WORLD CUP 1950 - Retconned

Discussion in 'The Beautiful Game' started by msioux75, Dec 31, 2017.

  1. peterhrt

    peterhrt Member+

    Oct 21, 2015
    Club:
    Leeds United AFC
    Scotland cannot now progress to the next round.

    Two changes have been made for the match against Italy. Bobby Collins makes his international debut, while Bauld comes in for Waddell.

    Liddell switches over to the right-wing, allowing Reilly to move from the centre to the left.


    ---------------------------------Jimmy Cowan (Greenock Morton)-------------------------

    George Young-----------------Willie Woodburn-----------Sammy Cox (All Rangers)

    ----------------Bobby Evans (Celtic)--------------Alex Forbes (Arsenal)----------------

    ----------------Bobby Collins (Celtic)--------------Billy Steel (Derby)--------------------

    Billy Liddell (Liverpool)-------Willie Bauld (Hearts)-------Lawrie Reilly (Hibernian)
     
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  2. La-Máquina

    La-Máquina BigSoccer Supporter

    Mar 5, 2013
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    2nd game versus England.

    Yugoslavia add Branko Zebec to the attack, and Beara in goal.

    [​IMG]
     
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  3. La-Máquina

    La-Máquina BigSoccer Supporter

    Mar 5, 2013
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    2nd game versus Scotland

    Ezio Loik rejoins his club partner Valentino Mazzola in midfield to pull the strings. Lazio boasted the toughest defence in Serie A, and their goalkeeper, Lucidio Sentimenti, steps up here to play between the sticks.

    [​IMG]
     
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  4. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    I thought that group A was the toughest.

    But, Group B has been the "Group of Death"
     
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  5. Perú FC

    Perú FC Member+

    Nov 16, 2007
    Lima, Perú
    [​IMG]

    Argentina makes 2 changes with respect with its first match: Ernesto Gutiérrez instead of Natalio Pescia and Adolfo Pedernera instead of Norberto Méndez.

    The technical team considers that against Austria it's necessary to ensure the possession of the ball in midfield and reduce the participation of Ocwirk as organizing axis. The entrance of "El Rey Petiso" Gutiérrez (currently a pillar of the dominant Racing Club in Argentina) ensures a multifunctional midfielder capable of defending and attacking on the same level, which points to the objective. Meanwhile, "El Maestro" Pedernera will enter to be the playmaker of this team, who manages the ryhthms. Now star of Millonarios, he's forming and excellent offensive society with Di Stéfano, the same that we expect them to reproduce again here, but he also formed a legendary society with Moreno a few years ago and they hope to reach their peak once again in their great challenge.
     
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  6. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    All three matches are very close, IMO. After a long time to think, here I go!

    England 2 - 2 Yugoslavia (Lawton, Finney, Vukas, Bobek). MotM. Matthews
    With two near references (also very tight). I see England progressing through the wings, but yugoslavian firepower is great, even England is more balanced team.

    Argentina 2 - 1 Austria (Loustau, Boyé, Dienst). MotM. Happel
    Maybe, surprised with my MotM, but I think, austrian defensive block is able to stop argentine attack, for the most part. The clash whom control the midfield will be really exciting to watch,

    Italy 2 - 1 Scotland (Mazzola, Menti, Steel). MotM. Mazzola
    A match without references, I see both very hard at defense and an exciting end-to-end encounter, a match for inside forwards.

    Brazil vs Hungary. I'm happy to not vote on this one :)


    Just a couple of votes by now, so it still possible to change the course of WC 1950! Or ending in a similar way!!!
     
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  7. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    Btw, maybe other managers see things different.
    Maybe, it would be interesting check what others think.
     
  8. tLB Odiseo

    tLB Odiseo Member

    Necaxa, Galatasaray, Real Madrid
    Dec 18, 2011
    México
    Club:
    NEC
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    I will vote today at night.
     
