YNT-Eligible MLS Players: 2018 In-Season Thread

Even if there's an option for Atlanta, if he wants to leave, I can't see them forcing him to stay. It would bode extremely poorly for their ability to keep their academy players from signing in Europe right away. They already are behind in that department because of their usage of them, so angering them can't make it better.

 

At this point, I think it’ll be good if ATL focuses on just leaving Carleton with ATL 2. Let him get 90 minutes there consistently, hopefully he’ll perform well, then create a bit of demand for Euro transfer interest. Fee wouldn’t be large based on USL sample size, but why should Atlanta care how large/small a fee is for a player they never play?

Totally within Atlanta’s rights to load up on expensive foreigners, ain’t nothing wrong with that, but they shouldn’t hold promising prospects hostage if they’re not going to give them tangible opportunities.

 

I don't think Barco is taking time from Carleton. They are completely different players.
Barco will take time from Villalba, although from watching the game Villalba is a better player.
Barco looks like poor people Pulisic. If Americsn kid had 20 mins like that everyone would be telling that he isn't ready. Carleton is just stuck behind Almiron who is one of the league top players and Atlanta's franchise player, so as long as Almiron is there Carleton will see 30 mins per month. Would be smart of MLS to try to organize the trade like they did with Adu (sitting behind Chris Gomez - the league MVP), but might be too late.

 

Carleton is an ACM/SS IMO.

Barco had some real success as an ACM/10 for Independiente. His best game the 2nd part of last season came lining up as the 10 in a 4-2-3-1.

He won't play the 10 while Almiron is there but likely will when Almiron is sold. Of course, when that happens ATL is going to spend big on another ACM.

 

Carleton looked better in his limited minutes than Barco did, but I kinda agree with this. I think Tata sees Carleton as behind Almiron, but the bad part is that it seems he’ll play Kevin effing Kratz over Carleton as well in that position..

The problem with Barco is that he takes up another attacking position in the 18. Carleton is battling with Vasquez for that last bench spot so that’s going to be tough all season.

In hindsight, I wish Atlanta never bought Vasquez. Low-ceiling player that is now taking time from one of our best prospects.

Barco didn’t look great today, but that might just be some rust.

 

Barco got more playing time today than Carleton did in 4 games. Barco, quite literally, has barely practiced with ATL, ever, given his injury in preseason. But hey, all players “EARN” playing time, right?

 

Yup. It’s not “competing” when the winner is predetermined.

 

I think its a mistake to think there is some competition here. We know Carleton is better than Vazquez, we know he's better than Kratz, Williams, Gressel, etc. I don't think Martino believes those players are better than Carleton either, he watches Carleton in practice vs. these players. These are not great players, they aren't even good MLS players, except maybe Gressel (and even thats questionable).

I think this is a case of Martino not wanting to let Carleton expose his foreign stars, and cause a controversy where he's forced to sit one of them for Carleton. He doesn't "need" to play Carleton to win, MLS is mediocre enough that there other attackers can dominate defenses in MLS. Easy way to make sure there's no controversy is to barely let Carleton enter the field, not let the fans get their expectations up, and act like he needs to do more developing before he gets playing time. The Atlanta fans actually seem to buy all of it, and aren't asking any questions yet.

 

You're overthinking this.

Tata doesn't care about that. Atlanta is going to keep with the 3 at the back formation they've been going with, which means there are only gonna be at most three attacking spots anyways. Villalba's gonna sit.

Why doesn't he play Carleton? I don't know, really, but it's not that. My guess is that it's got to do with him not wanting to give Carleton the freedom his game needs, along with Carleton not being quick enough to play the counter-attacking soccer that Atlanta thrives on.

 

Asad was a starter all season last year, he's no faster than Carleton. Carleton's game is pretty adaptable, IMO. He can score, assist, either wing, centrally, create attacking chances, defend, hold possession. Because he's a creative #10 who plays with flair, he gets a bad defensive reputation IMO. Very often he puts in good defensive shifts, he's a willing defender, and picks up fouls all the time. Also, Villalba plays very little defense and he hasn't lost his spot for over a season now.

 

MLS US YNT-eligible (or soon to be) stats for the week and season.

