This is a sort of companion thread to Mike's excellent "Chants and Songs" thread located elsewhere under this general heading... Now...some of you are going to take a looks at this thread title and say..."Why do we need to bother?" We do, I think. Here's why... The game in this country, even on the professional levels, is marketed to the sporting public as a family event...much on the order of Major League Baseball, when you think about it. The "hardcore" supporter - us - will ALWAYS be outnumbered by folks who have brought their kids to the game but still want to cheer for their country. Think about it...if it wasn't the case, we wouldn't have to worry about getting ourselves a "supporters section" at a home qualifier. We could just show up, stand up, and yell to our hearts content. (Much akin to the the NFL - which is definitely NOT marketed as a family event. No worries about wearing crazy stuff, drinking tons, and destroying your vocal chords at an NFL game...) We still are at a point where, if we don't get a whole bunch of people showing up in those "hardcore" sections, we're in trouble as far as getting things going. (The experiences I had at the WWC in Philadelphia '03 as well as this year in Seattle at the Gold Cup - especially in the Canada match - show what can happen when "The Army" lacks sufficient numbers...) We need everybody we can get - including the soccer moms. We need them working with us, not against us. They want to cheer for their country. Their kids REALLY want to cheer for their country. Let's help 'em out... How? Two ways...both of which will make you all go, "well, duh", but it still needs to be brought out... 1) Keep it simple! There are a lot of wonderful, inventive, creative chants/songs that will not catch on with the US Soccer-attending public in general because they are either too complicated or too new. Start with what people know. They know U-S-A! Yes, we'd like to move well beyond that, but they know it. It's a start. Most Americans know "America the Beautiful". I think they'd sing it - especially if they knew it was coming (that's a problem for later on in this thread, perhaps). There's simple stuff - stuff we can "appropriate" for other American sporting experiences - that the Soccer Mom will know and will do. (and no, I have no desire to turn this thread into another debate on the-hand-motion-and-chant-that-must-not-be-named) That doesn't mean we can't try to do some of the creative stuff...in fact, I'd love to see somebody (anybody!) come up with something singable to replace "Goals, Goals, Goals"... Oh, yes...our "re-written" version of "Goals, Goals, Goals" leads me to my other point... 2) Keep it clean! ...or perhaps amend that to "Keep it relatively clean"... Again, this is a debate we've had before...especially after the "You suck, a******" chants in the Jamaica match that were picked up by the ESPN mics... No, I'm not advocating we treat the Army sections like it was Sunday School...it's right there in the guidelines, after all. Some of it is expected (and in some cases, like having Peter Prendergast as your referee, probably warranted)...perhaps we can minimize it...or at least make the attempt to moderate it a bit. After all...what sounds cooler? A couple hundred fans questioning the sexual habits of the opposing keeper? Or 35,000 people clapping along with "If you're to cheer the US"... Again, there's stuff we can do that the kids will join in on that their mothers won't be either complaining to security about or reaching for the Lifebouy to stuff between their (or our) upper and lower plates... Our call, I guess. Flame away.
Flame you, Bluecat? I'm more inclined to give you a "+" rep. I've seen the song and chants thread you're talking about and I'd say that 80-85% of those chants have no chance of catching on outside SA. I'd also say that several of the chants that SA uses does not have a chance of catching on outside of SA, because it's not really part of American culture or American sporting culture, at least not at this point of time. The "chant-that-must-not-be-named" with the arm motion is well-known but offensive to some so that's out. However, we have other songs that most American fans would be familiar with... The "Hey Song" God Bless America America The Beautiful When Johnny Comes Marching Home (just humming or hollering the tune). My Country Tis of Thee (Maybe) That's 4 or 5 songs that most Americans, including soccer moms, would know that I believe would work well at a soccer match. That's enough for a soccer match. We got songs, now whether we sing them enough (or sing them loudly enough to be heard) is another matter. I'll say it again, if only we had a small band...
