Ah but what competition does Eto'o have for playing time? He does not have Morientes, Raul and Ronaldo. Henrik Larsson is still a fine player but in his 30's past his prime and in his first season in Spain. I bet if you compare the number of minutes played to the number of goals, then by the end of the season Owen will have a better ratio. It's also important to bear in mind this is Owen's first season in La Liga and outside of Liverpool. There's a much bigger difference moving country and to a different style of football than there is moving from a small club to a big club in the same league. Owen as a top player is already shrugging this off, but drawing conclusions negatively in the first few months as to how things will end up is highly premature, things will only get easier for Owen as he picks up the languange and the nuances of the league.
How convenient. 1. So is it (a) or (b)? They are contraditary you know. Either I would not post or I would post more often... what's that supposed to mean? 2. Actually it's founder and no.2 of a completely indigenous company that in less than 3 years has a turnover of 7 million US$. Go to the website if you need information about me or the company instead of making ignorant assumptions. What a load of bigoted ****************. If I am able to see as much Premiership as you do, as much Spanish football as you do, and possibly more Italian, Portugese and German football, WCQualifiers in South America, 7 CL games, I don't see why llocation matters. Again, if you look me up on the web, you will see that I used to work with Ericsson in Stockholm as a marketing manager, a job that took me all over Europe. I can safely say I see more football here than I did there. You will also see that I have been to the Bernabeau to see madrid play more than once including El Derby 2001-02. Am happy to post pictures of the same. But I guess the poor Indian boy's opinion counts for ******** compared to the presumptous bigoted Tottenham supporting expert?
Rated yes, but it doesn't mean it's going to be a success, otherwise he would be at Real Madrid by now for sure. We didn't really want him here, that's a fact. And you can always think of higher or similar rated players like Hernán Crespo, Mendieta, Gerard, Farinós, Jose Mari, Overmars, Verón, Saviola, Anelka or Baljic whose high prices and shine of the moment didn't turn to be a good investment. I think that, even when he is a player that will not really success in Real Madrid and I personally don't like very much, Owen was a better choice for the same price, a safer bet and a more solid curriculum with the attraction of being a Ballon d'Or and it's meaning in terms of Asian super-contracts. With regard to the original question, I think that we all would prefer a Real Madrid with eleven Spanish players, but the truth is that this is what it is, Spanish players now a days are not specially brilliant and are very expensive. We already have some of the best ones, meaning Raúl, Morientes, Salgado, Casillas, Helguera or even Guti, who is playing very well lately. Joaquín is too expensive and I'm not sure he would yield results according to his price. Same about Xabi Alonso, Reyes or Torres. They are obviously very good players, but I still prefer better ones in our team. Puyol is the one we could certainly trust, but he would never come unless catastrophe in Barcelona and Xavi is only valuable this year, he didn't play so well before and still belongs to Barça, meaning forget it. I like Florentino's policy of bringing international and media stars, as at least that ensures lots of money from Asian tours and marketing-merchandising, rather that going back to the old mediocrity days even when most players were national. I'm sure though that it's Florentino's wish as well to have as many Spanish players as possible, but whenever it's a good operation. He never rushes anything. He's made mistakes and risked high, but he is a clever man.
As I said before if Owen and Woodgate were signed to improve the sales of Real Madrid shirts then the marketing director should be fired, it's as simple as that. As it stands Sky is the only broadcaster in the UK that covers La Liga. However even with Sky Sports News Real Madrid items are behind everything Premiership, CC Championship, rugby, cricket.... etc. You know how I found out that Owen scored his last two goals? I had to check this forum because that kind of news is not carried on teletext and is not a major point on Sky Sports News. The increase in interest in Real Madrid in England will be no more than the increase of interest in Liverpool in Spain. If Owen and Woodgate were baught for marketing reasons then so were Garcia and Josemi, it's a ridiculous notion. Beckham is the only English footballer who is a superstar. Asian markets aren't interested in English footballers in general, only David Beckham.