Tyler Adams (99), M, NYRB – 90
Reggie Cannon (98), D, Dallas - 90
Justen Glad (97), D, Salt Lake – 90
Brooks Lennon (97), D, Salt Lake – 90
Matthew Real (99), D, Philadelphia – 90
Auston Trusty (98), D, Philadelphia – 90
Jackson Yueill (97), M, San Jose – 90, 1 assist
Handwalla Bwana (99 – citizenship pending), M, Seattle – 68
Chris Durkin (99), M, DC - 45
Mark McKenzie (99), D, Philadelphia – 38
Sebastian Sauncedo (97), M, Salt Lake – 13
Marco Farfan (98), D, Portland - 1

Justen Glad (97), D, RSL – 6 games/6 starts, 540 minutes, 0 goals/0 assists
Auston Trusty (98), D, PHI – 5/5, 450, 0/0
Reggie Cannon (98), D, DAL – 5/5, 422, 0/0
Brooks Lennon (97), D/M, RSL – 5/4, 393, 0/1
Kyle Duncan (97), D, NYRB – 4/4, 360, 0/1
Chris Durkin (00), M, DCU – 6/2, 272, 0/0
Marco Farfan (98), D, POR – 6/3, 266, 0/0
Matthew Real (99), D, PHI – 3/3, 239, 0/0
Handwalla Bwana (99 – citizenship pending), M, SEA – 4/2, 232, 0/0
Tyler Adams (99), M, NYRB – 3/2, 206, 0/0
Cam Lindley (97), M, ORL – 3/3, 201, 0/0
Jackson Yueill (97), M, SJ – 2/1, 107, 0/1
Sebastian Saucedo (97), M, RSL – 4/1, 99, 0/0
Ben Mines (00), M, NYRB – 1/1, 90, 1/0
Tommy Redding (97), D, NYRB – 1/1, 90, 0/0
Miles Robinson (97), D, Atlanta – 1/1, 90, 0/0
Anthony Fontana (99), M, PHI – 3/1, 86, 1/0
Mason Toye (98), F, MIN – 4/0, 54, 0/1
Mark McKenzie (99), D, PHI – 1/0, 38, 0/0
Paxton Pomykal (99), M, DAL – 1/0, 22, 0/0
Brandon Vasquez (98), F, ATL – 1/0, 17, 0/0
Andrew Carleton (00), M, ATL – 3/0, 14, 0/1
Dani Acosta (97), D, RSL – 1/0, 13, 0/0
Derrick Jones (97), M, PHI – 1/0, 5, 0/0

With McKenzie's debut, we're up to 24 players used.

 

Well, they did pay 15 million dollars for him. That's an all-time record for a transfer fee paid by an MLS team. It was always obvious that Barco was going to get significant playing time. You don't pay 15 million dollars for a squad rotation player in MLS. So yes, it was predetermined.

When I watch ATL I just kinda think they didn't need him. What they needed this past off-season was upgrades in defense and defensive midfield. They're still rolling out the creaking Michael Parkhurst and Jeff Larentowicz in the spine of their team.

I've always been more of a pessimist with regards to playing time for Andrew this year than others on this board. I went into the season expecting only 500 minutes for him across all competitions. He's only 17 right now, and ATL already has too many options in attack when Barco signed. He was always going to be the odd man out.

I also kinda wonder whether Andrew has already told the ATL brass that he wants to head to Europe when he's 18..........................

 

Atlanta plays the 21st and 28th. Atlanta United 2 plays the 21st, 24th, and 28th.

They need to come up with a plan for Carleton that isn’t - on the first team bench 4/21, resting in case the first team needs him on 4/24, and on the bench 4/28. Anything less than 180 minutes played in the next 2 weeks would be a failure.

 

That's normal though.

When teams pay for a major transfer, they give them time to get fitness and form back to their previous level.

Barco individually isn't the problem. He's a helluva talent. He's a helluva signing. Playing him yesterday isn't the problem. The problem is Carleton doesn't appear to fit ATL's plans. In Tata's 3-1-4-2 the most likely place for him to play is next to Nagbe at CM. Kratz has played there. Well guess who subbed on for Kratz?

Barco.

So Tata sees a Nagbe/Barco CM pairing going forward in all likelihood. Then they have Almiron in a free role under Josef.

Those are the two positions Carleton fits. And he's got a 10M and 15M signing locked into both ahead of him. For a coach who loves riding his stars 90 per game.

I might be wrong but the two most expensive foreign signings in league history? are sitting between Carleton and any real playing time. Hence why I say I generally love what ATL is doing, splashing 25M on two creative attackers, never mind Josef is great for the league. It's just unfortunate one of the top U18s to sign with the league is stuck behind them when he could and would be playing for any number of MLS teams.

At the same time, guess who subbed on for BVB yesterday in the derby. Jadon Sancho. He came on ahead of Mario Gotze. He got three consecutive starts for BVB in Jan as a 17 yr old. They gave 17 yr old Gomez his debut a week ago. In 2016 it was Pulisic at 17 getting regular time.

