GK Kristian Gonzalez (Miami Fla.; Gulliver HS) -- 6'0 Georgia State rising junior, back-up in 05 Philip Marfuggi (West Windsor, N.J.; Windsor Plainsboro HS), -- 6'0 Clemson rising senior, 1st team all-ACC in 05 David Simolike (Philadelphia) -- 6'0 whereabouts unknown, was back-up for Akron Conrad Taylor (Colorado Springs, Colo.; Liberty HS). -- 5'8 rising junior; 1st team all-Big 10 in 05 VERDICT: Two of the four are very good, but none are tall -- the usual pattern w/ YNT keepers. --- Def Eddie Gaven (Hamilton, N.J.; Steinert HS) -- Columbus Crew attacking mid, has US caps Kyle Helton (Alpharetta, Ga.; Milton HS) -- rising senior starter at Duke; not all-conference in 05 Colin Kirk (Aurora, Ill.; West Aurora HS) -- whereabouts unknown; briefly on Missouri State roster Cameron Lewis (Alpharetta, Ga.; Chattahoochee HS), -- rising junior at North Carolina; not a starter in 05 Dwight Owens (Murrieta, Calif.; Murrieta Valley HS) -- rising senior at UCLA; 2nd team All-Pac-10 in 05 Bernard Rahming (Milwaukee) -- rising junior at Vermont; not a starter in 05 Chase Wileman (Grand Prairie, Texas; Grand Prairie HS). -- rising senior at St. Louis; not a starter in 05 VERDICT: The only good "defender" was Gaven, who isn't cut out for defense. Owens is good physically but under-skilled. --- Mid Juan Carlos Cardenas (Richmond, Calif.; Richmond HS) -- fizzled David Druckman (Hazlet, N.J.; Raritan HS), -- rising junior at Columbia; not a starter in 05 Maurice Edu (San Bernadino, Calif.; Etiwanda HS), -- rising junior at Maryland; 2nd-team all-ACC in 05 Christopher Germani (Yardley, Pa.; Pennsbury) -- rising junior who just transferred from UNC to Penn State Jose "Trini" Gomez (Inglewood, Calif.) -- Rising senior at Loyola Marymount; honorable mention all-WCC in 05 Thomas Gray (Red Bank, N.J.; Middletown HS) -- couldn't find any info Brian Grazier (Edwardsville, Ill.; Edwardsville HS) -- rising junior at St. Louis; injury redshirt in 05 Andrew Harrison (Roanoke, Va.) -- rising senior at UVa; not a starter in 05 Stephen King (Medford, N.J.; Shawnee HS), -- rising junior starter at Maryland; not all-conference in 05 Alec Lemmon (Lawrence, Kan.) -- incoming freshman(?) at MidAmerica Nazarence Olatomiwa Ogunsola (Morgantown, W. Va.; University HS) -- rising senior at James Madison; part-time starter in 05 Brandon Oot (Lafayette, N.Y.; Manlius Pebble Hill) -- whereabouts unknown; played defense for St. John's in 04 Matthew Valimont (Perkasie, Pa.) -- whereabouts unknown; was listed on St. John's roster Michael Videira (Milford, Mass.; Mt. St. Charles Academy) -- rising junior starter at Duke; first-team all-ACC in 05 Bradley Yuska (Corte Madera, Calif.; Marin Academy). -- went first to IU then Cal but never played. Verdict A lot of busts, but Edu, King, and Videira seem decent enough. --- Fwd Corey Ashe (Virginia Beach, Va.; Kellam HS) -- Rising senior starter at UNC; not all-conference in 05 Brent Beavan (Plano, Texas; Sheptow HS) -- played(plays?) at Midwestern State; currently a mid w/ Raleigh Elite in PDL Nicholas Colaluca (Coventry, R.I.; LaSalle Academy) -- rising senior starting mid at UVa; 2nd-team all-ACC in 05 David Gomez (Dallas; Lake Highlands Freshman Ctr.) -- whereabouts unknown; was recruited by SMU Guillermo Gonzalez (Paramount, Calif.; Bosco HS) -- with LA Galaxy, a-mid who never plays Michael Harrington (Greenville, N.C.; JH Rose HS) -- rising senior starter at UNC; member 05 U-20 squad; 2nd-team all-ACC in 05; now plays outside back(?) Christian Jimenez (San Dimas, Calif.; San Dimas HS) -- with Real Salt Lake, now a-mid Brandon McDonald (Glendale, Ariz.; Cactus HS) -- rising junior defender at San Francisco; honorable mention all-WCC in 05 Miguel Silva (Watsonville, Cailf.) -- terrific HS player, but afaik, didn't play college Eric Vogl (Fayetteville, Ga.; Fayette County HS). -- rising red-shirt junior defender at UNC-Charlotte; not a starter in 05 VERDICT: Weak-looking forward group; only Ashe still plays that position, and IMO, his pro chances are hurt by it.
