As I said in an earlier post start preparing him to have the discipline. Does he have a consistent bed time? Even on weekends? Does he train on his own? Even when he doesn't want to? Do you have a training program for soccer skills that you could show him and he can take ownership in a few weeks and train on his own? How about a physical training program? By 3rd grade my son was doing specific soccer training on his own 90% of the days of the year. Im not talking about playing at recess but a specific program for skill development. Around middle school we started physical programs. Many here might say that I pushed him. To a certain extent I did. But it was always for him to take over at some point. As a dad you want/need to show them the discipline of how to do things but at some point he had to take it over if he wanted to advance. If he didn't have the discipline, that would be fine. I wanted to provide him with a chance. If he didn't develop that discipline he wouldn't have achieved, in soccer, as much as he has. So you need to begin preparing him for the next stage of his career especially the mental side. You dont want him to have to figure it out when he has relied on some 'fun' work and God given abilities and things get tough. He will need something to fall back on and that is the discipline of work that will need to be internalized or it will be too late.
My kids were not elite athletes and the kids I coach aren't elite soccer players, but they definitely know what they like and want. As others have noted, you can't force the drive that separates the truly elite --I am thinking of the young teen I see most weeks when I play pickup in the early morning. He is there with his cones and bag of balls doing his thing-- no coach, no parent present
Change the word "talent" to "potential" I think the biggest disconnect for you is you believe that development is linear both for your son and everyone else you see. It is not. You haven't been around long enough to see that "short, slow and pudgy kid" hit puberty and come out of nowhere at U15/U16 and surpass kids who you thought were studs. You have the experience, comp and player pool of one child that you are drawing some serious assumptions about the process. You are 5 years into this and you have yet to actually hit a competitive level. Your son has been playing 7v7 with build out lines and scoring against kids who are rotating in as keeper. I'm sorry, but it is easy to look advanced at this age. But to sit there with a straight face and say things like: "Maybe he maxes out at the college level or USL" and then "Could be that he also ends up choosing baseball over soccer in a few years. And maybe a similar outcome there, college or minor leagues." At 15 or 16 years old if he is playing at a high level and and dominating I would say what you are saying is both possible but achievable, with good fortune and some luck. But to say this at 10 years old while playing in local leagues at a 7v7 level designed to teach your eyes and ego are deceiving you. You have zero experience at playing any sport at the highest levels so you really don't know what it looks like. You haven't followed kids though the process to see how they develop and achieve various level of success. I have watched little kids grow and make the NT. I have watched little kids grow and get invites to trials at BPL clubs and play in MLS academies. And if you had achieved that level of success or witnessed it first hand in others you would be the first to admit that at 10 years old you cannot identify it either. What you can do is support your son, stay grounded and be patient. One foot in front of the other. Value people who are honest and you can trust. Not everyone who says he is amazing is right or honest and not everyone who says he can't make it are not necessarily honest or knowledgeable to make a prediction. It is your son's journey to make but don't rush it. The one thing every parent of the highest achieving players I know are absolutely the most humble parents on the sideline. They are the most complimentary of the other players.
Does he have a consistent bed time? Not really. Its hard to be consistent because he has soccer practice then dinner and homework. On weekends, it depends on what's going on and if he has to get up early for a game. Training: I give him drills to do on his own. Physical training - I don't think he really needs much of that because he has been playing 2 sports (baseball and soccer) and so he gets physical training at those practices. At his age I think that is enough. Plus he does other stuff like swimming since its summer. In the winter he does snowboarding. He also rides bike with him mom. And he also plays various things at recess but usually its just wiffle ball or 4-square which aren't very strenuous, but they work on hand-eye coordination and foot-eye because in his version of 4-square they can use the feet, like juggling. I might have him do some running at the high school track. We used to a bit of that. His running is ok. But I want to see where he stands and how his endurance is over a half-mile, mile. But before baseball (ie 2nd sport) yes he was training more at home with me. But its hard to find the time. But when there is time we do some training. A variety of skills. Sometimes just working on various moves, and sometimes on shooting, shielding, first touch, etc. We rotate through all the skills. And a lot of position specific. Like if he's on the wing, cut in and shoot to the far post for ex. Or if he's playing midfield then scan, receive, shield, turn, pass.
