2010 USSF Div. 2 and USL-2 Attendance Thread

Discussion in 'United Soccer Leagues' started by The Marquis, Apr 13, 2010.

  1. The Marquis

    The Marquis Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 13, 2007
    Washougal, WA
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    15,418 in Portland
     
  2. kenntomasch

    kenntomasch Member+

    Sep 2, 1999
    Out West
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    USSFD2 average Thursday morning was 4,372. After a weekend that saw 7 games average 8,071 (far and away the highest of the season), the average is now 4,566.

    And here's the deal on Tampa Bay:
    • They're still new at this.
    • There's only so much the name and colors can do after 17 years dead.
    • They're playing in a baseball stadium with a 100 yard field.
    • As they're sharing space with a baseball team, they've had some bad (weeknight) dates that are unavoidable. (The Tampa Yankees are also in line to make the Florida State League playoffs, which probably won't go until the Rowdies' next home game 9/16, but you never know.)
    • Those who thought there were just thousands upon thousands of fans who've been pining for pro soccer's return since the demise of the Mutiny - fans who'd endure anything to go to nearly every game - were wrong. At the end of the day, it's still D2 soccer, it's still a tough sell, you have to work at it, and they're in a less-than-ideal situation since they got NIMBYd out of their own stadium.

    In a related story, those who insist that if the Mutiny had just been named Rowdies, they'd still be around today have a harder case to make now. The name simply can't perform magic.
     
  3. VioletCrown

    VioletCrown Member+

    FC Dallas
    United States
    Aug 30, 2000
    Austin, Texas
    Club:
    Austin Aztex
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I can't wait for the return of the Ft. Lauderdale Strikers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    ;)
     
  4. kenntomasch

    kenntomasch Member+

    Sep 2, 1999
    Out West
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Don't get me started there. Anybody who thinks that name is worth an extra few thousand people is smoking something.
     
  5. ButlerBob

    ButlerBob Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 13, 2001
    Evanston, IL
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I pretty much always agree with Kenn on how to increase your attendance. It's almost like that old phrase " How do you get to Carnegie Hall?" But instead "How do you increase your attendance in minoir league soccer?" But the answer is sell, sell and sell. It's a lot of hard work and building relationships and both of those take time. Both Portland and Montreal took time to get to the level they are at now. It wasn't an over night attenance swell. Heck, Montreal almost went out of business.
     
  6. kenntomasch

    kenntomasch Member+

    Sep 2, 1999
    Out West
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You mean...you don't just have to win?
     
  7. VioletCrown

    VioletCrown Member+

    FC Dallas
    United States
    Aug 30, 2000
    Austin, Texas
    Club:
    Austin Aztex
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    US Division 2

    Code:
    % of season completed
    81.7%
    Year	Average	Median	%<2K	%>10k
    2002	2955	2163	41.3%	2.9%
    2003	3132	2218	47.0%	3.7%
    2004	3752	3014	32.2%	3.8%
    2005	4390	3537	19.0%	8.0%
    2006	4534	3217	17.5%	10.9%
    2007	4638	4113	19.7%	8.8%
    2008	5188	4531	11.2%	11.9%
    2009	4545	3655	22.4%	11.2%
    2010	4566	2985	27.2%	12.9%
    
    
    Code:
    Final Numbers
    Year	Average	Median	%<2K	%>10k
    2002	3037	2185	40.1%	3.6%
    2003	3335	2463	42.9%	4.1%
    2004	3878	3107	30.9%	4.5%
    2005	4527	3554	19.6%	7.7%
    2006	4666	3370	18.5%	10.7%
    2007	4771	4274	19.6%	10.1%
    2008	5164	4510	10.9%	12.1%
    2009	4709	3662	21.2%	13.3%
    
    USL2/D3 Pro League

    Code:
    Final Numbers
    Year	Average	Median	%<1K	%>3k
    2005	1680	1457	21.4%	11.9%
    2006	1803	1703	14.1%	11.8%
    2007	1575	1423	28.1%	6.3%
    2008	1614	1629	26.0%	7.3%
    2009	1602	1518	31.8%	7.1%
    2010	1689	1385	35.1%	17.5%
    
    Code:
    USL2				Total	Team Avg	Playoffs
    Charleston Battery		36412	3641		4523
    Richmond Kickers   		20440	2044		2276
    Harrisburg City Islanders   	16659	1666		
    Pittsburgh Riverhounds   	9409	941		
    Charlotte Eagles     		9107	911		
    Real Maryland Monarchs		4259	608		
    
    As expected, average is way up. We've more than recovered what we lost last week. However, the median did not recover, and is still below 3000. It's a real worry that you have to go back to 2003 when the A-League was populated by teams like the Cincinnati Riverhawks (average 377) to find a worse median.

