1. Semblance17

    Semblance17 Member+

    Apr 27, 2013
    Lighthouse Point, FL
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    My co-worker and I viewed it more as silver, and followed up by agreeing it should be gold instead, to reflect the color of the medal this team is shooting for.
     
  2. Ethan Frank

    Ethan Frank Member

    Chelsea
    United States
    Jun 11, 2019
    I just disagree from what I've seen. Now, if we're talking about the Netherlands in Sweden's situation, I would agree since Spain seems to be a bit of a bogey team for the Dutch. I don't think there's been any similar history between Spain and Sweden. Agree to disagree though.
     
  3. MiLLeNNiuM

    MiLLeNNiuM Member+

    Aug 28, 2016
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #153 MiLLeNNiuM, Jun 20, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2019
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  4. Ethan Frank

    Ethan Frank Member

    Chelsea
    United States
    Jun 11, 2019
    Considering that I think Canada can beat Sweden and I think Canada has looked better than Spain, I just think that's poor thinking. This match wasn't meaningless in my opinion. You can't look ahead to the quarters with the Round of 16 still ahead. It's not like France is blowing everyone apart either, but they may well play better from now on.
     
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  5. RalleeMonkey

    RalleeMonkey Member+

    Aug 30, 2004
    here
    I've only watched England's match against Japan - England looked like they have speed to burn, all across the midfield. If we encounter them, and play our slow line up: Tobin, Pinoe, Horan, Ertz, all on the field at the same time, it's going to be tough. Japan created advantages all over the field with their passing and couldn't capitalize. Everytime a Japanese player got a step on their English counter part, England ran them down. I don't think we're as slow of foot as Japan. But, with Tobin, Pinoe, Horan, and Ertz, we might be.
     
  6. Semblance17

    Semblance17 Member+

    Apr 27, 2013
    Lighthouse Point, FL
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The only explanation I can come up with is that they applied the logic that the last player to make any contact with the ball before it went into the net scored the goal, regardless of any other factor, which to me is stupidity. Heath initiated a shot on goal. The shot forced the defender to make a deflection block which redirected it over the keeper. All part of the plan. :D Regardless, it was the momentum and trajectory of Tobin's kick and that sent the ball into the net, even if the deflection may have put it out of the keeper's reach.

    To rule it an own goal was an insult to both teams. To me it was a 100% bona-fide legitimate second career World Cup goal for Heath, no questions asked, regardless of the official ruling. I may have a bias [see profile pic] but I don't think I'm applying it in this case.
     
  7. zdravstvuyte

    zdravstvuyte Member

    Aston Villa
    United States
    Jul 26, 2018
    I loled at the “too much power” comment.
    My player of the match was Sam Mewis.
     
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  8. Semblance17

    Semblance17 Member+

    Apr 27, 2013
    Lighthouse Point, FL
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Thank you!
     
  9. RalleeMonkey

    RalleeMonkey Member+

    Aug 30, 2004
    here
    I thought the announcers did not give Mewis nearly enough credit for Horan's goal.

    It's going to be interesting ..... our M.O. in this formation is for the back line to get the ball to our DM (usually Ertz, today: Horan). After Sweden figured out that Horan was Ertz today, the did what I've suggested in the past that other teams should do. Just keep a player in the passing lane to our DM.

    In this system, it is super hard for us to get the ball upfield w/o going through the DM. The AM's don't often drop back to receive it, and if they don't, they're too far upfield for the back line to consistently pass to them. The wings are too far upfield for the back line to reach. And, if they dropped back, they are too slow to carry the ball upfield on the dribble.

    If a team just puts a player in between the CB's and our DM, we're going to have a hard time - we'll be passing the ball around the back a ton.
     
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  10. Semblance17

    Semblance17 Member+

    Apr 27, 2013
    Lighthouse Point, FL
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    [​IMG]
     
  11. Ethan Frank

    Ethan Frank Member

    Chelsea
    United States
    Jun 11, 2019
    I'd recommend taking another look at that play, but we'll probably end up just disagreeing. Heath's initial kick had nothing like that curve and was clearly headed wide of the goal. That deflection added the necessary curve and direction to take the ball past Lindahl. This wasn't stupidity, and it wasn't a legitimate goal for Heath. An off target shot that went in because of an extended leg from a defender in an attempt to block the effort. Sounds like a textbook own goal for me. Correct decision to give the goal as an own goal and not Heath's.
     
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  12. Semblance17

    Semblance17 Member+

    Apr 27, 2013
    Lighthouse Point, FL
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #162 Semblance17, Jun 20, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2019
    Looking at the replay again the deflection was more significant than I remember it being, and there may have been a slight forward deflection, but the redirection was still far, far more upward [a lot of spin on it]. Closer than I thought, but I stand by my opinion that the goal rightfully belongs to Heath. Partially because I'm not convinced that ball unobstructed wouldn't have ricocheted off the inside far post and into the net [there's no telling with any certainty where exactly the ball would have ended up without the deflection], partially because like I said I haven't ruled out the possibility that that Heath engineered that deflection [and deserves the credit for forcing it either way]. The redirection mainly worked the ball around an obstruction [the GK], rather than putting the ball into the net on [any of] its own power.

    I can see now how it could be viewed as an own goal and the ruling doesn't bother me nearly as much as before, but to me it's anything but black-and-white. In my mind it's still a Heath goal.
     
