WWC19 USA v THE NETHERLANDS, FINAL, pre/pbp/post

Discussion in 'USA Women: News and Analysis' started by McSkillz, Jul 3, 2019.

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Who will win WWC19' final?

Poll closed Jul 7, 2019.
  1. United States

    54 vote(s)
    87.1%
  2. The Netherlands

    8 vote(s)
    12.9%
  1. Dfwsoccer01

    Dfwsoccer01 Member

    Jun 23, 2014
    Plano, TX
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    No, I totally get it...

    I was just alluding to the fact that our offense didn’t look nearly as dominating as what was advertised (and yes, I saw some of the lead up matches to the WC, and thought it was misleading to say we were so dominant offensively).

    I just think in the situations our defense was put into (whether it be a lagging offense, the in game tactics we went to earlier than normal), they played really well and that can get lost to offensive players.
     
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  2. Dundalk24

    Dundalk24 Member

    Jul 20, 2007
    PA/OH
    Well I didn't really consider her too much. Just a forgettable cameo in a non critical situation. :p
     
  3. Dundalk24

    Dundalk24 Member

    Jul 20, 2007
    PA/OH
    I'm totally with you on that. But there is lots of credit to go around. I would have chosen Ertz as Golden Ball winner. But it has almost always been the case that defensive players and true mids often don't receive the wider recognition they deserve.
     
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  4. Midwest Ref

    Midwest Ref Member

    Jul 25, 2002
    Dollars for whom? The players and US Soccer. What has US Soccer done to convince you that it wholeheartedly supports the growth of women's soccer. It may bring in money for US Soccer and the players, but whether that money gets reinvested in the league is the question.
     
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  5. ifsteve

    ifsteve Member

    Manchester United
    United States
    Jul 7, 2013
    MS and ID
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And neither do I but what did this comment add or detract from my point. Have you seen the distribution of said 14 chances???
     
  6. RalleeMonkey

    RalleeMonkey Member+

    Aug 30, 2004
    here
    Underwriting the league?

    I'm guessing the Fed provides more support to the WNT than any fed does.

    The "Equal Pay" demands are based in no small part on revenue generated from the glory tours (which also promote the WNT - so they can generate more money in the future, allowing the players to demand more money). But, dude, if you want to complain about the glory tour - go ahead, it's a free country.

    But, I'm going to tell ya, creating a self-sustaining women's soccer league is going to be a hell of a challenge. Name me a self-sustaining women's sports team league anywhere in the world.

    The sad thing is, Julie Foudy & crew's decision not to enlist the aid of MLS ("we don't want the men riding on our coattails" jajajaja!) back in the day is going to be the thing that ultimately holds any women's soccer league in the U.S. back, compared to their Euro counterparts.

    Juventus, Barcelona, Olympique Lyonaisse, Chelsea, Man City, et al. are going to have a *ton* more resources to throw at women's soccer than, say, Seattle Reign and Orlando Pride.

    MLS is rolling in money. That decision by Foudy&Co was stuuuuupid.

    But, hey, sure. Cancel the glory tour. Cut wayyyyyyyyy down on the revenue generated by the WNT, and let them go to the bargaining table.
     
  7. Roger Allaway

    Roger Allaway Member+

    Apr 22, 2009
    Warminster, Pa.
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    MLS may be (or may not be, I'm not sure) rolling in money today. But back when Foudy & Co. made that decision, almost 20 years ago, MLS was hanging on by its fingernails. It nearly folded in 2000 or 2001.
     
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  8. Lloyd Heilbrunn

    Lloyd Heilbrunn Member+

    Feb 11, 2002
    Jupiter, Fl.
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Takes guts, and the willingness to sometimes abandon self-interest.

    Remember Michael Jordan's famous quote when asked why he was not giving an opinion on a political issue?

    "Republicans buy shoes too"
     
  9. Lloyd Heilbrunn

    Lloyd Heilbrunn Member+

    Feb 11, 2002
    Jupiter, Fl.
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #784 Lloyd Heilbrunn, Jul 9, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2019
    She was also pretty poor in the Chile game that she did play in. It's possible she might've earned more time if she had lit up Chile.
     
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  10. taosjohn

    taosjohn Member+

    Dec 23, 2004
    taos,nm
    Y'know though, I just looked it up--if you throw out all 13 goals against Thailand, we still were the highest scoring team in the tournament...England was second with 12.
     
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  11. RalleeMonkey

    RalleeMonkey Member+

    Aug 30, 2004
    here
    Still, they offered to help the women. W/o MLS, WUSA folded like a guy holding a 7 high card.