    Of course, it's hard to say how much fluff there was back then. So maybe, despite things looking abysmal this season (outside of Montreal and Portland), maybe things are better than they were five or six years ago. Who knows.

    But it's only downhill from here. Portland only has one home game left, Montreal two. Likely to all be sellouts. Rochester also has two. Sellouts would be nice, but I'm not expecting it. Though they did have a season high at their last home game.

    Any hopes of a decent final set of numbers rely on 4 games in St. Louis, 4 games in Miami and 4 games in Carolina.

    Yeah. It's all downhill from here.

    For the record, this week's home teams are: Portland, Carolina, Austin, St. Louis, Vancouver and Puerto Rico. (Here's hoping they can get that last one in between hurricanes).
     
  8. Maza1987

    Maza1987 Member

    Mar 6, 2009
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    May the lord have mercy on us all.
     
  9. kenntomasch

    kenntomasch Member+

    Sep 2, 1999
    Out West
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    4.4% is way up?
     
  10. VioletCrown

    VioletCrown Member+

    FC Dallas
    United States
    Aug 30, 2000
    Austin, Texas
    Club:
    Austin Aztex
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It jumped up past where it was two weeks ago. Considering how far it dropped last week, that's an accomplishment. That's all I meant.

    And, you have to admit that a 4.4% jump this late in the season is a pretty impressive jump.

    It's small consolation, though. Despite Montreal and Portland (who have done as good or better than any previous year), this will be the worst year since '05 for average, and the worst year since '03 for median. It could finish out the worst year since '03 for %<2k.

    All the numbers seem to be going in the wrong direction.
     
  11. kenntomasch

    kenntomasch Member+

    Sep 2, 1999
    Out West
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah, but it's based on exactly two markets, one of which leaves in two months and the other which leaves in 14.
     
  12. ESyDC

    ESyDC New Member

    Sep 2, 2009
    Los Vegas
    Maryland should acquire some out of prime big names stars for real.
     
  13. VioletCrown

    VioletCrown Member+

    FC Dallas
    United States
    Aug 30, 2000
    Austin, Texas
    Club:
    Austin Aztex
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    US Division 2

    Code:
    % of season completed
    84.4%
    Year	Average	Median	%<2K	%>10k
    2002	2981	2167	40.6%	2.8%
    2003	3142	2218	46.4%	3.6%
    2004	3720	2928	31.7%	3.7%
    2005	4392	3537	19.1%	7.8%
    2006	4485	3217	18.4%	10.6%
    2007	4585	4100	20.6%	8.5%
    2008	5116	4510	11.5%	11.5%
    2009	4575	3647	21.6%	11.5%
    2010	4603	3104	27.0%	13.2%
    
    
    Code:
    Final Numbers
    Year	Average	Median	%<2K	%>10k
    2002	3037	2185	40.1%	3.6%
    2003	3335	2463	42.9%	4.1%
    2004	3878	3107	30.9%	4.5%
    2005	4527	3554	19.6%	7.7%
    2006	4666	3370	18.5%	10.7%
    2007	4771	4274	19.6%	10.1%
    2008	5164	4510	10.9%	12.1%
    2009	4709	3662	21.2%	13.3%
    
    USL2/D3 Pro League

    Code:
    Final Numbers
    Year	Average	Median	%<1K	%>3k
    2005	1680	1457	21.4%	11.9%
    2006	1803	1703	14.1%	11.8%
    2007	1575	1423	28.1%	6.3%
    2008	1614	1629	26.0%	7.3%
    2009	1602	1518	31.8%	7.1%
    2010	1689	1385	35.1%	17.5%
    
    Code:
    USL2				Total	Team Avg	Playoffs
    Charleston Battery		36412	3641		4523
    Richmond Kickers   		20440	2044		2276
    Harrisburg City Islanders   	16659	1666		
    Pittsburgh Riverhounds   	9409	941		
    Charlotte Eagles     		9107	911		
    Real Maryland Monarchs		4259	608		
    
    Home games in Puerto Rico (2x), Baltimore, Rochester, Carolina, St. Louis and Miami. That should kill off any hopes of good-looking attendance numbers this season. The median had finally managed to make its way back above 3k. This week will probably finish that off.
     
  14. Macsen

    Macsen Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 5, 2007
    Orlando
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The USL2 numbers are really read properly in the median. Just about all the numbers of the existing teams went down; RMM was exactly the same average somehow. And in fact, Charlotte and Pittsburgh plummeted. The only reason the league numbers went up is because the numbers for the Charleston Battery went up despite their voluntary demotion.
     