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  13. Semblance17

    Semblance17 Member+

    Apr 27, 2013
    Lighthouse Point, FL
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We definitely got lucky a few times and Sweden's offense wasn't too compelling, but I'm glad we've kept our shutout streak alive for now. To me, nothing will be more vital to our success in the knockout rounds [as it was in 2015] than keeping the ball out of our net. If we do that, all we'll need is one goal a game [as stressful as that might be to watch].

    Not sure if this quote is properly attributed, but it's true either way [counting PKs as scoring, of course].
    [​IMG]
     
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  14. Ethan Frank

    Ethan Frank Member

    Chelsea
    United States
    Jun 11, 2019
    Heath does deserve credit for forcing it, but there's no way she intentionally hit the ball off of Andersson if that's what you're saying. Still think this had to be given as an own goal, but I do understand your point.
     
  15. Semblance17

    Semblance17 Member+

    Apr 27, 2013
    Lighthouse Point, FL
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Anything is possible. :)
     
  16. PacmanJr_00

    PacmanJr_00 Member

    Aug 29, 2010
    Club:
    Southampton FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't know what you are talking about. It was clearly, "one of the greatest individual efforts of the world cup, so far."
     
  17. Lloyd Heilbrunn

    Lloyd Heilbrunn Member+

    Feb 11, 2002
    Jupiter, Fl.
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'll agree we didn't attack well through the middle, mostly because they struggled to find Morgan or Lloyd.

    But I disagree that we only looked for crosses, there was a number times where the ball was pulled back to the top of the box on the ground. The problem was that the midfielders either got beat to the ball, or shot poorly from the top of the box or just outside the top of the box...
     
  18. ntxsage

    ntxsage Member

    Apr 25, 2012
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    I'm not typically an Ellis fan, but sure seems like tactically she's doing an awful lot right. Yes they're using width, but it's not predictable and it's usually expertly executed cross field switches. Lavelle is cutting inside penetrating centrally, and it was only poor finishing that kept her from a couple assists. They're creating plenty of chances IMO.

    Rapinoe hasnt been brilliant, but she is a better decision maker in the attacking third than Press. For me the most wasteful starter is Heath. She's flashy but not terribly effective, and most of her touches dont produce anything but a hopeful cross from a terrible angle. I still think Ellis has done a great job preparing the team, and likely has a few adjustments up her sleeve to clean up the attack. I think they can score enough to make a deep run...can the D hold is the question for me.
     
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  19. Lloyd Heilbrunn

    Lloyd Heilbrunn Member+

    Feb 11, 2002
    Jupiter, Fl.
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    She should have kept the blonde.
     
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  20. Lloyd Heilbrunn

    Lloyd Heilbrunn Member+

    Feb 11, 2002
    Jupiter, Fl.
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    She's a tricky dribbler and able to beat more than one player. The problem is she slows down the attack horribly when she attempts to do so. She needs to cut more inside, so that she at least draws fouls in a shooting area.
     
  21. ntxsage

    ntxsage Member

    Apr 25, 2012
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    She might be able to beat more than 1 player but she doesnt consistently do it. More often than not she is dispossessed.
     
  22. RalleeMonkey

    RalleeMonkey Member+

    Aug 30, 2004
    here
    I don't think that the problem is either Tobin or Pinoe - it's the two of them together. For wingers, they both slow down the play instead of accelerate it. And, Morgan doesn't really explode into space either. We have a pretty slow front line. Add in Horan and Ertz, it's a slow team. They're all great, but collectively, they're slow.

    And, to be repetitive, contrary to the how things are normally done, our wings slow things down, rather than speed things up.

    It's funny - Tobin obviously does so much work on her own, but it looks like it's mostly static stuff. She has improved her attacking at speed, but still has a strong preference for stopping and setting up her moves.
     
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  23. kolabear

    kolabear Member+

    Nov 10, 2006
    los angeles
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Running towards the ball in order to play it?

    Of course we've been through this on the referee forum. Of course you're correct this is the way FIFA and its referees have decided to define "active" play and "participation" in a play. And the fact that it's counter to common-sense doesn't stop them.

    You have the rules and the rule-makers on your side. You have authority on your side. It doesn't make it right. It doesn't make it common-sense. It doesn't make it in the spirit of the game. It doesn't make it a better game for either the players or the fans.

    You should acknowledge that. People aren't stupid just for loving the game the way it should be played. It's only referees and refereeing wonks who get excited over a chance to be "right' while everyone else is wrong. And some of the referees in the Forum at least acknowledge how much they hate this interpretation of Law 11

     
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  24. kolabear

    kolabear Member+

    Nov 10, 2006
    los angeles
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    the reason why I finally jumped on the Tobin Heath bandwagon is because in the last 2 years, it seemed to me she was beginning to know when to play simply and quickly. Still, of course, has her tremendous flashy skills but also made the quick simple plays as well as knowing what simple thing to do after all the tricky moves along the endline. What I saw of this match (and I was a total Christiane Endler fanboy and watched long stretches of Chile/Thailand) seemed to mirror the criticisms I'm reading of Heath here - it looked like she forgot when to keep it simple. I have to hope it was an aberration, a one-game reversion to old bad habits.
     
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  25. Ethan Frank

    Ethan Frank Member

    Chelsea
    United States
    Jun 11, 2019
    I remember reading something in the ref forum about FIFA/IFAB not wanting to award defensive mistakes. However, on the flip side, I think they are awarding offensive mistakes, mainly poor timing of runs. Lloyd (and Kerr) really had no reason to be offside; they're both clearly capable of holding their runs in such situations. However, the current rules punish the defensive mistakes and reward the poor timing of offensive runs. As the ref forum mentioned, the rules are definitely made in the interest of having more goals scored.
     
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