Didn't Bruce praise MLS after 2002? To me the 2 best players in this years cup were Dempsey and Conrad and they both play in MLS. Bruce is just looking for excuses. He should look at himself first. I think people are wrong if they think moving players to Europe is suddenly going to create this great national team. The best way is to get better athletes to play soccer,have a better youth development system in this country and to continue to grow MLS.
My uninformed gut feeling is that one of the biggest reasons why we failed has to be confidence/experiance. There are other reasons, including a difficult draw, and coaching/strategy issues. I think our players who used to seem intimidated by the star players other teams could field now seemed intimidated by the stage of the world cup. I think the negative result in games 1 & 2 had a lot to do with coming out flat, and appearing awe struck. That is not MLS's fault and it is also not easily fixed by going abroad, although that would appear an option. There seems to be general agreement that we need a couple star level players who step up in the world cup if we want to advance. Players who don't feel like they need to prove anything, but rather just play. All that extra weight of trying to prove you have reached a new level only distracts our team. Our players can get rid of that in a couple of ways. One way is to play against the best everyday and consistently prove you are a threat.
He actually praised the MLS in all those pre WC interviews and talked about how far everyone has come. I really think he as well as the players were really caught up in all the hype and started to believe their own press releases and TV spots and commercials. When they got to Germany, they finally came back to planet earth and reality. At least we don't have to listen to all that talk of Keller being the best GK in the world, the USA being ranked #5 or what happened to the word "swagger"?
Eric Wynalda was talking out of his hat before and after the Cup. It seems like he is being a last word freak. But I guess he is paid to say something and I also believe he really doesn't care what he says because he is no longer in danger of losing his analyst job. Thomas Dooley said after WC 98 , everyone is quick to point the finger after the fact and there are hundreds of people telling you what you did wrong. The USMNT finished 25 out of 32 teams. I wonder if they will drop that far down in the FIFA rankings? Wynalda & Foudy picked them to win the group. I'm not sure if they were stricly analyzing or just wishful thinking.
Arena's absolutely right. MLS is a good starting point but it's inadequete as currently formed to develop top players. And none of the MLSers could start at a top 20 club in my opinion. There's just nothing on the line, no pressure, no scrutiny and nobody cares. Is Donovan ever going to get benched on the Galaxy? No. Do you think he'd get that if he played in one of the top 4 European leagues. Of course not. Hell even Frank Lampard's spot is under constant jeopardy with the influx of players to Chelsea. I don't think he'll lose his spot to Ballack but if he starts ********ing up i'm sure Jose wouldn't hesitate to sit fat frank. I you think there's world class players in MLS you crazy. MLS is the one still drinking the Koolaid.
To tell you the truth, I really think Eric & Julie were smokin it up in the back room at ESPN & dancing night away! She still looks pretty cute! GO4 it ERIC! You might get to score again b4 you're 40!
I don't disagree with what you say about MLS but for Arena to blame MLS on this teams failures is ludicrous. I could name about 10 other reasons that would rank ahead of that.
Contrary to what I & Arena have been saying Jovan Kirovski is one player who left for Europe at a young age and was in the Man United youth team with all the stars but never quite made it even though he played with some pretty big club's. He's played at United, Sporting, Dortmund. How many Americans on any of our World Cup teams since 1990(other than maybe Reyna), have ever really had a resume like his? I wondeer why he never made it. He seems to struggle even in the MLS. Maybe Europe isn't for everyone? https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=376351&page=3
If Arena is correct, why did DMB totally suck, and McBride was useless? Reyna was anything but a powerful force attacking, and Lewis was average at best. Now compare that with a guy named Deuce and another named Conrad, neither of them having ever played across the pond. Case closed. Bruce, go cry to someone else for your piss-poor managing. You totally wasted EJ, and you overemphasized McBride, going so far as to put in a single attacker formation. Sheer idiocy! ...And then there is your total neglect of Ching, and the fact that you didn't call up Twellman. Mind blowing! Reyna is retiring? Thank God. Most overrated player in the history of American soccer. European experience is a cure-all my ass!
I agree with you about Reyna. He never really impressed me either , just my opinion. McBride was as Arena called him "a warrior" but he also was a 34 years old forward from a 12th place EPL team. Unless you are a Zidane, Maradona, Baggio or Roger Milla, not too many players his age are still playing and/or starting for their national teams in a WC, not to mention at center forward! Ching is an opportunist but he would have been lost in this team as he would need production from the midfield. The same goes for Taylor. They wouldn't have accomplished much with this group.
