Re: Re: Re: 11/2 Casey: Karlsruher @ MSV Duisburg [R] Who's mom and dad are paying for Casey to play for Karlsruher?
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Ausgezeichnet!!! By 2006 and with the skills and experience to displace McBride? I'll bet you one german beer that a 34 years young McBride will still be a part of the team, assuming he's healthy and we make it to Germany.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Ausgezeichnet!!! That beer is as good as yours. After watching Agoos playing in Korea, no doubt McB will be there. Even if others are better than McB, Arena will still bring in his old hands.
Casey has been a bit of a disappoinment this year. From the games I've seen, it would appear that his job is to stand at the top of the formation and score lots of goals. He hasn't socred lots of goals, which appears to be his only job with the team. I've seen him miss several that a player of his ability should easily score. He had high expectations, but he hasn't met them yet. He is clearly talented, but he needs to produce, especially if he is going to make it at the next level.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Ausgezeichnet!!! What nonsense! Arena has his opinions on players, but he does not have any particular tendency for young versus old. For the last time, Agoos played as well as anybody in MLS and for the USMNT in the qualifiers. What Arena was guilty of was: 1. Not noticing that Agoos' skills would be found wanting at a higher level; 2. not noticing that Agoos' skills had started to decline or 3. not knowing that Agoos would choke on the big stage. But, without hindsight, there was nothing irrational in bringing Agoos given what was know about the options at the time. P.S. There is no evidence yet that Conor Casey will be as good as Brian McBride (who just this year did well at the highest level of the club game). Casey has been disappointing at the Bundesliga 2 level according tyo most reoirts.
I just hope Casey doesn't turn out to be a flash in the pan. He's got the skill, no question, but he's missing something that I can't put a finger on. If he and his coaches can find the glitch in his game, I have no doubt that he can be a vital part of our national team. Production is equal to opportunity and Casey has to do better with his opportunites to fill his production expectations.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Ausgezeichnet!!! IMO, an interesting comparison is Oliver Bierhoff, who was almost exactly the same age in 2002 as McBride will be in 2006. Bierhoff made five appearances as a substitute and was very useful, especially when defending a lead.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Ausgezeichnet!!! Martin, As for Agoos, it was known by me and quite a few other s that Agoos was prone to the bone-headed mistake in big matches. Sure he's fine in MLS, but the speed of the game was certain to be higher at the world cup. A couple of other examples of the old guard or Arena's favorites - Cobi Jones and Richie Williams. Both had been exposed many times and who would be surprised to see either called back by Arena at this point? As for Conor, when the season is over and he's had a full, healthy season in Europe we should judge his productivity. I think his coach is pleased with his performance for the most part and knows that he has what it takes to help his club. Now is the 2nd bundesliga stronger than MLS..that's another discussion. I do think McBride would be a useful player off the bench, but we shouldn't expect a 34 year old to be our starting striker.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Ausgezeichnet!!! ??? 2 major problems: 1.Bierhoff was awfull in the WC2002, he wasn´t even abled to replace Jancker.... 2.in 1999 Bierhoff became Italian champion with Milan, while being the best scorer in his team with 19 goals. Do you think McBride is the same class????
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Ausgezeichnet!!! Yes. Put the 1999 McBride on a team like AC Milan he would have scored at the same rate.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Ausgezeichnet!!! Ah, the Big Soccer idiot factor. In 1999, Bierhoff was the best German forward. In 2003, McBride was arguably the best US forward. I don't think McBride is in the same class as Bierhoff, but -- here's the tricky part -- the US is not in the same class as Germany.
Let's see how Conor does for the 23s before we start penciling him into the national team lineup. And, let's see how he does the rest of the season. Yeah, I'm stoked he's scored three goals in the B2, but, it's ONLY three goals and its only B2.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Ausgezeichnet!!! Of course you realize that this weakness has nothing to do with age, so your argument is weak. I will grant that you "and quite a few others" have the better of this argument -- in hindsight. Of course, unlike you and "quite a few others", all of Arena's moves are in the public domain while all of us armchair experts can trot out those few occasions where we are correct. I would be surprised to se Richie Williams called back. You are aware that Williams did not make the World Cup team and that Arena went with Pablo Mastroeni in that position? On those occasions where Arena did use Williams (almost always in friendlies), he was not a bad choice and I note the Nats almost always played decently with Williams in the lineup. Who would you have called up -- Matt McKeon? As for Cobi, he was clearly one of the best 23 players the US had in 2002 and he played a useful role considering he was #19 on the squad or something like that. I would not be surprised to see Cobi back since there is so little quality on the right side, and the quality that there is -- Ralston and Stewart -- are as old as he is. I agree that we will have to wait and see about Casey, but the early returns -- be it statistics, Kicker ratings or anectodal reports -- are not good. I don't know how good McBride will be in 2006. But this puts in mind the following: above, you use the example of players like Jones and Williams as those that have been "exposed." To me, this is irrelevant. What is relevant, is what the options are. At forward, this scares me a lot. As alternatives, we have the following: Buddle -- looks OK in MLS, but no record internationally, except in Argentina with the Under 20s where he was crap. Mathis -- supposedly done. Wolff -- always hurt Razov -- limited and supposedly feuding with Arena Moore -- a shell of his former self, which was never that great Twellman -- the worst set of Nats debuts that I can remember Casey -- struggling in the 2nd Bundesliga. I won't rule anything out with this depth chart -- including McBride starting. Right now, after McBride and Donovan, our forward situation is grim.