To pile on with the calendar thing once again, the two who at this point appear to be the best prospects were second half of the year birthdates--Gaven (October) and Jimenez (November). I guess the top prospect for that birthyear (Spector) was not yet identified for national team purposes.
I'm not sure I understand the point of this thread. If you are suggesting that a lot of highly touted 14 & 15 year olds never quite pan out, well, it's about the same in most other footballing nations, even those that have considerably better youth programs. That's why the net is set very, very wide in many European nations so that anyone with the remotest degree of talent is given the opportunity to train, mature, etc. With such a large sampling there's a better statistical probability that eventually some of the players will become elite players. I realize that the Fed is trying to identify players as early as possible, but all you can say about a player at 14 is if he has some ability. Beyond that, it's extremely difficult to predict if he will mature and develop enough to become a quality Div 1 player, let alone a pro.
i've caught a few of corey ashe's pdl games he plays for the va beach submariners he has helped carry a team made up of mostly local boys including former u17 nt keeper evan newton from what i 've seen i really like ashe's courage and ability to run at defenders after a few times they get beat a couple of times and they're terrified of him they give him space what he lacks in size he more than makes up for with quickness and his quickness on the ball he has the fastest feet i've seen of any player in pdl or college level
Almost all the best athetes at the U14 age are players who will be short to medium height as adults. They are temporarily tall, powerfully built, agile, and explosive, and they eat up the other kids. My guess is that Spector as a tall adult wasn't on the U14 national roster because he wasn't able to hang with those guys physically at that age. Probably too lanky and weak, not yet coordinated enough. Just a guess.
Yep. ... just to add, the most over-hyped kid in the bunch was Memo, DOB Jan 4. To get some empirical evidence for people to look at and hopefully test out their opinions. Obviously, it's a small sample, but info builds up over time. There are lots of patterns out there. Wouldn't surprise me ... gotta wonder about the possible value of bone scans and other ways to predict future physical development.