Yes that kid is a teen though. Maybe my kid will be like that kid in a few years. And maybe not, will just have to wait and see. For now, I go to the field with him and train him.
I think you are missing my point. What I want to understand is if MLS Next allows a kid to play another sport. This decision will come very soon, sooner than 6 years. As soon as in 1 year, but more likely in 2 years. This is a key decision, a fork in the road, which will affect his entire high school path, and hence college path as well.
Not saying that it's the case for your kid, but I think one of the most incorrect cliches is the sentiment that you hear is about someone having "the talent but not the discipline". If they didn't have the discipline, they never had the talent in the first place. Discipline and work ethic are one of the elements of talent and really shouldn't be considered separately. Natural talent is the combination of all the personal elements that can lead to success in an endeavour.
But I have seen it. A kid who used to play pickup soccer with us, when he was age 10, now he is in an MLS academy. So I have seen him grow. And other kids I have seen similarly grow up. Some did not get to a high level. Everyone has a different path and that's ok. My little brother played college soccer, and he wasn't nearly as good as me and i'm not nearly as good as my kid. So that should tell you something. Not sure why you keep saying my kid is not playing at a competitive level. He's at the biggest club in our city and he's on the top team. He's facing off against the top competition. Not to mention we play top teams from other cities in tournaments. Teams from the bay area which is a big market of millions of population. And no not all teams in 7v7 rotate in as keeper. Many teams actually have a dedicated keeper, which I think is not good for that kid, but that's not my problem. He is playing 9v9 now with NO build out line. He just did 3 games of this and he did very well, scoring in each game and getting 2 assists as well. Yes I agree that some kids will fall off the radar, and some kids will sprout out of nowhere. Nothing can be predicted for sure. But its a different day and age than perhaps you are used to. 12u baseball there are kids who are 6 feet tall and getting looks from colleges. In soccer there was a 14 yr old, Cavan Sullivan, which just scored a "professional" goal. And Lamine Yamal at age 16 is the youngest to score a goal for Spain in the Euros. So, your timeline does not always hold true. You should not apply that timeline rigidly to all kids. If you do that then you may not be giving certain kids the attention and development they deserve. Some are on a different time line.
If they didn't have the discipline, they never had the talent in the first place. I don't understand this statement. It is certainly not true. Many people have talent but not discipline. Many people have work ethic but not talent. This has been studied and discussed ad naseum. There are many players who were very talented but did not go far due to a lack of discipline in their training. And there are players who were less talented than them who out worked them. Not just in soccer. And not just in sports, it happens in all aspects of life.
Even if there aren't rules expressly forbidding playing another sport, once of high school age it becomes logistically difficult. MLS and MLSNext programs are 10 month programs and real academies will have no less than 4 practices a week. You could get away with it in middle school but high school is a different animal. Also, rules are different for different kids. If a player is an absolute stud a coach might begrudgingly allow multiple sports if the schedules don't conflict that much. If a player isn't that important the same thing can happen. But, the truth is, as much as you want to know now, it depends on your kids coach and the club expectations. And that is why it is too soon to ask. High School soccer will most likely be a no go for the foreseeable future. The no high school rule for Girls DA was a real hot button issue but it isn't the same on the boys side. But as a matter of practicality, the soccer schedule of a MLS, MLSNext or ECNL soccer player is pretty prohibitive of outside distractions once in high school. Many MLS academy players do home schooling through online schools due to the demands of the MLS schedule. Traditional schools can be difficult especially if there are any NT duties thrown in. Adding a week to two week US Soccer camps and international tournaments make traditional school difficult to keep up. So while it is good to have a feel for that now, it honestly isn't a bridge you'll be crossing anytime soon and you really don't need to worry about it now. On top of that, the soccer landscape changes quickly and dramatically. Everything I just said could be outdated in two years.
