@leadleader http://www.fourfourtwo.com/news/xavi-plays-down-zidane-comparison Quotes on zidane Michel platini: "Technically I think he is the king of what is fundamental in the game -control and passing I don't think anyone can match him when it comes to controlling and receiving the ball." Franz Beckenbauer "Zidane is truly a magnificent player one of the greatest players in history" Carlos Alberto Parreira Brazil's coach in 2006 called zidane a monster after his performance against in the world cup Marcello lippi: "I think zidane is the greatest talent that we've seen in football over the last 20 years yet he never played the prima Donna" http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/world_cup_2006/teams/france/5147908.stm Pele "Zidane is the master over the past 10 years there has been no one like him he has been the best player in the world" Cesare Maldini "I would give up 5 players to have zidane in my squad" Zlatan ibrahimovic: "Zidane was from another planet . when zidane stepped on a pitch 10 other guy's just got better it's that simple" Phillipe auclair(journalist): "With the ball at his feet Zidane was a poet" Roberto Carlos "he was the best player I've seen supporters use to arrive 10 min early at the Bernabéu just to see him train" Ossie Ardiles "He was the best player since Maradona an amazing talent with great balance 2 great feet and a real winning mentality(comment made in 2006)" rudd gullit "he was the best player of the last generation.he would control games but more importantly he always performed on big occasions" Riquelme "people say I never smile when I play but I've never seen zidane laugh whether he's winning or losing and he's the greatest there's been for the last 10 years" Ronaldinho "zidane is one of the best players of all time one of my idols he had such elegance and grace a wonderful touch and superb vision" Gulliem balague (in 2007) "Pele,zidane,Maradona,di Stefano the 4 greatest ever" David Beckham "to train with zidane for three years was a dream for me he is the greatest of all time" Alfredo di Stefano "He dominates the ball he is a walking spectacle and he plays as if he had silk gloves on each foot.he makes it worthwhile going to the stadium he's one of the best I've ever seen" Fenomeno "For me playing with zidane was an honour..He is one of the greatest players I ever trained or played with my greatest memory of him was is a move that I played a part in vs Valladolid.he started out the area turning 2 defenders.i made a wall for him and played him through, he could of shot and probably scored but a defender came out and he(zidane) turned him with a roulette dribble . then the keeper came out and he rounded him and then fired the ball into the stand.it was the most beautiful goal that was never scored" Spectacular (Fenomeno was referring to this) https://arjyomitra94.wordpress.com/2015/06/02/quotes-on-zinedine-zidane/ http://dailypost.ng/2012/12/19/mess...on-zidane-made-players-look-good-ibrahimovic/ And you guys come along and say he was comparable to valderrama,iniesta,riquelme,etc.. It's a disgrace that this thread even exists
@carlito86 I dont think you read this statement correctly. Instead of jumping to conclusions, really think hard about what i wrote. 1st of all, I said that this match vs Romania by Payet was a great match even by Zidane's standards. Zidane has not had a group stage match that was this impactful. 2nd of all, I mentioned that if Payet could pull of the feat of actually being able to play at this level in 50% of the matches, then I would deem it better than any tournamnet of Zidane. Obviously that includes the KO stages
Although this piece of movement looked stunning to watch, it actually wasn't very effective. Zidane took an extra (unnecessary) touch, then made a roulette dribble past the defender, then had to round the keeper, and then shot it high. A more effective player and goalscorer like Messi would have buried that goal in one shot right after Ronaldo laid it off for him, instead of over-complicating the issue and missing in the end.
Not sure about the impactful part. Zidane vs England 2004 was pretty much the definition of impactful, and it was a group game. Hell, the English players were still traumatised by it, 8 years on. Maybe you meant - as an overall performance it was a great game, even by any great midfielder's standards, which is completely agreeable.
1st of all, i still think that pass by Zidane that he executed against Dynamo Kiev was top class stuff taking every into consideration. However, you are correct in saying that Zidane never really performed at a top level against a 1st rate team at Juventus, though, Ajax and dynamo are not shitty teams either. In addition, perhaps Zidane's role should really be examined because as we begin to notice. Zidane is not actually an out-and-out playmaker. he is not a player who will directly create tons of chances. Perhaps its better to rate him as a number 8 as opposed to a number 10. Having said that, Zidane did have good performances against Bayern Munich and Monaco in the home matches of the KO stages in the 03-04 season and he did score the winning goal against Bayern Munich and 2 goals against Monaco in a 4-2 win, with an assist (Monaco appearing in the champions league final).
Yeah, i meant overall performance. Remember, if it werent for those extra minutes passed the 90th minute, it would not be regarded as a good game by zidane. I remember watching that game. there are very few times that i have been so happy
I'd say injury time is specifically meant for such drama and for legends to make their claim to greatness . Also you wouldn't have had the chance to feel so happy if it were a foregone conclusion .