  9. tLB Odiseo

    tLB Odiseo Member

    Necaxa, Galatasaray, Real Madrid
    Dec 18, 2011
    México
    Club:
    NEC
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    My scores

    England 2 - 2 Yugoslavia
    (Lawton, Finney; Zebec, Vukas) MotM. Branco Zebec

    Argentina 2 - 2 Austria (Pedernera, Di Stéfano; Decker, Dienst) MotM. Ernst Ocwirk

    Italy 3 - 1 Scotland (Mazzola x2, Menti; Liddel) MotM. Valentino Mazzola

    Brazil 3 vs 4 Hungary (Ademir x2, Zizinho; Kocsis, Puskás x2, Hidegkuti) MotM. Jozsef Bozsik
     
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  10. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    These were the scores I 'dreamt up' for all first phase matches not involving my teams. I also included times for each goal scored, but here I'll just show what score I had it at at half-time, in brackets. Obviously the 'real' scores, as revealed by msioux, are a bit different, but yes these were my votes:


    Brazil 4 (2) vs Spain 2 (0)
    Ademir 3, Jair : Zarra, Basora
    MOTM: Zizinho

    Uruguay 2 (0) vs Yugoslavia 2 (0)
    Gomez, Schiaffino : Mitic (pen), Bobek
    MOTM: Vukas

    Argentina 4 (2) vs Denmark 2 (1)
    Di Stefano 2, Moreno 2 : J.Hansen, Praest
    MOTM: Di Stefano

    Austria 3 (1) vs Denmark 2 (1)
    Stojaspal, Melchior, Hanappi : J.Hansen 2
    MOTM: Ocwirk

    Argentina 3 (1) vs Austria 1 (0)
    Loustau, Di Stefano, Pedernera : Stojaspal
    MOTM: Pedernera

    Italy 2 (2) vs Sweden 2 (1)
    Mazzola, Boniperti : G.Nordahl, Gren
    MOTM: Skoglund

    Sweden 4 (1) vs Scotland 2 (1)
    G.Nordahl 2, Gren, Jepsson : Liddell 2
    MOTM: Liedholm

    Italy 2 (1) vs Scotland 1 (0)
    Amadei, Mazzola : Steel
    MOTM: Menti
     
  11. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    Match Days Results 5 & 6:

    A: HUN 3 - 3 BRA (3:3, 2:3, 4:3)
    B: YUG 2 - 2 ENG (2:2, 0:1, 2:2, 2:2)
    C: AUT 1 - 2 ARG (1:2, 1:3, 2:2)
    D: SCO 1 - 2 ITA (1:2, 1:2, 1:3, 0:1)
     
  12. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    In both italian games, you guess the final results, i think also scorers.
     
  13. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    If they hadn't just been eliminated probably I'd be trying to find a bookmakers to place some bets in for their next games! Or maybe it would trigger a match fixing investigation - but if it would be the Italian players involved it would have to be a "they score when they want" kind of situation lol.

    Hungary vs Brazil must've been a good game!
     
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  14. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    FINAL TABLES

    Group A
    ------------ W D L GF GA GD PTS
    Brazil ---- 1 1 0 - 7 - 4 -- 3 -- 3
    Hungary 1 1 0 - 6 - 4 -- 2 -- 3
    Spain ---- 0 0 2 - 2 - 7 - -5 -- 0

    Group B
    --------------- W D L GF GA GD PTS
    Uruguay --- 1 1 0 - 3 -- 2 - 1 -- 3
    England --- 0 2 0 - 3 -- 3 - 0 -- 2
    Yugoslavia 0 1 1 -3 -- 4 - -1 - 1

    Group C
    --------------- W D L GF GA GD PTS
    Argentina 2 0 0 - 5 -- 2 - 3 -- 4
    Austria --- 1 0 1 - 4 -- 3 -1 --- 2
    Denmark -0 0 2 - 2 -- 6 --4 -- 0

    Group D
    ------------- W D L GF GA GD PTS
    Sweden -1 1 0 - 5 -- 3 -- 2 -- 3
    Italia ----- 1 1 0 - 4 -- 3 -- 1 -- 3
    Scotland 0 0 2 - 2 -- 5 - -3 -- 0
     