So I find this USL talk to be ridiculous. Andrew Carleton should not be hoping for time in the USL. He's not riding a Bund bench. This is MLS we're talking about. He should be getting regular mins in an ~20-25th ranked league globally.

Bigger picture here relays to the Pulisic situation. When he broke thru at BVB the MLS talking heads said hey, we'd have played him here. No you wouldn't have. He'd have be playing in the USL. So here comes Carleton, the league's chance to show what they'd do if an elite U17 attacker signs. On the heels of Josh Sargent saying I have to sign in Germany because that's the clearer path to playing time. After Pulisic calls out MLS for not playing his U17 homeboys.

And the convo has turned to hopefully he gets 90 in the USL.

Unbelievable.

 

Didn't Pulisic get playing time at the end of that season and not at the beginning. Carlton has a few months to go to get to that same point.

 

Sure, but when you look at the players he is currently behind, do you think he’ll get to that point?

 

Not really, but soccer is notorious for having many games for Carleton due to injury, call-ups, open cups, exhibitions.
We'll see.

 

A) None of Atlanta's players are going to the World Cup.
B) With Barco now here, given that Atlanta is probably going to stick with 3 in the back the rest of the season, there are now 4 players that Tata always starts competing for 3 spots. This will allow Tata to rotate (something he never does anyways) and still only use the 4 guys he likes.
C) I think Carleton has jumped Vazquez in Tata's mind, but that still might not guarantee a bench spot when Williams and Villalba will always be there.

Tata and Atlanta are starting to remind me a hell of a lot of how Chelsea have operated under Mourinho/Conte the past few years. Really good prospects in their academy, but they keep players from playing serious minutes to develop, and then saying "Look at all these players that we gave debuts!"

Those guys then miss key periods in their careers, and even if they play for their country one day you're always left wondering what would have happened if they were given actual time at this critical stage. Hudson-Odoi is the newest one (and a similar level of prospect to Carleton) in a long line of players like Loftus-Cheek, Chalobah, Solanke, Abraham, etc.

The only difference, of course, is that Chelsea would beat Atlanta 5-0. That's what happens when a league refuses to be a selling league, though. At least Carleton will hopefully have a chance to prove himself against full grown men in USL when English teams don't have that option.

 

He got playing time after winter break, when he was about 17 yrs 4 months old. Played in 12 matches with 4 starts down the stretch.

Now that I think of it, has Pulisic ever not made the 18 when fit since he broke into the 1st team in the winter/spring of 2016? I think there's only two matches he didn't appear when fit and those came early in the 2016-17 season.

Carleton is 17 yrs 10 months and just came off preseason. So somewhat comparable although he's half a yr older than Pulisic was coming off winter break.

Pulisic was about Carleton's current age during 2016-17 preseason. He then got his first UCL start while 17.

 

Yeah but they didn’t win. And that’s going to prove to be the problem with Tata. It’s fine if you’re playing at home in front of 70,000 fans against an LAFC team that travelled 2500 miles the night before and is coming off one of the most crushing defeats in MLS history, but when you play an actual good team, you can’t even beat them. Tata is that guy who fields a team that is near the top of the table in the regular season and then flames out in the playoffs because he doesn’t understand how to beat good teams. Atlanta was 2-3-3 against Toronto, Chicago, NYRB, and NYCFC last season.

This is all in addition to the fact that he will completely wear out his starting lineup by the time the playoffs start because he doesn’t know how to use a bench. The schedule is much more forgiving for them this season tho so maybe that won’t be an issue.

 

I agree, but I don't see how it'll matter towards Carleton. By the time they start questioning him, Carleton probably won't even be in the league. Maybe it'll help out the next few young players that sign with Atlanta.

 

My post was more me complaining again about Tata and trying to dispel any feelings people have that he is a good manager.

Perhaps it’s the pessimist in me, but I’m not really sure Carleton will leave when he turns 18. So far, this does look eerily similar to the EPB situation, but that doesn’t necessarily mean it is the same. It could just be that Tata is completely mismanaging one of our top prospects because, despite his resume and all of the acclaim he receives, he doesn’t really know what the hell hes doing.

Btw, since we are talking about kids going to Europe, does anyone know what ever happened to that huge news about an American going oversees that Ian Paul Joy couldn’t announce yet on Twitter?

 

I think he was referring to Gloster.

 

Ah. Would be nice if he would actually say that if he was. Also think he oversold it.

 

Carleton has 2 team option years left on his deal after this year.

Atlanta isn't going to just let him go for free. He might go overseas though at 18, but it will be because a team pays Atlanta a fee.