R9 seems to feel the exact opposite though, since he's on record for mentioning that specific play as the one piece of skill from Zidane that stood out for him. According to him, it was awesome. And while everyone's entitled to an opinion, I do tend to agree with him on this one, since it was a special move though ultimately fruitless. After all, there is nothing special in scoring off of a layoff, and its not like Zidane never did it in the mundane fashion himself. I do understand though that such differences of opinion are why some would gravitate towards a machine-like player that is Messi, while others would gravitate to the magique that was Zidane.
Considering Iniesta's performance against Czech Republic. if iniesta were to win this Euro 2016 and/or be player of the tournament after the season he just had at club level both without xavi, would this put an end to the debate of Xavi vs Iniesta???
Possibly out of xavi's shadow but never Messi he(iniesta)will be remembered as the support cast to the stand out player that was/is Messi. Regarding the xavi vs iniesta debate I've had this discussion many times over especially during 2010-2012 and one of my good pals who just happens to be Spanish said that back home(ie Spain)they consider iniesta to be the best for Spain(national team) and xavi the best for Barcelona. overall I would personally go with xavi every day of the week I just don't see any player from this generation having the ability to directly replace xavi and perform so consistently great as he did from 2009-2011
I prefer Iniesta over Xavi, since I think that while Iniesta can do what Xavi can (its a thing of mentality and discipline), Xavi can't do all that Iniesta can (its a thing of technique and natural ability). Regarding Messi's shadow, well it is a long one, but a standout tournament performance without either Xavi or Messi to take the plaudits, would certainly lead to a reassessment of Iniesta's game from the standpoint of many neutrals who considered him to just be a part of the support cast (albeit an important one), till this point in time.
Veratti Possibly??? however, i dont think veratti can match Xavi in workrate, though i do think he may be able to play on his level with the ball. in saying that, off the ball movement is critical to be on a similar level to xavi
Agree 100%. especially the way he Pirouettes out of pressure and pressing. I'll also add passing accuracy and decision making to work rate. Xavi's decision making and football IQ is the highest I've ever seen. His passing is also incredible. Always the right weight, and to the players preferred foot. He is the best passer I have ever seen.
The problem is that "magique" can be produced all over the midfield; but why waste a perfectly good chance just because you want to score a roulette-goal? It does come off as excessively self-indulgent, what Zidane did there, and what R9 seems to think about it. And for the record; I gravitate towards players like Riquelme/Iniesta, more than players like Messi -- but Zidane's play was just almost insultingly self-indulgent... There's a difference between magic and blatantly arrogant self-importance.
It is quite clear that @Estel doesn't know what he's talking about. The idea that what Xavi did is simply about "mentality and discipline" is utterly ludicrous. And, of course, so is the idea that other players could simply do what Xavi did if they tried. Iniesta is a great player, but he's a different player and he cannot do what Xavi did. People who watch Barcelona know this, because, over the years, Barcelona has tried to put Iniesta in the Xavi role sometimes, and he's not nearly as good at it. Of course, the same would be true of putting Xavi in the Iniesta role, so this isn't a criticism of Iniesta. Rather, the point is that these players have very unique skill sets that other players can't simply emulate. I bet @Estel also thinks that Zidane could play the Xavi role as well as Xavi did
Well, as I'm assuming Estel would say: it's just a matter of mentality and discipline, and not only would Zidane be better than Xavi at "The Xavi" role, but Zidane simply would never reduce himself to such an inferior art form. Estel isn't a fan of football, he's a fan of what he thinks is "high art." Also, Estel has a very black-or-white interpretation of pretty much everything football-related. You think Zidane's roulette in THAT situation was almost insultingly self-indulgent? Then you must gravitate towards a machine-like player that is Messi, and you also probably aren't intelligent enough to appreciate the finer things in life, etc. And of course, if you think it was amazing how Zidane completely wasted a very clear chance? Then you must gravitate towards the finer things in life, and Estel will let you know how much smarter you are for agreeing with him, etc. I mean, it's so insufferable, the way Estel responds to anything football-related, with basically one out of his 2 similar answers. He clearly isn't a football fan, and he clearly hasn't consistently followed football at any point over the past decade.