I think you have the right idea, but discipline and work ethic are just one of the elements of natural talent -- really not separate from it. Just as some point you can't teach someone to run any faster, you can say the same about being committed or disciplined in any activity. Having natural talent in one area can compensate for a deficiency in natural talent in another area, but really they are all just elements of the same thing -- natural talent.
Because nothing at U10 is "competitive". I don't care about the team or club at U10 or U11. These are developmental ages and everyone he is playing against are all far from finished products. Organized soccer development come in three phases: U7-U13- Technical- This phase is focused on developing the basic technical skills to play soccer. The early portion is best known for "me and my ball from U5-U7. U14-U15 - Formative (MLS ID)- This phase focuses on forming a competitive team and introducing tactical elements of play and a playing in a system. U16+ - Competitive- This phase focuses on training to compete. So, to put it bluntly, your kid is closer to "me and my ball" than he is to the focus on competing and winning. If you focus as a parent on the team results versus your son learning you're doing it wrong. Bigger clubs stay big through results and huge player pools but many large clubs take developmental shortcuts to keep paying parents happy. They tend to point out their trophies above all else. Yes, there are a handful of kids, a handful out of MILLIONS who are playing. The real timeline holds. If you are suggesting that your kid, which is who we are talking about, is on their path I think we need to stop here
I'm sorry, and not trying to sounds mean, but you have fundamental misunderstanding of natural talent. Natural talent is about genes. It has nothing to do with discipline and work ethic. Let's just take a very simple example. If you take 2 people, any age, who have had the exact same experiences, and you put them on a track to race each other, one will come out ahead. Let's say runner A is faster. That is natural talent. Now maybe you do the race one year later. If runner B has been working hard to get faster for the entire year and runner A has done nothing but eat junk food and watch TV, then runner B may be faster at that point. That is an example of hard work beating natural talent. (though if runner A has the same genes as Usain Bolt, then runner A probably still wins) I think even @The Stig might agree with me on this one. Freddie Adu was a clear case of someone who had a lot of natural talent from a very early age. But he did not take training serious, and this he admits was his downfall. He said in an interview that there were guys less talented than him who just worked harder and therefore had more successful careers.
It doesn't matter if my kid is playing "me and my ball" which I would argue he is not. You're putting every 10 yr old in America in the same boat. Some play quite a high level of ball. Anywho - what matters is his standing relative to his peers. His standing relative to a "competitive" 16 year old means nothing because that is not who he is competing against. And when college comes he will not be coming against anyone but the kids in his age group. SO, therefore, as long as he is in the top of his age group, as the age group gets older, if he stays in the top then he will have a shot. Maybe you have not seen comp soccer at 9 and 10 year old level lately. There are some good quite talented players who are playing real soccer. Not me and my ball. Parents aren't paying comp clubs thousands of dollars to have their kid play me and my ball, they would just keep them in rec.
A part of talent comes with work ethic. Freddie Adu is a complicated case because there are still rumors of him lying about his age. You need talent, work ethic and luck to succeed. Luck can be simply born into the right household that is affluent and lives in a area with great soccer. Luck can be manifested in many serendipitous things. The biggest stroke of luck is to stay healthy. Speed training can improve your personal limitations but genetics plays the biggest role in speed or athleticism. Usain Bolt famously ate McDonalds Chicken McNuggets during the Olympics. He trusted them. [:Shoulder shrug:] You cannot train beyond your genetic limits but you certainly can improve. You can always be smarter or work harder.
LOL. You have no idea how much filtering of players happens by U15. For all of the City and regional U10 teams your son is playing against each team MIGHT have one or two players capable of making the MLS academy in your area. And that gets filtered even more when by U15 kids start moving in from 3 or more hours away. Again, you don’t know what you don’t know. You really won’t know where your kid stacks up until he begins playing at a national level. You’re hitting the milestones but the jury is still out.