I remember reading a story a long time ago about Australia recruiting a girls' rowing team strictly based on physical characteristics, e.g., the ratio of upper arm length to forearm length, upper leg/lower leg, in addition to height, weight, lung capacity, etc. Presumably the girls had to have some interest as well, but interested girls lacking the specific physical characteristics sought were turned away. Anyway, as I remember the story, they took girls who had never rowed before and developed a championship crew very quickly, first of Australia, then Asia, in just two or three years. Looking for that story on the Internet, I found an old article on young Autralian swimmers. Soccer is a team sport, and good soccer players have varied physical characteristics, but the approach is still interesting. Note especially the list of factors and the key (last) paragraph, highlighted below: In Australia there have been several TALENT IDENTIFICATION AND DEVELOPMENT (TID) models trialed on a mass scale. Some individual sports, such as rowing, have been successful in recent years. However, a sport such as rowing will identify potential elite competitors at a rather advanced stage of physical development (i.e. typically 15-18 years of age). Because swimming is a highly technical movement sport the development of skilled swimming technique must begin at a much younger age. Other TID schemes, such as Talent Search (a Sports Commission program administered in schools across Australia) are too generic in nature. They fail to identify specific skill components associated with swimming. The work of Bill Sweetenham, David Pyne, and Bill Nelson at the Australian Institute of Sport in the late 1980's produced a sport specific application of TID characteristics. The problem with implementing such a model is that without the proper sport infrastructure (i.e. support at several organisational levels) it's impossible to test on a wide enough basis. Infrastructure also means that involvement from the learn-to-swim segment of the aquatics industry is paramount to a successful TID program. This would require a very large commitment, with no guarantee of a significant return (i.e. there is no way of knowing if additional 'talented swimming athletes' could be supported through their development to elite level). Many factors influence the relative success of a TID program, these include: the ability to identify potential athletes at an early age (perhaps at 10-12 years of age), the ability to anticipate physical growth and development, the ability to guarantee a positive support structure (i.e. from parents, peers, coaches, etc.), the ability to isolate the potential athlete's interest to the sport of swimming (remember that a 'talented' swimmer may also be a talented runner or netballer), the ability to provide a quality coaching environment (i.e. for example, if a potential swimmer lives 100km from the nearest swimming pool there is a real problem!). It has been said that, "The best form of TID is mass participation". The best way to identify talent is to have large numbers of young children exposed to quality learn-to-swim programs and then to keep them in the sport during the age-group years. This recognises that talented athletes will mature at different rates and some will be 'found' as 13 year-olds and others will be 'discovered' as 16 or 17 year-olds. Much of the success of TID in Australia relies on the 'educated-eye' of the Swimming Coach. However, the educated-eye must act in consort with the professional knowledge of the coach with regard to talent development. A coach's understanding of how swimmers develop and progress during their sporting lifetime is the cornerstone of talent development. ----------------------- The article is pretty long, and it's not at all recent. I'll see what else I can find, particualrly something soccer-specific. If anyone else finds something, I'd love to see it. Here's the classic opening line, a truth not limited to swimming: 'Many great coaches are discovered once they have uncovered a talented swimmer.' http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cach...+girls+ratio+arm+leg&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=3
well again i'll say we should get away from having to make decisions on players at this age. I'd like to see the u14 and u15 national programs extended throughout the country, in cooperation with the elite youth clubs.
