Not a true Christian: Debate Christianity and Religion's role in Politics

Well, he didn’t go to school there. I know that Butker is extremely Trad Cath, as in he goes to a church with the Latin Mass. Do Benedictines still use that?

The school is in Kansas, and he plays for Kansas City, so in that sense he’s a local guy who is famous and Catholic.

 

No.

 

As someone who was raised Catholic, don't mess with nuns. Seriously.

 

You have two choices for being a Christian in Politics:

Option A: James Earl (Jimmy) Carter, Jr.

Option B: The modern GOP as eptomized by:

Donald Trump & Family
Ted Cruz / Marco Rubio / Rick Scott
Marjorie Taylor Green / Laurne Boebert
Any # of the clowns wearing AR-15 pins
Ron DeSantis / Kevin Stitt / Kay Ivey / Tate Reaves
Filter that down to your locals & the Moms for Liberty​

 

Dr. Wankler adds context: https://bcstudentnews.com/2021/10/11/latin-mass-at-abbey-offers-insight-into-church-heritage/

the monks at this particular college do offer one Latin mass each weekend for the students who want it.

 

Latin Mass hasn't been a thing in my lifetime.

The funny thing about the TradCath movement Dave mentions is my great-grandmother, who was a proud Catholic would've thought them weirdos. Same with the rest of my family. If anything, most Catholics are either Biden or are Catholics like the Sopranos; cultural and only go to mass for certain occasions.

 

it’s an interesting comparison actually. Trying to sum it up as succinctly as possible and sticking only to the modern day boundaries of India: 95% of the population speaks one of 14 languages as native speaker. They have 14 different scripts. These languages belong to one of two families and there is less similarity between the two families than the northern family has with Icelandic. Very little mutual intelligibility, although Urdu and Hindi are kinda like Moldovan vs Romanian or Croatian vs Serbian. Different alphabets but almost perfectly mutually intelligible. 1 Abrahamic religion and 4 Eastern religions. The biggest one has no hierarchical leadership stricture of any kind. With the exception of some of the northeast, everyone is a mixture of three different genetic sources (Persian, Indus area and indigenous Dravidian).

There is a ridiculous degree of diversity in Hinduism. Shit time if gods who are really just aspects of the same god and it has no truly authoritative text.

Caste is the system that organically grew to create cohesion. 3,000 or so “clans” that promoted labor supply/labor division and basically reduced transaction costs via risk mitigation in trade. Like crime families. Your patents, aunts, uncles and grandparents keep you in line to ensure business dealings and reputation within the caste. And if you screw over another caste, it will be dealt with swiftly to remedy the situation by either your family (hopefully) or the caste. Excommunication, financial compensation, “disappearing”, etc. it was a way to make order out of something that makes the Balkans seem simple.

And while Muslims elsewhere don’t have caste, in India they did/informally still do. There isn’t a cohesive sense of Hindu theology or Hindu values. Which is why Modi has opposition in three very different parts of the country. It is also why he panders to groups like the Bohras (very wealthy Muslim sect). overarching traditional values (reputation and others opinion of you, your family and your caste) is the traditional force that transcends religion. And that might be because Hinduism is so decentralized and fragmented or maybe Hinduism never became more centralized because of caste and the ethnic/cultural heterogeneity.

And that really is as succinctly as I can put it.

 

This chart seems relevant to the discussion in the last couple pages.

 

Patronizing much? I don't mean you- just the map's stated measurements. "Survival v. Self-Expression Values"? "Muslim countries in italics"? Kinda judgy-wudgy.... Is there a description of how they arrived at these kinda blatantly Westcentric descriptions?

 

Ireland isn't on the map for some reason, while Northern Ireland is separate from "Britain".

 

That whole thing is a mess. Anyone can post a chart. I'm going to assume they are illegitimate and not waste my time looking up who put that chart together.

 

There’s a link in the image

 

It was developed two academics associated with a highly regarded consortium of political scientists. The primary criticism is the presentation and labeling of their work, which can suggest a Western bias. I prefer to think of the axes less as value judgements but rather as differences.

In terms of what goes into the analysis, most academic theories of cultural difference have identified the same 5-7 qualitative factors. Things like power differences, indulgence, individualism vs collectivism, etc. Political science scores qualitative factors for data analysis. It’s what social scientists often do. This is no different. They’ve used principal components analysis to reduce those to two essentially hybrid variable axes. They’ve done wave after wave of global surveys, they publish the data and they make it downloadable in a variety of statistical package and spreadsheet formats so that others can poke holes, duplicate, scrutinize, critique. In other words, this is about clinical as one can get. You can’t perfectly reduce entire countries containing millions of people each into two variables, but in their estimation, these two PCA derived axes capture about 70% of it.

WVS is a global comsortium of political scientists. They designs differentiated surveys across 100+ counties, and receive 400k responses covering over a few hundred variables and their data has been the source of 30,000 academic publications.

https://www.worldvaluessurvey.org/WVSContents.jsp



Inglehart was a UMich political scientist. I wouldn’t call him just anybody.

https://isr.umich.edu/news-events/n...ld-values-survey-ronald-inglehart-dies-at-86/

If people don’t like it, that’s fine. But it’s probably as vetted, reviewed and studiously developed as anything posted here.


Culture is informed by economics, religion, adjacency and relations to other cultures, globalization, etc. it makes sense that if one were to plot these things, it would be somewhat apparent.

 

Yeah. Just posted some info. I mean it’s actually pretty accepted and reviewed stuff. It’s a more academic and robust version of Hodstede.

 

That’s the spirit!

 

Thanks for the addition

 

Life is too short. I do thank Chicago76 for digging so I don't have to.

 

TBF, he probably should have started with the digging, but this is BS, and I appreciate the effort required to drag the conversation out.

 

And there are specific places in Germany that would - full of vitriol - not consider themselves part of Protestant Europe.

 

Yeah, I get that, but it still doesn't explain why Ireland (the Republic) was left out. And if Northern Ireland is split from "Britain", which is not a country but a region in France (you'll note they didn't call it "Great Britain", which is an island, but just "Britain", which is the anglicized form of Brittany), then why not split out England, Scotland and Wales as well? After all, it's the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland!

 

there’s a Great above the Britain there mate. As for why NI and no I…it’s safe to say funding. Certain countries are members of a European affiliate of this organization and they’re all in. Ireland isn’t one of them. U Southampton sponsors UK of GB and NI and I imagine they saw a statistical difference between NI and other UK respondents and funded NI specifically. Some at-large funding goes into this but Ireland is probably well down the priority list there. N Macedonia and Latvia are the two Euros that appear to have been picked up by at large funding, and both are probably much more interesting and useful to study longitudinally given their economic transitions and newish political status.

there is a very long list of countries outside of Europe that don’t get direct funding that are far better research subjects as well.

 

Tweet apologies but it is funny as a lapsed Catholic to see the converts lose it when Pope Francis says something they disagree with. Even better is that Catholics were heavily involved with the New Deal and Dems for ages. And I know from experience my grandmother, who was devout would find the converts weird.

One particular convert I always found amusing was Liz Bruenig. For a variety of reasons.

1792993906474229899 is not a valid tweet id

 

It's called Roman Catholic for a reason.

And I loved 7am Latin mass. 45 minutes tops and no singing.