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  15. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    Final Group Schedule

    Match day 8:
    Brazil vs Uruguay
    Argentina vs Sweden

    Match day 10:
    Brazil vs Sweden
    Uruguay vs Argentina

    Match day 12:
    Brazil vs Argentina
    Uruguay vs Sweden

    The venues will be Maracaná and Pacaembú stadiums.
    The referees: Williams (Wal), Galeati (Ita) and Reader (Eng)
     
  16. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    Goalscoring charts

    At the end of group stage, these are the goalscorers:

    G.Nordhal - 3
    Ademir - 3
    Di Stéfano - 3
    Puskas - 3
    Gren - 2
    Schiaffino - 2
    Zizinho - 2
    Zarra - 2
    J.Hansen - 2
    Mazzola - 2
    Vukas - 2


    Best players

    At the end of group stage, the best players elected by Technical Commitee (no order) were:

    Mazzola - Italia
    Zizinho - Brazil
    Bozsik - Hungary
    Ocwirk - Austria
    Liedholm - Sweden
     
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  17. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    Day 5 - Result

    Group A:
    HUNGARY 3 (Puskas 2g, Kocsis)
    BRAZIL---- 3 (Zizinho, Ademir, Danilo)

    MotM: Zizinho

    Report:
    The press saw this game as a sort of Final Match, the local goal machine against an equal and younger talented team. The midfield zone turned into a show in whom can play the better football, Bozsik and Palotas for magyars against Danilo and a young Didi with Zizinho's help for brazilians.

    It was a matter of time, the score will be open and the first one was Zizinho in a beautiful display dribbling three rivals. Magyars reply quickly with a brace by Puskas with a formidable shot and other netting a good crossing by Nyers.

    Both hungarians wingers, Nyers and Hidegkuti proved to being a constant threat for brazilian defense, same as Tesourinha in the local side, it was this player who made a precise crossing to Ademir to the equaliser.

    In the second half, Brazil pressed by local fans, seems to achieve the victory, when they took the lead after Danilo scored a beautiful goal after a combination between Zizinho, Ademir and himself. This goal was loudly celebrated by crowd and players, resulting in a fight quickly stopped by british referee.

    In the last minutes, Kocsis could scored one the many chances he got, after that, brazilian got worried, but happily to them, the match expired. Some players looked exhausted and with bruises on the prelude of Final Round Group.
     
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  18. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    Day 6 - Result

    Group A:
    ARGENTINA 2 (Loustau, Di Stéfano)
    AUSTRIA----- 1 (Dienst)

    MotM: Pedernera

    Report:
    In a game, in which the winner would advance, both teams played at their best, shining both playmakers, Pedernera and Ocwirk. In the argentinian side, Moreno was well controlled, progressing only by 1-2 with Pedernera. The short passing style of argentinians created the most clear chances, finding a last wall in Happel.

    The opener came after an austrian oversight that left winger exploit, dribbling past two defendera and scoring with an angle shot. The other winger, Boyé also created danger cutting inside the box to exploit his powerful shot.

    With the lead, rioplatenses showed overconfident, allowing austrian created many clear chances with its great central trio, after a good combination between them, Dienst scored the austrian goal.

    In the last minutes, argentinian blond striker surprise an exhausted defense with a lightning rush to score the winner.
     
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  19. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    Day 5 - Result

    Group B:
    YUGOSLAVIA 2 (Lawton, Finney)
    ENGLAND----- 2 (Bobek, Vukas)

    MotM: Matthews

    Report:
    Three lions must win this match to qualify, but an earlier goal by Bobek become an uphill struggle. So, England put its chances on wingers shoulder and they performed very well, scoring Lawton at first half and Finney the goal to manage an extra-game with Uruguay.

    The third goal was close, missing Lawton a good chance created by Matthews, but also the second by balcans who were dangerous at counters, mainly with Vukas and rookie Zebec, finally was Vukas who scored assisted by Mitic.
     