I am aware of the filter. I am aware of the academies in our state. I'm engrained in the soccer community and I have plenty of friends and contacts in soccer. Yes hitting the milestones is all we can do. Until we miss a milestone I won't have any reason to believe he can't play at a high level. You're default mentality is a pessimistic one. I try not to surround myself with negative thinkers. Also, you don't need to play at a MLS academy to play at a D1 school. I talked to the HC at a D1 school and he told me where he gets kids from.
You’re right. I’m wrong. You win. Your kid is the next two sport D1 unicorn. He’s 10 years old. You’ve been at for 5 whole years, going 9v9 now. What could we possibly know that you don’t already know?
Being someone who has worked with elite (National Champion level) endurance athletes, I would say that you have a common misunderstanding of gene expression. There is definitely some plasticity in work ethic and discipline, but the capacity for disciplined and hard work at the highest levels -- especially the ability to suffer -- is most likely genetically determined. Environment can often modify the expression of psychological tendencies and traits, but so many things, e.g., ADHD, OCD, are most likely genetically linked -- just as traits that we society often considers more benign -- work ethic or discipline.
I never said he would make D1. Playing two sports in college for even the best athletes would be very difficult, due both to scheduling and the time commitment as well as the talent required. I would say he's got maybe a 5-10% chance of playing a sport at Stanford. If you expand it out to all D1 schools then its more like 25%. If you expand out to all schools in including Juco then it is more like 80%. To play 2 D1 sports would be more like 1% chance.
I wonder how useful this explanation of generic vs environmental determinants really is. Given your examples, what traits AREN’T genetically linked? Under what circumstances can you imagine an athlete (or anyone else) starting and sustaining disciplined, hard work at the highest levels without the right environment?
I'm not clear on the point you are trying to make. There is natural (ie genetic) talent. There is training and development. To become a pro you need natural talent plus a lot of training and play and development which takes discipline. All of these things are on a spectrum. Some pros are at the high end of the spectrum on talent, but may slightly lack in training. And vice versa. Some are high in both. It doesn't matter that you have worked with elite athletes. That doesn't tell me you understand this topic. Can you link to a study, an article or video that illustrates your point, because again it's not clear to me. Genes matter and training matters. Do you agree or disagree? This doesn't require an expert to understand. Let's take some very simple examples. Take a litter of kittens. Do you believe that they are all born equal and that their "discpline" or "work ethic" are what are going to determine which become faster, more athletic (ie better reflexes, jump higher, etc)? Anyone who has had a litter of kittens can see genetic differences. Some are more aggressive in feeding and will crowd out other kittens. Some are more docile than others. Same with a litter of puppies. Some of them will be very close in these attributes, but usually you can see some differences. This has nothing to do with work ethic, I'm pretty sure Look at Michael Phelps. Do you think his genes didn't matter? He is built with a swimmer's body that helped in his performance. Long torso helps reduce friction in water. Long arms, etc. Yes he had to train a hell of a lot as you must do in any sport in order to get to the top. But the genes created a really good base to build on. Another thought experiment. Let's imagine Leo Messi and any other human, let's say Leo DiCaprio, were both to meet at age 8. Neither has ever played soccer, touched or even seen a soccer ball. You give them a soccer ball and setup 2 goals, explain the rules and tell them to play 1v1. Tell me how you imagine this experiment would go? Do you think they would be equal? Would there be no noticeable difference between them?
To play A D1 sport is a 1% chance. The acceptance rate at Stanford currently stands at 4%. I’m not sure where you get your numbers from but here is a sobering look at what the objective numbers really are. But then again, you’re right, you’ve watched kids play 7v7 and your kid is almost done with elementary school, so what do we know. https://scottmartinmedia.com/blogs/news/hes-a-d1-player-but-is-he-ncaa-d1-mens-soccer-data-analysis