    You saying they did better without MLS's help, than they would have with it? In the immortal words of Danny Zucko "ha."

    And, now look at things. Ya, that was a stupid decision by Foudy&Co.
     
  12. RalleeMonkey

    RalleeMonkey Member+

    Aug 30, 2004
    here
    How many did we score w/o the Thailand match?
     
  13. Dfwsoccer01

    Dfwsoccer01 Member

    Jun 23, 2014
    Plano, TX
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    13...

    So the exact same number of total goals were scored in both 2015 and 2019 World Cups, averaging 2.81 per game.
     
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  14. taosjohn

    taosjohn Member+

    Dec 23, 2004
    taos,nm
    Only no one else scored more, even allowing them their weakest opponent and denying us ours-- which is also giving the Netherlands, England, and Sweden a whole extra game.

    And I think it was a much tougher field, both offensively and defensively. So there's a case to be made that we were at least highly successful offensively, although "juggernaut" seems a bit excessive maybe...
     
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  15. Slowpokeking

    Slowpokeking Member

    Jul 18, 2011
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    True, if we have a stronger male soccer league plus all the training facility, it's going to help the women all the way.
     
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  16. Avisday1

    Avisday1 Member

    Feb 2, 2005
    San Antonio,TX
    My best guess from cutting and pasting from ESPN's match timelines (and not going back to watch):

    Thailand (5)
    45' + 1' Attempt saved. Crystal Dunn (USA) left footed shot from the left side of the box is saved in the bottom left corner. Assisted by Megan Rapinoe
    45' + 2' Attempt saved. Rose Lavelle (USA) header from the centre of the box is saved in the centre of the goal. Assisted by Megan Rapinoe with a cross.
    50' Goal! USA 4, Thailand 0. Samantha Mewis (USA) left footed shot from the centre of the box to the top left corner. Assisted by Megan Rapinoe.
    67' Attempt saved. Alex Morgan (USA) left footed shot from the centre of the box is saved in the bottom left corner. Assisted by Megan Rapinoe.
    81' Goal! USA 10, Thailand 0. Alex Morgan (USA) left footed shot from the centre of the box to the top left corner. Assisted by Megan Rapinoe.

    Sweden (1)

    42' Attempt saved. Rose Lavelle (USA) left footed shot from outside the box is saved in the centre of the goal. Assisted by Megan Rapinoe.

    Spain (1)

    65' Attempt missed. Samantha Mewis (USA) right footed shot from outside the box misses to the right. Assisted by Megan Rapinoe.

    France (4)

    1' Attempt saved. Julie Ertz (USA) right footed shot from outside the box is saved in the bottom left corner. Assisted by Megan Rapinoe.
    13' Attempt saved. Alex Morgan (USA) left footed shot from the centre of the box is saved in the centre of the goal. Assisted by Megan Rapinoe.
    43' Attempt saved. Crystal Dunn (USA) right footed shot from outside the box is saved in the bottom left corner. Assisted by Megan Rapinoe.
    46' Attempt saved. Samantha Mewis (USA) left footed shot from outside the box is saved in the centre of the goal. Assisted by Megan Rapinoe.

    Netherlands (3)

    38' Attempt saved. Samantha Mewis (USA) header from the centre of the box is saved in the centre of the goal. Assisted by Megan Rapinoe with a cross.
    38' Attempt saved. Alex Morgan (USA) left footed shot from the centre of the box is saved in the bottom left corner. Assisted by Megan Rapinoe with a cross.
    76' Attempt saved. Crystal Dunn (USA) left footed shot from the centre of the box is saved in the bottom left corner. Assisted by Megan Rapinoe.

    What's funny is who got credit for the assist on Lindsey Horan's goal against Sweden. According to the FIFA match report it was Rapinoe and that was her 3rd assist. But US Soccer credits Mewis. Looking back at the highlight, it does look like Mewis got a touch to it off Rapinoe's corner and both JP and Aly refer to Mewis' flick.
     
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  17. Roger Allaway

    Roger Allaway Member+

    Apr 22, 2009
    Warminster, Pa.
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No, they haven't been doing better than they would have if they'd had more help from MLS post-2010 or so (they have gotten that help in a few places, like Portland, Houston and Orlando). But if they'd had help (financial help, that is) from MLS back in 2001, they still would have folded in 2003 the way you describe, and MLS would have folded also.

    I do think it was foolish of Foudy & Co. to believe that they could go it alone, but they needed more support than what the shaky MLS of that era could have provided.
     