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  20. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    Day 6 - Result

    Group D:
    SCOTLAND 1 (Steel)
    ITALIA-------- 2 (Menti, Mazzola)

    MotM: Mazzola

    Report:
    The azurri needed two goals margin to qualify, putting its best effort leading by a great Mazzola. The opener comes when Menti beat his marker and shot to the near post. Short time later, Mazzola scored the second after a brilliant solo run.

    In the second half, Scotland could balancing forces, pulling one back thanks a fast combination between Steel and Liddell. Italy reacted and put a constant attack being close to the third goal, but Cowan made two great saves from Mazzola and Amadei shots.
     
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  21. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Hungary and England have agreed to meet up for a consolation kick-about, featuring starts for the unused players and 5 half-time substitutions each.

    The result will probably remain private and travelling fans are trying to buy tickets for remaining games (the ones not featuring Brazil might be easier to get in to see though) and so are dining out on Fish and Chips, Dobos Cake and Palinka in recently established Anglo-Hungarian eateries around Brazil, near to the stadiums.

    So no votes required, but these are the reported line-ups:
    England - Williams; Ramsey, Franklin, Eckersley; Wright (Nicholson), Mercer; Mannion (Mortensen), Shackleton (Bailey); Finney, Lawton (Milburn), Froggatt (Matthews, with Finney switching wings)
    Hungary - Grosics; Buzanszky, Lorant, Lantos; Bozsik, Zakarias; Budai (Kubala), Hidegkuti (Palotas), Czibor (Nyers); Deak (Kocsis), Puskas (Szusza)

    It is immediately evident that England are confused by the deep-lying centre-forward, especially as they haven't yet had chance to view the Brazil vs Hungary cinefilm. Still, maybe in about 3 years time it'll help them make a good contest of a 'Game of the Century' between those nations, should it occur. The World Champions in this fully participated tournament will surely dispute any such title for a friendly game, even if nobody actually won vs England or Hungary (England did also not get a win themselves though).
     
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  22. Excape Goat

    Excape Goat Member+

    Mar 18, 1999
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Against Argentina:

    We heard about La Maquina of River Plate before the WC Finals and our scouts have seen what they could do in their first two matches.

    Our basic lineup remained the same: The famous "Gre-No-Li" in their prime lined up with Lennart Skoglund and Gunnar Nordahl's two brothers, Bertil and Knut. Our captain Erik Nilsson stays in the back. We decided to bring back Henry Carlsson from the first game. He had won an Olympic Gold Medal with "Gre-No-Li". He is in top shape after winning the league title in Spain with Atletcio Madrid(in real life, this was Helenio Herrera's team that featured Larbi Ben Barek and was considered one of Atletico Madrid's greatest evert team). This front five played against Italy in the first match.

    Behind them, I will make a single change from the first two matches. Ingvar Gärd will replace Lennart Samuelsson. We will play him with Sune Andersson in the midfield. I put Knut Nordahl in the defence next to his brother Bertil. This will be my third line in as many matches.

    (In real life, Ingvar Gärd and Sune Andersson were the starting pair there at the WC Finals in 1950. Gard moved to Sampdoria after the WC Finals. Knut Nordahl also played in the back during his time in Italy)


    [​IMG]
     
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  23. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    #123 msioux75, Jan 27, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2018
    A really crazy end of first group phase, virtually in every group the second places were to one goal to advance from their groups or force an extra-game.
     
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  24. tLB Odiseo

    tLB Odiseo Member

    Necaxa, Galatasaray, Real Madrid
    Dec 18, 2011
    México
    Club:
    NEC
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    My match against Brazil
    Preliminaries

    The national team of Uruguay had an interview before the game and we showed the most relevant:

    Reporter: Mr. Odiseo, tell me how the team feels before starting the final phase of the tournament.

    Odiseo: We feel very confident, we have worked hard, harder than all the other teams, we have practiced tactics that will be seen in several decades in the future, well, we are the current champions.

    Reporter: You have had some problem with some other team, since you are lodged in the same hotel.