1) In the past, Arena has stated that being on a European club and never being able to start a game wasn't as beneficial as playing week-in and week-out. 2) I wonder what people will do when AEG is down to 3 teams and the league is up to 13 (both should happen by next year)...
You don't count the 9 goals in his first 10 games with Saauerbruecken, and then 12 the following year. After that he was sold him to Bochum. Some distinctions that Eric has that Landon doesn't: 1) Still the all-time goals leader for the national team (though Donovan and McBride are close) 2) Was named to the 1995 All-Copa America Team (probably more difficult than to win praise at the U-17 WYC) 3) Considering Wynalda was injury-prone and on the 'downside' of his career, I think 24 goals and 22 assists in MLS is decent. Landon currently has double that in his MLS career. And, Landon has a few MLS championships.
I don't know if this makes any sense to anyone or not. I've always been a fan of high level top club soccer and although I enjoy the World Cup, I have always stated that national team games are not as good as club level soccer. Either its becuase the players don't play together year around or maybe because they only seem to play 5 times a year in Europe, anyway. Either way, I just listed most of Germany's roster and 14 of the 23 players are playing with 5 Bundesliga clubs. Can it also be not only that these guys play on top club's but becuase it would seem that 3-4 different groups of starters always play together and jell easier? I mean I saw a clip on Fritz Walter in the 1954 WC GMY won and supposedly the mayor said his club who had 4 starters on the team said his club team won the WC less 7 guest players. I'm just saying if the same players play each other all the time also on a top team like Bayern then they will all know each other and play better soccer. Just a thought. DF Marcell Jansen 4 November 1985 7 Borussia Mönchengladbach FW Oliver Neuville 1 May 1973 59 Borussia Mönchengladbach 6 DF Jens Nowotny 11 January 1974 46 Bayer 04 Leverkusen MF Bernd Schneider 17 November 1973 68 Bayer Leverkusen MF Tim Borowski 2 May 1980 24 Werder Bremen MF Torsten Frings 22 November 1976 56 Werder Bremen FW Miroslav Klose 9 June 1978 59 Werder Bremen FW Lukas Podolski 4 June 1985 29 Bayern Munich DF Philipp Lahm 11 November 1983 22 Bayern Munich MF Bastian Schweinsteiger 1 August 1984 32 Bayern Munich GK Oliver Kahn 15 June 1969 85 Bayern Munich MF Sebastian Kehl 13 February 1980 29 Borussia Dortmund DF Christoph Metzelder 5 November 1980 25 Borussia Dortmund FW David Odonkor 21 February 1984 3 Borussia Dortmund
Excellent point! There are so many intangibles that go into making a World Cup-winning team that it's silly to try to lay the blame on any one factor, no matter how easily identifiable it is. I think the players' experience together is a great indicator of future performance since, after all, this is a team sport. How many times did the US World Cup starting roster play together in the run-up to the Cup? This is going WAY out on a limb, but what are the chances that an all-MLS squad would have done better simply because they could all train and play together in warm-ups from November through May? Having US soccer players good enough to play on the best Euro clubs would be fantastic but it is also no guarantee of World Cup success. After all, England hasn't won Euro or the World Cup since 1966, and no one would suggest that the EPL isn't at the highest level. Ditto Italy since 1982 (although they did reach some finals)--and how many Brazilians play for Chelsea, Arsenal, and Man U? Many of the best Brazilians play for Barcelona and Real Madrid, yet Spain has never won a World Cup (and only 1 Euro in 1964).