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  18. RalleeMonkey

    RalleeMonkey Member+

    Aug 30, 2004
    here
    That's debatable. MLS could have added the women at very little cost. WUSA had to create its own infrastructure. And, their eyes were bigger than their wallets. For some reason, they decided to go *huge* on the expense side (I'm not talking salaries), that maybe people with better sports management acumen could have steered them away from.
     
  19. RalleeMonkey

    RalleeMonkey Member+

    Aug 30, 2004
    here
    Mewis absolutely deserves the assist there. None of those shots show it well, but she re-directed the ball with that right footed flick between her legs. She played a huge role in that goal.
     
  20. MiLLeNNiuM

    MiLLeNNiuM Member+

    Aug 28, 2016
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Especially against France, I think our defense was stellar, very disciplined.
     
  21. Slowpokeking

    Slowpokeking Member

    Jul 18, 2011
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Other than the game VS England, we were fine.
     
  22. FanOfFutbol

    FanOfFutbol Member+

    May 4, 2002
    Let's see, we beat England and only gave up a few good shooting chances. Against the #3 team in the world by any measure that ain't bad and better than "fine."

    I would say that this defense, overall, was about the best we have ever fielded even though our current goalkeeping is the worst (not actually bad but worse than either of the other two) we have ever played a World Cup with.

    In this case, more than any in the past, our defense won the cup.
     
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  23. Slowpokeking

    Slowpokeking Member

    Jul 18, 2011
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Yeah, it's pretty good.
     
  24. taosjohn

    taosjohn Member+

    Dec 23, 2004
    taos,nm
    2015. Conceded in only two games in that one. and held a team scoreless but did not win in another, won two games by 1-0...
     
  25. FanOfFutbol

    FanOfFutbol Member+

    May 4, 2002
    True. But the teams we faced were mostly MUCH better than the teams we faced this time. At least, to my eyes and by rankings, they appeared to be.

    Note: The aberration of Thailand I discount because Thailand faced the US 1st, the US gals were HUNGRY and the US had sat through several days just waiting to play their first match. That builds a lot of energy and that, against a weak team, means a lot of goals. I would have been very surprised if, as soon as Thailand tired, we did not score at least seven.

    Just because the score was low does not mean the defense was good and just because, this time, we scored early in most games does not mean our defense was not tested.

    The goal of the defense is to prevent goals make passes or other plays that enhance the offense and make sure that little happens that really requires super defense. They did that job well. There are three "Ds" of defense that make defense work.
    1. Delay - Make the attacking player slow down or make a pass that wastes time allowing recovery.
    2. Deny - Make the attacking player choose something else than what they really want to do thereby making others in the attack guess, rather than knowing, what the final ball might be.
    3. Destroy - This is self explanatory but it is usually unneeded as far as difficult or hard tackles are concerned. This is also what defenders REALLY want to do but if they skip the first two Ds the third is usually a foul or results in getting beaten.

    I took over a team once (U16 girls) where the defenders only wanted to tackle and for the first half of the season we lost every match and gave up an average of 4 goals. I held four straight practices where we worked hard on almost nothing but the first two Ds. I thought that the girls still did not get it. They did not really show, in practice, any tendency to abandon the "tackle first and ask questions later" attitude.

    However they suddenly started applying the three Ds in the first game after the 4th practice. We went into the half against a team that had beaten us 6-1 earlier in the season leading 2-0. As the girls were drinking water II heard a couple of girls talking and one said, "Wow, coach was right, it is easier to defend if we apply those three Ds."

    After the game, which we won 4-0, our goalkeeper laughingly complained that she had so little to do that she nearly fell asleep. At the next game the girls changed their huddle breaking chant to: (I allowed them to come up with whatever they wanted as long as it was clean and pretty short)

    delay, deny, destroy
    Delay, Deny, Destroy
    DELAY, DENY, DESTROY
    DELAY, DENY, DESTROY
    BREAK

    There were seven more games in that season and we won them all giving up only 4 goals total.

    The US defense, which started with the central midfield executed the three Ds about as well as it can be done against even the best teams in every match. There were very few times, that I saw, where it was necessary to jump too quickly to the third D.

    The problem with the three Ds is that, sometimes because you wait for a defensive mistake, you give up "time of possession" as we saw a number of times in this tournament. But possession that does not lead to chances is one of the most meaningless stats there is.

    BTW: I still think Ertz and Dunn were what made this team as good as it was even though Dunn really seems to want to skip the first two Ds a lot.
     
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