So general trivializations instead? Messi assists and pre-assists are surely from longer distance on average, than Maradona or Pele. Not only that but they are definitely higher quality on average. Top 3 Most through balls 09-16 in Europe's Top 5 leagues, Uefa Champions League and Europa League (18.1.16) 251 Messi 181 Fabregas 170 Totti Messi is complete outlier, I don't think Maradona was at his time. This is just playmaking passing of last season, I don't think you'll find similar quality anywhere you look. What I'm trying to understand is, what kind of function gets all Maradona, Pele and Cruyff almost tied, well above Messi in domestic performance for you?
You compare Maradona and Cruyff's entire domestic career with Messi who has collected a lot fewer seasons It is mainly about collective performance. Messi has played fewer seasons (9.35) with at least int.class than Cruyff (12.4) and Maradona (12) . Note that Maradona in his pre-20 years old already achieved one of his peak performance. I would stop to discuss about the quantitative stats when my explanation should have been enough.
It is calculated based on number of appearances. 10 % disappearance is allowed to obtain the full ratio. Less than that has been deducted proportionally.
Recently so busy so just return. Maradona faced a higher quality defenders in Series A and I saw he even take more dangerous dribbling than Messi made in La Liga. Also, Maradona carried the team in midfield phenomenally. Productivity stats could be compared only between players with the same role. Maradona is midfielder and Messi is forward. If you still wanna compare, you need to give a negative marginal standard value for midfielder. For Cruyff, he ran in all areas of midfield and front-line and his best ability is known to be vision which is immeasurable quantitatively and best at measuring quality in general. Once again you can't refer to only productivity stats.
How did Maradona face higher quality defenders? How do you arrive to that conclusion? Maradona faced different defending tactics. Messi faces parked busses and collective marking where defenders are much closer to each other, which makes individual dribbling actually harder. Messi has dribbled more than Maradona in Argentina shirt also, playing the same position against harder defences. Successful dribbles for Argentina Messi WC10 34 (5) Messi CA11 32 (4) Messi WC14 46 (7) Messi CA15 43 (6) 7,05 per game (22) Maradona WC82 30 (5) Maradona WC86 53 (7) 6,92 per game (12) Again, just like in passing, Messi is complete outlier today. 09-16 Top 5 leagues + UCL Most Dribbles 1415 Messi (+62%) 874 Hazard 774 Ribery I don't agree with Cruyff assesment either, can you give a concrete argument? Messi is as good passer and has similar vision, in dribbling (and scoring) Messi is in different class however. As of running everywhere on the field, do you actually follow Barcelona matches? Messi runs everywhere in midfield and attack, for example just yesterday he was collecting the ball as 3rd lowest player in 3 or 4 instances. As of propoced quality differences, how much does Cruyff suffer for playing 6th best league to Maradona playing higher quality league and Messi playing even higher quality league? League quality index (relation to Uefa coefficient) Messi 6 titles in 8 seasons (08-16) 1.00 Spain (154596) (+0.17) 0.83 England (127569) 0.82 Germany (126613) 0.70 Italy (108813) Maradona 2 titles in 6 seasons (84-90) 1.00 Italy (54212) (+0.03) 0.97 Germany (52593) 0.86 Spain (46499) 0.75 Belgium (40633) Cruyff 5 titles in 7 seasons (66-73) 1.00 England (72231) 0.80 Italy (57593) 0.73 Hungary (52499) 0.69 Scotland (49599) 0.67 Germany (48592) 0.67 Netherlands (48200) (-0.33)
Messi just played deeper similar to free-role when Neymar and L.Suarez came in the team but the productivity stats you cite is mostly made by his years as a forward when the main creator in Barcelona midfield is Xavi and Iniesta. You once again refer to trophy stats so I think you cannot resolute between individual and team performance and the further discussion would not be made properly so I would not go on for this case anymore.
Messi has been the main playmaker or creator in Barca since 10-11. In 11-12 he started giving through balls like no one has ever done, many from deep positions as central circle. Most seasonal through balls in Top 5 leagues and UCL (Opta, since 2009) 71 Messi 11-12 52 Xavi 09-10 52 Ronaldinho 09-10 48 Messi 14-15 48 Totti 12-13 I think you read it wrong, the quality relation of the league is to Uefa coefficient which was the argument of about league quality, not the titles. You haven't really argued concretely yet, just given some vague generalizations.
Messi 6 titles in 8 seasons (08-16) Maradona 2 titles in 6 seasons (84-90) Cruyff 5 titles in 7 seasons (66-73) You wrote this by yourself. These are not title ? It is really ridiculous.