as someone who actually lives in asia, i'd have to disagree with that last statement. for some reason, the publicity campaigns for both the epl and the national team seem to be in overdrive, asia in general, and southeast asia specifically. how bad is it? prematch analysis, media coverage, constant advertising, competitions, live football shows, interviews(via satellite of course), match of the week, ManUTV & ChelseaTV highlights, fa "classic" matches, etc etc. you'd think the epl was the best thing in football since they got rid of those scandalously short shorts, . it's even got to the extent that espn has a tv spot where it claims it's the "home of the england national team", complete with an idiot in a england jersey shouting at the telly like he was born in ol' blighty. and its not just beckham, you can see all kinds of features on epl players and of course, the national side members. the whole thing is sickening, for me, at least. and people wonder why i watch la liga instead, who's the latest craze of the media men and sheep-like "target consumers" ? why, rooney of course!
I'm not arguing that Woodgate is not a superb defender. But Newcastle and Leeds are and were big clubs and big spenders who were expected to do reasonably well in the competitions. You can't say that Woodgate carried them through or was the most influential. He did a solid job, but you can't say that these few achievements and his reputation in England make him a far better defender than some of the other defenders who have also achieved things in tournaments. No, he still must prove himself. All Madrid fans will support him, but i just think you're getting carried away with your national pride here. Nobody's dismissed him at all. Nor has anyone said he was bought solely for marketing purposes. The only topics here revolve around your outlandish claims regarding English players.
Apa khabar my fellow Malaysian! We're in the same boat man. And sorry Prenn, but you're way off the mark with your comments that Beckham is the only thing the Asian market is interested in. You have no idea how much Asians are into English football - which includes the league AND national team as well.
To illustrate our point, among the not-so-marquee matches being shown live in India this weekend are Southampton Vs Portsmouth and Charlton vs Norwich from the Premiership, Depor vs Levante from the 1st Division (only lowly because of Depor's current form), Southend United vs Luton Town (FA Cup), Thurrock Vs Oldham Athletic (FA Cup). Besides live games featuring Madrid, Barca, Bayern Munich, Liverpool, Chelsea, Man U, Arsenal. I think it's: 1) Enough football to show that a serious football fan in Asia has more than enough opportunity to watch quality football and offer an informed opinion. 2) People in other parts of the world don't seem to understand that English football (and players) are increasingly becoming a huge mainstream phenomenon in Asia. If it was all about Beckham and Man U, no one would be broadcasting Thurrock vs Oldham or Southend vs Luton Town live, leave alone Charlton vs Norwich.
In Hong Kong, we actually have a specific channel for the English Premier League, but we also got other games on other channels. The English games had been popular in SE Asia and Hong Kong for the longest time. beckham ey did convert some new fans, but he also did the same in orher parts of the world. I think Japan and China might be into the English game because of beckham. I visited both countries very often and did not see the English games too popular until WC 2002. Beckham has something to do with it.
not that its related to what i was talking about earlier, but incidentally the fact that newcastle had woodgate and bowyer as well the last time they were here is the main reason i didnt go to see them play. that, and theyre only an epl team anyway, (yes yes, that WAS a joke) well well, orang malaysia jugak, ye? with a name like that, i thought you were some snobby aussie, . oh and now i think of it, there was this one thing i saw which was disturbing. in a new commercial for one of the cable networks, there was a tagline which went "watch the three lions of madrid". for some reason that made me feel uncomfortable and worried, right, enough diversion from what this thread is really supposed to be about, and no more discussion on the marketing strength of the epl, a league i would be perfectly content not to see on tv quite as much.
No you misunderstand, I agree the Premiership is huge over there (as it is all round the world) but the players themselves aren't stars. English clubs aren't flowing in riches from massive sales in Asia so why would it be that signing Woody and Owen would increase RM's marketability over there. These players would have no affect on Real Madrid's already considerable popularity over there.