Quick look at how this group developed over the years at the youth team level. In the fall of 2001, the first players started joining Bradenton. 86's Joining Bradenton in fall 0f 2001 (18 players total in residency) comments by Ellinger in fall of '01: Corey Ashe Phil Marfuggi - “Phil is very strong and very in control of the penalty box. He is a very solid shot stopper. Tactically, as a goalkeeper, he is improving every day.” Eric Vogl Eddie Gaven Guillermo Gonzalez - “’Memo’ is a predominantly left-footed player. Tactically he is very aware as a central midfielder where the play needs to go and he enable us to establish a flow and to constantly change the point of attack.” Michael Harrington - “Mike has one of the highest work rates on the team, and he combines that with tremendous pace. He is very good beating defenders 1 v 1 and is a solid finisher. He is constantly improving his ability to combine with other players at this level.” Brandon Owens - “Brandon is a very solid center back who has almost all of the physical qualities you could want in a central defender. He is excellent in the air and is a strong tackler. He has excellent pace, and he reads the game very well.” Tomiwa Ogunsola - “Tomiwa has excellent pace and great acceleration. As a right back he is very dangerous going forward because he combines well, and he can beat players on the dribble. He is another player who is learning to play the position we are asking him to play, but he is doing it very effectively.” Not listed by numerista, but travled with U14 to Mexico in 2000 and is listed as part of U14 pool in Bio in 2001: DiRaimondo, John - “John plays with a great deal of poise and savvy for a 15-year old. He’s very talented as a wide player, and technically he’s very gifted. As a wide player, he’s an excellent server of the ball.” Players from Numerista's list who never made residency: GK: Kristen Gonzalez, David Simolike and Conrad Taylor DEF: Colin Kirk, Bernard Rahming MF: Juan Carlos Cardenas, David Druckman, Maurice Edu, Thomas Gray, Alec Lemmon, Matthew Valimont, Michael Videira, Bradley Yuska F: Brent Beavan, David Gomez, Miguel Silva Seems like many of the busts for sure didn't make residency and might have not been included in later youth teams. Two odd ones on here are Videira and Edu. Videira has made many youth teams but for some reason Elinger never saw anything in him, though he played up and down with the U18s under Glenovitch. Edu, not sure his story. 86' residency players not on Numerista's list: Adrian Chevannes- defender at SMU after transferring from Clemson Steve Curfman - Oct 86, Wake Forest Starter started all 20 games, U17 WC member Jacob Peterson - Jan 86, Indiana 3rd team all-american, member of U17 WC team Jonathan Spector - West Ham, member of U17 WC team Jamie Watson - Real Salt Lake, member of the U17 WC team Three new players brought in became future pros, not too bad. Players missed until the U20 WYC team are, Wynne, Nyguen and Ochoa.
Great info in general, but I do have Harrington listed above. IIRC, davide posted that until he had a late growth spurt, he was viewed as too small.
Comment is meant for John DiRaimondo, the "*" next to Harrington was a mistake , it is off the USSoccer site meaning he made the U17 WC team. I corrected my post to help it make more sense.
Ah, gotcha. FWIW, DiRo's not on the list I pulled from socceramerica.com, although he is in a separate list of 2000 ODP All-Americans. Everybody else on that list was included in my first post, except for a Florida kid named Enrique Llanos (don't know anything else on him).
I agree. The only thing that makes even a smidgen of sense is to have a constant camp, but rotate players in for a month at a time. With some middle schools being year round, and tutoring, they probably could take care of parents' concerns about education. Then, the kids would take what they've learned playing at a higher level, playing faster, using more advanced tactical ideas, back to their club teams, and raise the whole level of the club.
The Bradenton system has been in place long enough now that we can start to make some statements about what percentage of eventual senior team members are identified by the U17, U20 teams or later. From the first three Bradenton cohorts here is how it breaks down in terms of future senior nats (and yes I'm doing a little projecting here): U17-Donovan, Beasley, Onyewu, Convey, Johnson, Mapp, Marshall, Spector, Gaven, Szetela, Adu U20-Dempsey, Clark, Nguyen, Wynne, Feilhaber Later-Rolfe, Pearce It is interesting to note that 11 of the 18 on this list made the U17 team. Pearce spent some time at Bradenton but made neither the U17 nor the U20 teams, partly because of injuries. Dempsey and Nguyen make the U20s but were buried on the bench of those teams. So you could argue that they "emerged" later. From all this I would conclude that about two-thirds of future nats are already well-known by the U17 level. I'd go beyond that from the list above and say that they are the stars of the U17 team. Most of the remaining third will be known by the U20 level, though not necessarily stars at that level. Finally, the original post suggests that at the U14 level there is little predictive power as to future nats. It would seem that the three years between U14 and U17 do a lot to clarify who's gonna make it at the highest level and who isn't. Still it would be interesting to do the same excercise with other U14 groups to see how foggy the crystal ball is at that level.
I sympathize with what you're saying, but I'm also wary about funneling resources through the elite clubs. Aren't their players pretty well served already? I do think it'd be great if the USSF could develop a carrot-and-stick approach that incentives elite clubs to branch out to ... 1. a wider geographic area 2. a fuller economic spectrum But politically, such a system would be hard to implement. It could just end up making the rich richer without producing better players.