It was ready made concrete argument for majority of their peak careers: "As of propoced quality differences, how much does Cruyff suffer for playing 6th best league to Maradona playing higher quality league and Messi playing even higher quality league?" League quality index (relation to Uefa coefficient) Don't concentrate on titles, concentrate on relation to rest of the top leagues.
Lol, you have proved to be dishonest. If league title has no meaning, why standard of competition is needed ?
You related quality of opponent defense to standard of competition ? So if assume all teams in a league has a great defensive ability but poor in offensive, the league could achieve very high standard ? and how to relate level of teammate to standard of competition ?
No, quality of opponents. Quality of defenders is related by you to how big names they were? If big name players and team mates play bad, team can still win with one player picking up their slack?
OK, I’m sorry but I really would not dedicate to waste time to study your irregular turbulence of thought anymore.
Some more relativity, Napoli at Maradona's time was the biggest spending team in Europe, and they had the same amount of NT regulars as other top teams. Here's Bagni against Milan 85-86 Russo, Maldini, Tassotti, Di Bartolomei, Galli backline. Better goal than Maradona ever scored in Napoli against anyone. When was the last time Messis team mate scored as good solo-goal with Barcelona against anyone in 08-16, nevermind against Real Madrid in CL SF (highest spending team at the time), or Bilbao in Cup final? How does this relate to "big names" for you, in opponent defenders or ability of team mates?
The Paraguayan league is the only league could not be found its complete historical result record. The best source is now available in rsssf http://www.rsssf.com/tablesp/parahist.html that is last updated in 2007 but most seasons just show the points (not know games win, draw and lost and also none of goal difference record). If anyone possess or discover such a rare data, please kindly contribute me. There will be 3 Paraguyan clubs to be evaluated in the system to establish top 50 Latin American clubs of all-time.
http://xtravictory.blogspot.com/2015/10/the-club-evaluation-result.html Now the 100 European clubs of all-time implementation project has been finished. Honesty it is not overstatement that this project is the most effortful thing in my life as I count performance for every competitions, points, goal difference and finished place. I rethought many times if I would change methodology for softer implementation such as counting only finished place but finally I would not satisfy ever and cannot endure to ignore for revision in the future that is waste time. Also, the methodological design and implementation is something need to get very high patient since the primary design would never be divisible as long as having not implemented yet and that means sometimes I found a better method after implementation that get into deeper details and need to re-implement over again. Finally the excel database was implemented around 32 MB for European club project. Anyway, I modifies the work as a research paper with the same content of general research literature including Introduction, methodology, result discussion and reference. The methodology might be difficult to understand so I would conclude in easier sentence ; - Top level of the winner of European competitions were determined by qualitative analysis (This is the only part for qualitative analysis). In non-int club era, friendly match results support to determine top level team in each league but not all of them is available and performance of national team are applied. - The top level performance of the league need to use quadratic equation to relate between Top performance in int.club and point-goal difference performance in the league. - The variance is calculated for competitive level and multiply wit top level to find standard of competition. - The system is designed to eliminate a large portion of advantage/disadvantage by standardizing opportunity of international club participation. - The performance in second tier is also included by benchmarking the performance of promoted team in the first tier. - The performance is rated by competition levels but the final score use only seasonal aggregate total as the objective of football is to win all trophy not optimize every competition level. - The proportional weight is applied from peak season to lowest performance seasons to prevent the high amount of average performance take the top places. That means the shorter-life clubs such as Paris-SG or the shorter peak club likes Nottigham Forest still have a place in the list - Trophy bonus is also applied but the domestic league bonus is given for only a club with the best performance in Europe. For the non-int-club era, the domestic bonus is two times higher value given. Int club bonus is given to UCL, EC and pre-1998 UEFA cup only as the winners of them are considered to be the champion of Europe. Cup Winner Cup and post-1997 UEFA cup is blank for bonus. Finally I get all Svemska Cupen record from Java file. The Hungarian and Czechslovakian Cup are unavailable in some seasons and those clubs are likely to be more underrated than overrated except Ferenvaroc who has a seasonal record in its page. For the Latin American club and World Club, I plan to finish within the first week of January 2017. I would implement 50 clubs (Domestic is only 47 clubs as Paraguayan league has no record in too many seasons). Brazilian football is definitely the most difficult and challengeable for me as its format of competition is too irregular and turbulence. Not likes European club that Real Madrid is foreseen to be number one. I'm really not sure if Penarol, River Plate or Boca would finally be a number one.
The footballers evaluation format is also changed to the research paper format and move to research part of the blog to clarify about the evaluation works. http://xtrahistory.blogspot.com/2013/01/Competition-Level.html