialist or a commy, for what I care, but the right to work is one of the basic human rights that every person has, which is the point I`m defending here, so don`t suggest that my point of view is mediocre, because you don`t like it or think otherwise. Say that you disagree, and I`ll accept it and respect you for it, but the sole suggestion which you pointed out, it is a serious offense on anyone who thinks about the issue as I do.

I also said that it was probably true, but to be fair with HMN as you suggest it as one of his biggest mistakes, you must also say that Vaccia, has been a repeated mistake since he first started working for the Federation, back in the days of Mario Mosquera`s presidency, and afterwards in both presidential terms of Reynaldo Sánchez , who also even named him as the coach of our adult NT for two qualifier games in the qualifiers for the 2002 WC, both of which we lost, before Garcés took over our NT.

No, I have pointed it directly to you, as you are the one who is inventing things on others (me, on this ocassion), to afterwards say that you haven`t, the same as I`m doing it right now, pointing it at you, zasal911.

 

alright, i'm not interested in this getting out of hand or overly broad. In the end i think we agree on a lot of issues. a few brief points

- listen, there's nothing wrong with being a commi or a socialist...i myself am probably a socialist.

- if you were offended at the 'mediocre' comment then i apologize. Try to understand that it wasn't meant as an offense. You had written that Vaccia should stay because he's a 'mediocre' coach and we had 'mediocre' management....it was a play on your words.

Again, no insult intended there

- yes, i think he sucks....keeping him was a mistake as I see if by HMN...its not partisan, if Jadue decides to keep him i'll also say its a huge mistake...


In the end lets leave it at that.... To me, Bielsa's blasting of the big 3 and blaming them was uncalled for. so was HMn blaming Pinera... its an opinion

 

Excuses and explanations accepted. Thanks.


About the issue of Vaccia, I`ve been googling, and I found out that he has been in charge of the younger teams since his contract with the ANFP, which goes from the first days of Reynaldo Sánchez presidency, back at the year 2000, when he first asumed, and the reason why he took over the NT for the 2002 qualifiers it was due to the fact that as coach in charge of the younger teams when Pedro García resigned, he asumed as interim coach before Garcés was appointed for the job, and he went on with the younger teams, and was maintained in his position after Olmos decided to have him continue working there as he was.

When HMN asumed in 2007, he didn`t do any changes and he maintained those coaches that already were working, which were Bassay and Vaccia, situation that still remains as today in the case of Vaccia, while Bassay resigned which meant that Vaccia took over the under 20 team. So if you want to find a guilty one for hiring Vaccia, this was Reynaldo Sánchez, and also you can blame HMN for not changing the staff when he asumed, but the fact remains that when Bielsa started his period, shortly after HMN asumed his presidency, he put no objections on his work with the younger teams.

However, thinking about putting an end to his coach contract, it means that the compensations that will have to be paid to Vaccia, extend themselves for almost 10 years of continued work in the ANFP, which means a whole lot of money, money that it seems that the Federation doesn`t have, which also means that the man is "stuck", so as a money issue, maybe it is cheaper not to pay him out, but have him work as an assistant to whoever they decide to nominate as future coach in charge of the younger teams, but lets hope he never gets to be in charge of another team again, or else we`ll see once again the same kind of failure we just had in Peru.

 

I doubt that the compensation he would be entitled to would be beyond what the anfp is able to afford. Not being able to afford to fire a bad coach should never be an excuse to keeping him on....

like you said, maybe a demotion would work best

Vaccia, I think, has always sucked and keeping him around was a mistake.

Not being able to hang onto Sulantuay was a fail, though this isn't completely HMN fault either..

its clear that success at the U20 level can breed success at the adult level, and we need someone more capacitado in there. Why not try to get Tocalli or someone who has demonstrable talent in managing youth teams?

 

Si de mí hubiese dependido, yo jamás lo hubiera contratado. Lo que está claro y no debe jamás olvidarse es que este ñato, grupo de jugadores que agarra, va ser un equipo que va al fracaso en cuanto a metas mayores.

Obviando este hecho, igual es bueno reconocerle el hecho de que es muy trabajador, no lo rehuye, mantiene buena relación con sus jugadores, con la prensa, sus colegas, en fin, suele mantener un muy bajo perfil, lo que le ha ayudado a mantenerse vigente todo este tiempo como entrenador en nuestras selecciones y también tiene el mérito de saber encontrar potenciales jugadores en todo Chile, no solo de los equipos grandes, pues trabajando con menores, a muchos de los jugadores que hoy conocemos, él les dió una primera oportunidad y los mostró en sus equipos de menores, sobretodo aquellos provenientes de provincia. Lamentablemente, su ojo profesional solo llega a eso, capaz de reconocer a un proyecto de jugador, pero incapaz por si solo de hacerlo progresar más allá.

Como ayudante o entrenador de apoyo, perfectamente puede ser un aporte para cualquier otro técnico, pero para encargarse de un proceso y dirigirlos en instancias mayores, mejor designen al auxiliar que hace el aseo o al cocinero de Juan Pinto Durán ,