I'd like to apologise if anyone was offended by my tirade against sendorange yesterday and wanted to explain what it was that lit a fuse in my head. It's just deeply offensive when you've tried to have a football discussion but someone comes back with ignorant personal insults, based on zero fact, that is pulled out in the absence of any fact-based arguments. A remark like "I have seen your type before, no doubt some glorified office boy at an outsourced multinational subsidiary" certainly falls in that category.It's insulting, it's incorrect and it is based on stereotypes. It is also offensive when someone makes an argument based on nationality or ethnicity instead of fact. "I'm sorry that wounds you so deeply being such a loyal fan of the club from India"- SendOrange I am sure you have seen more of Owen and Woodgate than me, although I have seen both, especially Owen enough over the years. Conversely I feel fairly certain that I have followed Milito and Eto'o more closely than you, even if you have seen them play a few times. I honestly don't see why you feel that because I live in India and you live in the UK (or wherever), your opinion (and make no mistake, it's opinion alone here) should necessarily carry more credibility than mine. Considering how much football we get to see, what makes you feel that you have a more informed opinion on players like Milito or Eto'o than me? Or is it some sort of post-colonial superiority complex hangover? More troublingly, that statement implies that because of one's nationality of geography, a person has no right to feel strongly or have a opinion on things outside of their own countries, and if they do they deserve to be ridiculed because of the country they are from. At a superficial level, all of the things I like outside India have no credibility. So whether it Kevin Smith and tarantino and Almadovar movies or Radiohead, The Cure, U2 and Pearl Jam music I'm no longer allowed to feel "deeply" or be a "loyal fan" because I live in a different country? I'm sorry... guess I should have stuck to cricket and Bollywood. That would have been easier to pigeonhole into a "type". But that's at just a superficial level. At a more serious level, I suppose that most of the rest of the world had no right to an opinion on anything that doesn't concern their countries. It implies that just because most of France and Germany disagreed with Bush, there opinion doesn't count for anything because they don't come from the same country as Bush. They have no right to "be wounded deeply" or to be "loyal" in their opposition to a war that their countries are not involved in. I know that you did not say that. And I know that war and football are very different. But substitute war with any issue whether Britney or Rwanda or Enron and the same principle holds true. You feel that one is not allowed to feel strongly about issues, organisations, people etc. outside one's home country. I think that is an attitude that is at odds with the reality around us today. the reality of a world that is shrinking, where boundaries are blurring whether geographic or cultural, where information is available at people's fingertips, where everyone is interconnected and interdependent at some level. In the 21st century information is everywhere, and people ain most places are able to have an opinion on most things. It's not really that strange if a guy in India (who fell in love with the magic and the heartbreak of football in 1986, staying up late at night watching Brazil-Poland and Brazil-France) feels passionately about Real Madrid. It's not that strange if after 13 years of supporting the team, celebrating the last days of Quinta del Buetre, having been through the frustration of losing the title on the last day 2 years in a row against Tenerife, having celebrated the Renaissance that came with raul, having fulfilled a childhood dream of watching a match at a stadium that was home to the heroes of my footballing youth, I feel a sense of loyalty to the club. What do you know... it's the 21st century... even a guy in a place like India can fall in love with a team, and follow their games every single week for years at a stretch.... and not have it be something strange, something to be mocked at. Anyway, I am travelling the next 4 days so see the rest of you on Tuesday. All the best for Albacete. And SendOrange, THIS is a "highly opinionated piece" and if you don't like it, I don't give a rat's ass.
Yes, Woodgate has little appeal in Far East. I do not think people really knows who he is. He probably got negative points for his incident with the Asian students. Owen, on the other hand, is very big. I just returned from Japan. He got a new ad on TV. Having said that, Beckham has increased RM's profile in Asia. Owen's impact was not that important. It does not need the two of them to make them popular in Asia. As for English clubs' interests in Asia, I think thery are getting TV revenues for sure. Manchester Utd also opened soccer schools this year in Malaysia, Hong Kong, and Singapore(?). I knew as a fact that Newcastle Utd has an office in Hong Kong an china. Liverpool ran training camps in Asia every year for aspiring and paying kids. If money was not there, why would they bother? Siigning Beckham was perhaps one of the greatest move by Perez. Real Madrid instantly became one of the most popular clubs in Asia. before him, I was basically one of the few fans I knew in HK. Now, I saw RM fans everywhere. It actually helped other clubs too. I knew a few barcelona fans because of Beckham. They got attrached to La Liga because of him and ended up becoming Barcelona fans.