I think they are more or less equal, in that they belong on the same tier imo. That being said, as a player I prefer Pirlo, more than anything due to the two reasons below, (A) Because I think Pirlo is a significantly better duo-player. I think Pirlo+Henry is a lot better than Zidane+Henry; I think that Pirlo+Kaka was much better than Zidane+Kaka would've been had Zidane and Kaka ever played on the same team. Essentially, I tend to prefer dynamic-duos (Pirlo-Kaka or Xavi-Iniesta), over the one-man-show (Zidane), which is a big reason as to why I consider Pirlo a better player than Zidane. (B) Pirlo is a GOAT passer imo, and Zidane was nowhere near a GOAT passer imo. The only times that I prefer the one-man-show as opposed to the dynamic-duo, is when the one-man-show is built around a GOAT passer or around a passer that is great enough that you can at least begin to argue his case as an all-time great passer; Platini, Maradona, Riquelme, etc. Of course, because I think that Zidane is a rather average passer relative to legitimately great passers, that's something of a "deal breaker" for me when it comes to Zidane (a player that I'd rate higher than Pirlo on an all time list, but a player that I don't think is actually better than Pirlo). I should mention that Zidane is one of my favorite players when it comes to entertainment-value.
Iniesta simply cannot do what Xavi does. His football IQ is lower, his stamina is pretty poor in comparison and his passing is below Xavi's. Xavi is the best mf I have seen at escaping culdesacs and pressure consistently and his first touch is better than Iniestas. The only player that I could say I have watched that is perhaps arguably better at Xavi is Maradona who could shift play even when he was closed in. Xavi's decision making is better. When Xavi operated closer to goal his output was on a level that Iniesta has never reproduced in terms of passes, assisting. Xavi has better vision. Iniesta is a needle player of the highest level and is very good at escaping pressure and he is the second best dribbler when running at players after Messi despite how slow he is. Once he escapes pressure he is extremely dangerous. Shooting is another area where I would maybe give Iniesta the edge but dribbling is the only real edge Iniesta has over Xavi, which is a very big edge as he is very effective at it. No mf can reproduce what xavi did. Xavi is better at Iniesta at everything bar dribbling after turning. He wasn't bad at it but he didn't have the acceleration to get away from people. Xavi ran the most in every single game he played in for almost 5 years. Take a second to think about that. Iniesta would simply not be able to handle it and he cannot dictate games on that level. Xavi was also better at cutting off passing lanes. Together they were the perfect foil to each other because Iniesta deferred to Xavi in terms of dictating and was allowed to work between the lines. Iniesta is more capable of doing something unexpected and has more flair and is aesthetic to watch but Xavis role is perhaps the most specialised role in football history. Dribbling in football is perhaps one of the best measures of quality and individuality so I'm not surprised if people rate Iniesta being better based in just that as his fundementals are elite as well. Both great players but for very different reasons.
I'd disagree on the following attributes, since I don't see how one can categorically state Xavi was better than Iniesta on these considering that they are all subjective measures, - Football IQ - Vision - First Touch - Decision Making I'm undecided about the following being an advatange for Xavi over Iniesta, since I think it is are more about a perception created through a repetition of opinion voiced by certain factions, rather than any specific fact, - Dictating games I'd agree to the following being advantages for Xavi, - Statistical Output (Goals + Assists) - Fitness (Stamina including the ability to run a lot and do so for a large volume of games) Dribbling and shooting (somewhat) you give to Iniesta, and I agree there since I too think that only dribbling is a clear advantage among those two with shooting being a lot closer. The point is though, on similar basis as the above (with a few tweaks), a player like Lampard could come out in front of a player like Iniesta as well. I don't agree to that conclusion, so I don't think I can agree to the overall assessment you have shared above for Xavi vs Iniesta either.
Fair points. For me, football is subjective no matter which way you look at it. Stats are never the be all and end all and are used most of the time to confirm and affirm biases. The eye test for me is the most important. By vision, Xavi spotted player runs on a more consistent basis, his passes were also better weighted and he showed far better passing ranges than Iniesta ever exhibited. In terms of first touches, Iniesta's is exceptional, but a xavi was just more consistent with it on a regular basis. He is also better at escaping pressure. As I said, Iniesta is elite at the things I listed but Xavi is just a bit more consistent with his and coupled with his stamina and always being available for passes and always passing it with perfect weight makes him a better dictator of games as he gets himself into positions to receive the ball better and avoid being marked out. Iniesta can simply not reproduce that over the course of 50 games a season let alone 5 years. Xavi is clearly superior at final balls, for me there is no debate. The only players that are on his level in final ball delivery are Laudrup and Maradona as far as I've seen. You can throw in Messi but Xavi has far more variety than Messi in his delivery, Maradona had the highest variety and could deliver final balls from anywhere in almost any body position. Despite all this they are both incredible and perhaps Iniesta offers more individual quality as his dribbling is simply at an elite level and up there with the greatest. To top it off, Xavi is a better support player, Iniesta is a better individual player if that makes any sense as there is no other way I can differentiate them in such a team oriented game such as football.