    Odiseo: Everything has been fine, only that we didn't like the way they treated us. What happens is that all the other teams when they see us, they ask us for autographs, especially to Schiaffino and Varela, and we don't want to, we want they see us as equals.

    Reporter: well, it's that you are the champions, the best. On the other hand, we have seen many fans going to your training, more than any other team.

    Odiseo: Of course, we have been training openly because we want to teach everyone our champagne football.

    Reporter: We have also known that you have trained some young people from the public.

    Odiseo: it's true, there were several teenagers that we saw that had potential and my players were training them. They said they wanted to be just as good as Schiaffino ... we hope that some day they become great players, if you get to hear the name of Bobby Charlton, Uwe Seeler or Luis Suarez, well, we train them ... there's even a child who can become the best of all time, his name is Edson.

    Reporter: you are incredible Mr. ... tell me, we heard that you had a game behind closed doors, against who was and why?

    Odiseo: it's true, we wanted to try our new tactics and it was against the Hungarian team. We played behind closed doors because they didn't want to be embarrassed in a public match.

    Reporter: but they are a great team...

    Odiseo: they are, we even told them that if they continued to train as hard as we did, they could even win the next World Cup in 1954.

    Repoter: and what happened in the game, what emotion.

    Odiseo: I'll tell you this only, but I'm not going to make it public ... we beat them 7-1.

    Reporter: But why so much difference, maybe they didn't play with the starting players.

    Odiseo: what happens is that it isn't easy to play against the champion ... normally the teams are fearful before the game (as Brazil is at this moment) ... now we do play seriously, in the group stage our matches were warm-up simply.

    But as we told them ... they have potential and can win the next world cup.

    We have even invited them to Uruguay to train there, only then can they become champions.

    Reporter: we also heard that they wanted to bring reinforcements, who was it?

    Odiseo: Sure, we wanted José Leandro Andrade and José Nasazzi but the other teams did not accept, actually Zizinho, Di Stéfano and Nordahl said that it would be impossible for them to score a goal with a tremendous defensive line and midfield. And it is true, it would be a great advantage for us.

    Reporter: We would have loved to see those 2 great players again.

    Thank you for accepting this interview, no other team accepted.

    Odiseo: For nothing, when you wish.


    Formation: W-M
    [​IMG]
    In this formation, our tactic is aimed at winning the ball in the midfield and be incisive for the wings as we have been in previous matches.

    For this, Matías Gonzalez will play as a kind of libero (he is known as Maracana's Lyon due to his great performance in the final against Brazil and to avoid a goal from that team)., and Walter Gómez will be a trequartista/forward who will help in the movement of the ball from a second line of midfielders with Schiaffino.

    If Víctor Andrade or Gambetta joins to the attack, so Matias Gonzalez will go back to fill the hole, the same Varela if both join to te attack at the same time.

    And well ... of my players are in the best period of their careers.

     
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  25. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    Brazil v Uruguay

    For this game, there's one change, Heleno x Jair. Known as "The Prince" or "White diamond" in contrast to Leonidas, Heleno de Freitas has been, alongside Zizinho, the best brazilian player in the 1940s.

    Heleno and Tesourinha upfront, and Nilton Santos are the new faces in this traditional match. The system is the Diagonal.

    [​IMG]
    At defense, Nilton Santos will have the help of Danilo first and lastly Juvenal to watch out for Ghiggia, Bauer could play as an extra defender filling the gaps.

    Tallest and well positioned halves will take care of uruguayan creators of play, also Zizinho could help in defensive task, especially to block Varela before throwing long passes.

    In the offensive play, there is a lot of rotation, fast passing, dribbling and firepower upfront. Zizinho is back to the playmaker role, being utility in defending and finishing play. As a versatile player, Ademir is back to his usual (club level) Inside Forward role, having free license to roam, still being close to uruguayan area. Heleno bring to the game a complete set of skills (shooting, dribbling, passing, ball control and heading), also a strong winner mentality. Both wingers will have the task to be incisive, especially Tesourinha.
     
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