I think Brazil is one exception and they get away with it, they however are Brazil. Most of France's players played between 97-2000 in Italy during their run. I think at one point Trezeguet , Zidane and Deschamps all played on Juve together and then Thuram came in to take Deschamps place so there was always a bond that they took over to the national team not to mention the experience gained by playing at big clubs in Italy. In 1982 you had Italy led by mostly Juventus players. Zoff , Cabrini, Tardelli,Scirea, Causio with Rossi who had returned after a 2 year lay off to score a few goals at the end of the season with Juve. This years Azzurri has Juve players Buffon, Cannavaro, Zambrotta, DelPiero, Camoranesi, then you have Inzaghi, Gattuso, Nesta all on AC Milan. Arigo Sacchi in 1994 had picked 95 different players but in the he ended up picking most of the guys who were with him at both Milan and Parma. So yes a lot of these guys know each other pretty well. I've stated before in other threads that the USMNT has a luxury of playing together at least 20 times a year. This however, is a little misleading. Bruce Arena has continued to tinker with the lineup. If you see Taylor Twellman being lauded during the run up earlier this year with Brian Ching hardly playing or being picked. Arena's 59 picks are nowhere around. Last summer he had priased the play of Santino Quaranta as a starter then never picked him again. In the 4 year run he has had Cobi Jones and Ernie Stewart and they were both wasted picks. What's the point of picking these players to play at all if they will not do much for anyone other than lend a little experience? Also the games between Cups are litterally international friendly matches between bread and butter teams and there is no major tournament other than the GOLD CUP , which really has only one tough opponenet in Mexico and maybe 1 or 2 others and that is it.
Yes I remember the 9 goals in his first 10 games with Saauerbruecken, although I don't remember the 12 the following year. I do remember that 6 of those 12 goals were 2 hat tricks in the beginiing then he scored a toal of 6 in spurts. Yes you are right by the time he came to the MLS he was already in his prime or past it and his trouble Calloway and then Sampson didn't help his on the field form. I was at the first practice of the San Jose Clash after he scored the winning goal and he and Laurie were at each others throats. He just couldn't cope with an Englishman's hard nosed coaching tactics. If you notice, he never mentions any of his coaches he has had at least not since he stopped playing. At least Landon doesn't talk much and maybe takes more responsibility and I respect that.
Falvo, I think your post above brings up a subtle and more interesting question: do World Cup-winning teams need to have mostly non-domestic players? Brazil in 2002 had mostly European-based players, you mentioned that France in 98 had most of their squad in Europe but NOT in France (or at least a significant proportion)--perhaps it's the outside experience that helps bring success for these teams?
I don't disagree with this but on Quaranta, he basically got hurt, which is why Arena didn' bring him in again. He played his first minutes in forever on Sat.
You are right. MLS rosters are so thin that there is little pressure on the starters to maintain as high a level of play as possible. There are two solutions. First, greatly increase the SI and TI spots and bring in more cheap but skilled foreigners. This will work, but will not improve the skill base of the American player. You may or may not agree with the importance of the last statement, but it is a given for the purposes of this thread. Or second, patiently support MLS and professional soccer in this country as the player pool increases. So you need to continue attending games, buying jerseys, buying directKick, and doing whatever you can to improve the income of MLS teams. Then they will have the money to increase salaries or set up training programs or whatever is needed to have deeper rosters.
I've always thought club level soccer was better than national team soccer. To tell the truth we have seen the mix of European based players and MLS players & it hasn't really worked at least not at this World Cup. The MLS is considered anywhere between a 2nd -4th division level in Europe. This is not saying the 2nd -4th are bad levels , they just are in no way anything near EPL/Serie A/Liga/Bundesliga. Brazil had most of their players in Italy and Spain. Up until recently they never really played in England or GMY , although that has changed in the last 5-10 years. Brazil has a Adrano, Cafu,Roberto Carlos, Ronaldo & Ronaldihno in their squad. If you put those guys on an MLS side or in the USMNT, you will definitely see results happen. America however just doesn't have or develop players this caliber. I mean their skill level is incredible and I do believe they have toned those skills by heading over to Europe. Remember Brazil was without a WC final for 5 straight World Cups. This is when they started exporting a lot of players to Europe. Brazilians however, have the luxury of being signed on with top club's, Americans do not. Very often we have seen certain types of players, not to mention American born players get better when they are playing with or against top class first division players , then they have a tough time playing with lower division players. You see Kirovski for example has always played on top level clubs (whether he started or not) then he comes to the MLS and not to not set any records and was even traded. Either he is not used to the training methods or the European soccer or whatever. I think there are some players who actually lose a step when they hit the MLS. Dooley, Stewart and Bartlet have stated that they learned nothing in the MLS. Dooley was at the end of his career so I don't think he cared much. Stewart went back to Holland to finish up and didn't finish his career at DC United and I think Bartlet had some better success while he went abroad.