It is. That is an extraordinary high figure. In contrast, maybe 2 of Brazil's 1997 World Champion U17 squad would get a sniff at a Brazilian cap. Our figure is inflated in part because our player pool lacks the depth of Brazil, and in part because of the opportunites afforded to the Bradenton players. Take Bobby Convey's or Eddie Gaven's unknown twin who is an identical player but who never went through the Bradenton mechanism, and it's quite likely you'd have two guys who aren't yet on the USMNT radar.
You make a good point, but at the same time, when England and Brazil's U-15s faced off at Wembley few years ago, it was Owen versus Ronaldinho. It's one of those logic things that takes a while to sink in ... 1. The best youth players rarely turn into the best senior players. 2. The best senior players were frequently among the best youth players. In spite of #1 being true, it might still be worthwhile to operate a program like Bradenton. There is real value in providing the best possible environment to the Landon Donovans, Freddy Adus, and Josie Altidores of US soccer.
I´m not sure if this is right place to post it. But in Germany many soccer clulbs have youth teams. For example Bayer Leverkusen (this is my team, team where Landon Donovan, Claudio Reyna and Frankie Hejduk played too) have very good yough sections : "The youth department of Bayer 04 Leverkusen is one of the most recognised of it’s kind in Germany and has also got a very good name throughout Europe. The heart and soul of the department are the ten full time employees along with the 60 part time and honoury employees, who are always trying to optimise their work with the approximately 150 (under 9s to under 19s) talented youngsters" Recently have six players from the own youth team have made it into Bayer 04’s professional squad for the 2005/2006 season. Bayer 04 is also very proud about the numerous former youth team players that have signed contracts with other professional teams both in Germany and abroad in the last few years." more news: http://www.bayer04.de/en/index2.htm here about Bayer youth centers: http://www.bayer04.de/en/index2.htm They have teams in these age categories: U19 U17 U15 U14 U13 U12 U11 U10 U9 U8 I´m not sure if something like this exist in the USA. Do MLS teams have youth team sections? How does work young soccer in the USA? Viele Grüße aus Leverkusen bltleo
No surprise there if you knew how 13 year old forwards are selected - 1) Physical maturity 2) Aggression 3) Ability to blow by opponents with power, speed The first point is really the critical item. Heard from various kids (I have my sources) this week regarding four national and regional-level forwards who they have recently played against. Each of these four players are between 13 and 14 1/2 years old: 1) "He has hair on his back" 2) "He's huuuuuge" 3) "He has a pro bicyclist's legs - like Lance Armstrong" 4) "You should see his chest, he's totally ripped, he's gotta be doing weights." Of course, first touch and to some extent shooting technique are considered, but there are many, many kids with similar first touch to regional and national caliber forwards. There are very few who are as dominant athletically, though.
So here's a simplistic follow-up question: Are these particular coaches idiots, or are coaches generally hyper-competitive individuals who'll do anything in their power to win now? The two choices lead to very different solutions. In the one case, improvement is a matter of evaluating coaches and putting the best ones in charge. In the other case, improvement is a matter of changing the rules, e.g. actively forcing coaches to select a balanced age distribution.
Incentives. The inside scoop from a State ODP coach - There is a lot of pressure on the coaches to win. The Regional Coaches are not watching the teams that lose. Win and you will have four evaluators there to watch your team for 55 of the 70 minutes you are playing. Lose and the evaluators will watch maybe 15 minutes, miss most of your players, and you may be lucky to get one evaluator. It has been this way for years. This time it was expressly stated to the State coaches. Had not heard that before.
How do they figure out which region coaches watch what in the various regions? At region III camp each team has a region coach assigned to them to do a training session per day and to watch their game. That region coach also goes into the coaches' meetings when pool players are selected. As far as I know, all of the region coaches watch the pool games. At least every team has a region coach paying some attention to them. Unfortunately, some region coaches are better than others about going to bat for the players that they've been watching in the coaches' meetings (or so it seems).