  15. kenntomasch

    kenntomasch Member+

    Sep 2, 1999
    Out West
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And what does that tell you?
     
  16. Mikey mouse

    Mikey mouse Member

    Jul 27, 1999
    Charleston, SC
    Club:
    Charleston
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    d2 or d3, it isnt going to matter much to the average joe fan?

    Some of the things in that did help the Battery this season; all the home games were on Friday or Saturday night, a long history, a front office that works hard and no mid-week games for regular season play, all which definately helped.

    A number that isnt in the spreadsheet is the attendence for exhibitions.

    more than 10,000 total attended the three Carolina Challenge matches in March and the Bolton match had more than 5200 (only sell out of the season). That definatley added some money to the coffers this season.
     
  17. wellington

    wellington Member

    Jun 4, 1999
    Charlotte, NC
    Club:
    Charlotte
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    True. The only people who care are us soccer nerds. Most of us would support our team regardless of the league or division.

    It just goes to show that the on-field product is only a small part of the equation. The off-field component is the critical part including the game day experience. The Battery puts on a great production year-after-year. Even when they played at old Stoney Field they knew how to make the game day experience as good as it could possibly be.

    We can probably learn a lot from Indy baseball (St. Paul Saints) as well. Maybe not the best talent on the field, but Indy baseball teams know what the fans want -- a fun night of affordable entertainment.
     
  18. kenntomasch

    kenntomasch Member+

    Sep 2, 1999
    Out West
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Very key, the bolded part. It doesn't get enough respect, that part of the equation.
     
  19. VioletCrown

    VioletCrown Member+

    FC Dallas
    United States
    Aug 30, 2000
    Austin, Texas
    Club:
    Austin Aztex
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    US Division 2

    Code:
    % of season completed
    88.3%
    Year	Average	Median	%<2K	%>10k
    2002	2970	2167	41.0%	3.2%
    2003	3162	2222	45.5%	3.4%
    2004	3743	2965	32.0%	3.6%
    2005	4449	3545	19.6%	8.1%
    2006	4540	3230	18.2%	10.8%
    2007	4662	4107	20.9%	9.5%
    2008	5134	4510	11.7%	11.7%
    2009	4620	3647	22.1%	12.4%
    2010	4521	2864	27.7%	12.6%
    
    
    Code:
    Final Numbers
    Year	Average	Median	%<2K	%>10k
    2002	3037	2185	40.1%	3.6%
    2003	3335	2463	42.9%	4.1%
    2004	3878	3107	30.9%	4.5%
    2005	4527	3554	19.6%	7.7%
    2006	4666	3370	18.5%	10.7%
    2007	4771	4274	19.6%	10.1%
    2008	5164	4510	10.9%	12.1%
    2009	4709	3662	21.2%	13.3%
    
    USL2/D3 Pro League

    Code:
    Final Numbers
    Year	Average	Median	%<1K	%>3k
    2005	1680	1457	21.4%	11.9%
    2006	1803	1703	14.1%	11.8%
    2007	1575	1423	28.1%	6.3%
    2008	1614	1629	26.0%	7.3%
    2009	1602	1518	31.8%	7.1%
    2010	1689	1385	35.1%	17.5%
    
    Code:
    USL2				Total	Team Avg	Playoffs
    Charleston Battery		36412	3641		4523
    Richmond Kickers   		20440	2044		2276
    Harrisburg City Islanders   	16659	1666		
    Pittsburgh Riverhounds   	9409	941		
    Charlotte Eagles     		9107	911		
    Real Maryland Monarchs		4259	608		
    
    Well, I said it was going to be bad. And it was. We now are back to 2004 for a comparable year. And it won't get any better next week, with two home games in Minnesota, and one each in Tampa Bay, Rochester, Baltimore, St. Louis, Puerto Rico and Montreal. The best we can probably hope for is holding serve.

    It's been said that a team needs an average attendance of 5,000 to get by financially (except for NSC Minnesota, which has said they can get by with just 3k).

    That means that of all the teams that won't be gone to MLS by two years from now, only one of them is currently meeting that standard.

    What this tells me is that it's beyond absurd for the NASL to get sanctioned. Even if they have the money, even if they have the fields, even if they have the very wealthy owners, it's just stupid for them to keep throwing money at such a massive money pit. At this point, I think it's time to shutter up D2 and retrench at the D3 level.

    Does it make any sense to call it D3 if there is no D2? Probably not.