In addition to what Excape Goat said, i'd also like to point out that Real Madrid does not already have considerable popularity, and this would become fairly apparent if you came to Asia. Spanish football is still quite unpopular.. in fact Italian clubs are way more popular than Spanish clubs. The market is still huge, and Perez's purchases of Beckham and Owen really helps Madrid gain a following among Asians. Owen was practically the face of Liverpool, easily the second most supported club after Manchester Utd. Excape Goat, we also have an official Man Utd cafe and shop in Kuala Lumpur. Not that i'd ever be caught dead anywhere near it though.
I did not know about the MU cafe and store in KL. You also made a good point. Liverpool, not Arsenal or Chelsea, is probably the second most popular club in SE Asia and Hong Kong. They got their fans through the legacy of Liverpool teams in the 1970's and 1980's. The popularity of English football in Asia was way before David Beckham. The timing of the English games were better than La liga in marketing to the Asian market. The best English games are played between 8 pm and midnight on a Saturday evening in SE Asia. That is primetime TV in Asia. The La Liga matches are played around 2am or later in Asia. Most people are either sleeping or clubbing. Some Serie A were played around the same time.
There would be a mass of people regardless of whatever European club visited Asia. People would go to see them just so they can experience watching football that they would not normally get from their local leagues. Don't make the mistake of assuming that everyone who goes to watch Madrid in Asia is automatically a Madrid fan. I'll say it again, Madrid is still nowhere near as popular a club to support. And as Excape Goat said, it's partly due to the awful times La Liga is shown, but mostly due to the fact that English football already has a huge following, and remains the most televised and most advertised league in Asia. Madrid gained considerable popularity with the signings of Owen and Beckham, but it will take many many years before the number of Liverpool or Man Utd or Arsenal fans become comparable to Real Madrid fans.
Real madrid is liked the Beatles. they came to see Zidane, Ronaldo, Raul, Figo, Roberto Carlos and of course Beckham. The team is least important for the soccer fans in Asian who followed the players in World Cups and in Man Utd. The team can be Valencia, PSG, Dundee Utd, Shanghai Shenhua, Chicago Fire or anybody.
thats pretty true, actually. thats why you see people showing up for most friendly matches in asia. its not something you get to see everyday, especially since most football fans wont get the chance to go to europe and see the teams play. thats how even teams like birmingham can have people show up to watch them play, although naturally not on the same scale as a milan, manchester or madrid. but the beckham factor is huge, he is on another level altogether. like someone else said, i used to be the only madrid fan i knew, but now you can see the 23 shirts everywhere. its not really comforting, when you realise most of these people cant name madrids stadium, or tell you who puskas is.
In yesterday's game against Albacete, I saw Guti & Beckham talking. Does Guti speak English? Or has Beckham's Spanish gotten better?
It's funny that everybody says that Owen and Woodgate weren't for commericial purposes. Actually no one has noticed that for a year Real Madrid has been trying to make a deal with BP- of course the B standing for British. Why would a British company want to make a record deal with a Spanish club if they only have one Brit? Well they'l more than consider the deal now with three Brits. Foreigners are fine in Madrid, but there are too many, and they are hurting our National team players such as Raul, Morientes, and Guti. As you can see they aren't perfoming like they did in 2001-2002. Hey that summer Ronaldo came to Madrid. Coincidence that Raul hasn't played his striker role as much as a midfield role, and that Morientes doesn't play, I think not. So yes, there are too many foreigners.