I like Casey too. The speculation on McBride is a bit boring. Who knows to what degree his skills will erode by 2006. We'll just have to wait and see. Edson Buddle will start at striker for the USA in Germany '06 regardless of what these other two do. That's my prediction.
Hey! What flash? He was in the "pan" of the Olympics and showed the world that he didn't have what it takes. Eisern Union says in this thread that "he has been a bit of a disappointment" re-confirming the prevailing attitude here on BS during the last Olympics. If Bruce feels that he has progressed substantially relative to other domestic forwards, then you'll see him in USMNT camps. I, for one, am not expecting much from that quarter. Too many other young forwards with greater potential than Casey.
2006 is far away still, i don't think we can say for sure who our starting strikers will be. Just to name a few more here, what about Adu, and Taylor Twellman , Pat Noonan , Ante Rozov and who knows who else might spring up. I don't think Casey will be part of it.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Ausgezeichnet!!! Martin, this simply is not true. Buddle scored a very nice goal against Chile at the WYC in 2001. In the first game of that tournament, against China, he came off the bench in like the 70th minute and played well enough to warrant the start against Chile. He was strong against Ukraine in the next game but got hurt and didn't play in the Round of 16 game loss to Egypt. Not having Buddle available was one of the excuses U20 coach Wolfgang Sunholz said contributed to the loss of the game. Buddle also has experience with the 23s, most recently scoring the game-winning goal against Haiti and he'll be on display with them beginning later this month and going through, realsitically, the middle of February. He'll be a key factor with that team. It's also likely that had he been healthy, Arena would have had him in the El Salvador game last year and would have included him on either the roster he took to Confederations Cup or Gold Cup. As for Casey, I am pleased with the progress he's making. We'd all like to see him score more goals but if he picks it up a knotch he'll likely finish with about 10 goals in B2, which isn't bad. As for his inclusion with the senior team, let's wait and see how the rest of the season in B2, as well his time with the 23s, goes. If he shows well with either, we can start clamoring about whether he could, or should, replace McBride. Right now, the job is still Brian's to lose but guys like Casey and Buddle certainly have the talent to replace him, it's just a matter of when.
Sandon - you are entitled to your opinion, but mine is -- based on seeing every game on Galavision -- was that he was crap. It is a matter of opinion -- assuming you saw the games, not fact.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Ausgezeichnet!!! For the sake of accuracy, it's worth pointing out that Ralston is four years younger than Cobi, and five years younger than Earnie.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Ausgezeichnet!!! Hi Martin. I will partially disagree with these two points. I wasn't impressed with Buddle in the WYC, either, but I would assert that his game really took off after that showing, late in the 2002 MLS season. From that point on, when he has been healthy and playing regularly, he has been, IMO, one of the brightest prospects in Major League Soccer. On Casey, you say that judging by statistics, kicker ratings, and anecdotal evidence, he's been "struggling." I would assert that all three of those together add up the the white speck on the top of chicken shit. They mean nothing. You say that our forward situation is "grim." I wouldn't go that far. What I would agree with is that our forward situation is "unproven." I sincerely hope that over the next three years 3-4 more players step up and make a run for the position. I think Casey and Buddle both are good prospects to do so. Wolff has time to recover, and I would be willing to bet he is a factor in the upcoming qualification cycle. Over the next 2-3 years, I would also bet 2-3 other young players make a run for the team. But I, like you, think it is a pipe dream that McBride will simply fade into oblivion. He'll be a factor in qualification, and I would say he has a 70-80% shot of at least a role position, if not a starting job, on the 2006 team. To think that 4-5 younger guys will overtake him that quickly is, in my mind, unrealistic. I will finish by saying this, though. Our forward prospects are IMO much brighter this cycle than they were in the last. I think the quality and depth of the 4-5 forwards who will travel to Germany will be higher and deeper than their 2002 counterparts comprised of McBride, Donovan, (an injured and fat) Mathis, (a recovering) Wolff, and (a token invitation) Moore.
Arena has said that McBride is a very young 30. He takes very good care of himself and plays with a lot of spirit.His game never depended on sprinting speed( much like Reyna's).I have been a USA fan for a long time and we always hear how this and that young gun will be a mile better than player X on the USMNT. McBride is one of the very best USA players of all time, so I will believe someone displacing him when I see it.It will happen at some point but my guess it will not be any time soon.