    But it doesn't make sense to fly around the continent when you're only pulling in 2k average attendances. I know I've seen a few folks that are mentally preparing for it. I'm going to join them now, and start mulling over what happens to this thread next season.
     
  20. The Marquis

    The Marquis Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 13, 2007
    Washougal, WA
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  21. VioletCrown

    VioletCrown Member+

    FC Dallas
    United States
    Aug 30, 2000
    Austin, Texas
    Club:
    Austin Aztex
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm waiting to post this week's numbers until after Minnesota reports theirs to the USSF. At the moment, though, we haven't lost much on the average and median.

    I will say that I was pleased at Puerto Rico's final regular season number -- 3602. Second highest all season, and more in line with some of last year's numbers. But I was disappointed with Rochester. I was hoping they'd close with more than 10k. Maybe they'll do better in the playoffs.

    This week we have two games for Miami, Tampa, Vancouver, Baltimore, Carolina and Austin. Final regular season home games for Austin and Baltimore (possible final season ever for CPB).
     
  22. kenntomasch

    kenntomasch Member+

    Sep 2, 1999
    Out West
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    My D2 numbers are here (along with MLS numbers) based on what I have been told will be/is Minnesota's number for the finale.
     
  23. VioletCrown

    VioletCrown Member+

    FC Dallas
    United States
    Aug 30, 2000
    Austin, Texas
    Club:
    Austin Aztex
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah. I've done a compare and all yours match except Minnesota, but that's only because I haven't entered the Minnesota number. I saw the comments on IMS, but I figured since I've been consistent so far (using the USSF website), I may as well stick with it. At least, until next week. If it still hasn't shown up on the USSF website by next week, then I'll just enter it and assume what was reported on IMS is accurate.
     
  24. VioletCrown

    VioletCrown Member+

    FC Dallas
    United States
    Aug 30, 2000
    Austin, Texas
    Club:
    Austin Aztex
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    US Division 2

    Code:
    % of season completed
    96.7%
    Year	Average	Median	%<2K	%>10k
    2002	2993	2158	41.2%	3.7%
    2003	3307	2448	43.6%	4.3%
    2004	3841	2990	31.5%	4.6%
    2005	4453	3494	20.4%	8.0%
    2006	4593	3312	18.5%	10.5%
    2007	4735	4199	19.8%	9.9%
    2008	5138	4510	11.3%	11.9%
    2009	4686	3647	21.4%	13.2%
    2010	4429	2853	29.3%	12.1%
    
    
    Code:
    Final Numbers
    Year	Average	Median	%<2K	%>10k
    2002	3037	2185	40.1%	3.6%
    2003	3335	2463	42.9%	4.1%
    2004	3878	3107	30.9%	4.5%
    2005	4527	3554	19.6%	7.7%
    2006	4666	3370	18.5%	10.7%
    2007	4771	4274	19.6%	10.1%
    2008	5164	4510	10.9%	12.1%
    2009	4709	3662	21.2%	13.3%
    
    USL2/D3 Pro League

    Code:
    Final Numbers
    Year	Average	Median	%<1K	%>3k
    2005	1680	1457	21.4%	11.9%
    2006	1803	1703	14.1%	11.8%
    2007	1575	1423	28.1%	6.3%
    2008	1614	1629	26.0%	7.3%
    2009	1602	1518	31.8%	7.1%
    2010	1689	1385	35.1%	17.5%
    
    Code:
    USL2				Total	Team Avg	Playoffs
    Charleston Battery		36412	3641		4523
    Richmond Kickers   		20440	2044		2276
    Harrisburg City Islanders   	16659	1666		
    Pittsburgh Riverhounds   	9409	941		
    Charlotte Eagles     		9107	911		
    Real Maryland Monarchs		4259	608		
    
    I used the number reported on the IMS website (in the comments) for the Minnesota - Vancouver game. It's still not there on the USSF website.

    Median is at least fairly stable, but the other numbers have dropped, as expected. We're at the end. All that's left are home games for St. Louis, Carolina, Miami, Montreal, Tampa Bay and Vancouver.

    Regular season closers were very good for Austin and Baltimore, hitting second high numbers for the season. Austin's was their second highest ever.

    It will be interesting to see how the playoffs fare.
     
  25. kenntomasch

    kenntomasch Member+

    Sep 2, 1999
    Out West
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well, four of the six teams you'd expect not to draw well in the playoffs won't actually MAKE the playoffs, so there's that. But then you'll have the whole "little time to sell tickets, no time to sell groups" aspect that is part and parcel of the playoffs.

    Portland and Montreal should draw fairly well, one would think. I wouldn't have huge confidence in too many others.
     

Share This Page