yeah thats great trying to win over the soccer moms and the kids but they arent gonna help create the atmosphere. How many kids do you know under the age of like 10 who pay attention to the entire match. A lot of them are more concerned about their dad getting them a hot dog than a beautiful run down the sideline. Look at other sports. How many women and children do you see chanting and singing at college football games. Take for example my Vols. The majority of people singing rocky top at the top of their lungs are students and younger male adults. I go with my dad to every UT home game and in our section there are three of us (coincedently one of my friends has season tix a few rows down) who really belt out rocky top or chants of defence while the rest occasionaly chime in. Non hardcore supporters of any sports team will never be big into chants and songs. The only way to add more atmosphere is to add more SA members. As soccer grows in the states so will the supporters club and so will the atmosphere. We dont need to curb our singing to fit in to soccer moms when they will probably never join us.
I agree completly. First off i think you are overrating the joining in of the Soccer mom. I've been to many soccer games and rarely, almost never, have they ever chanted or yelled anything. I cant see it happening. But we can add more SA members (and/or Good soccer fans). I think what the soccer demographic lacks the most is the Average fan. Maybe a male, 30 so years old gets drunk. Now he isnt chanting, or sitting and enertaining his kids. He is watching the game Attentively and might join in on a few chants when emotions are high and might yell etc. Now i think we are moving in the right direction there too. I got a feeling that USA vs Mex will be a great crowd. We go SA doing the singing, then 20,000 other fans watching attentively and enjoying the match. In recap we can leave the soccer moms outta this
Good post. Rep to follow There will always be those that complain "Why can't we fill a stadium?" or "There are not enough hard-core fans" or "Too many quiet people" and of course everyones favorite "Too many foriegners" and "Does anyone speak English here." SA is very important to any US home game. Can they tell Shaka Hislop that he is a sieve rather going into his mothers sexual history? Sure. Either way it is atmosphere. I've got a bus trip with 40+ coming to the game. 20 of which are kids between ages 7-15. Some would congratulate me for bringing so many to a Nats game, others will curse me for bringing kids and their moms. I purposely purchased our seats near SA (not in - I respect the 'bylaws') because (a.) its the cheapest ticket and (b.) this will be the best atmosphere in the stadium which will hopefully be taken in by those who are coming without any expectations. Would a prefer a 'cleaner' atmosphere? Yes, but I've been to hundreds of NFL, MLB and NHL games in my life in various levels of intoxication and have done it all, short of running on the field and fighting with other fans. We know its not going to be a kid's rec league game. I am not a fool to not know that a majority of these kids learned how to drop an 'F' - Bomb on the school bus in second grade. But I still wouldn't expect them to tell Dwight Yorke that he has AIDS. Hopefully for those the newbies on the trip, this will be the awakening that Nick Hornsby describes in 'Fever Pitch,' and new fans can be created whether hard core or any other level short of watching two World Cup final games becasue the US is on a winning streak.
Should we change the cheer to "Sir, I take issue with your style of play, I believe that you are not of sufficient quality to defeat our beloved US National team, and in general, you are lacking. May God have mercy on your Soul" I don't think we can fit all that in before the GK kicks the ball away. I'm just kidding of course. I agree with you on most points there Bluecat.
I agree with Bluecat82 on the means, but I disagree with the target audience. Having attended the most sanitized of soccer atmospheres on a regular basis (WUSA games) and trying my usual supporters schtick. I gotta say that we will not win the soccer mom into becoming an engaged fan. I even heard complaints about the Brazilian style drumming (just the drumming!!!) from them. Like I said, that atmosphere's cleaner than Pat Boone after a high colonic. They just were not into it. However, and this is where I disagree with fhsol76 and The Mutts, their kids were into it, and they were really into it. They were the ones who would sing along, yell, scream, and most importantly, contrbute songs and chants of their own. If these kids are into it, they'll not only drag their boring folks to these games, they'll eventually become foaming at the mouth, drunken hooligan American soccer fans. We are inspiring the future.
"Atmosphere" is an interesting term, and one that probably need to be defined. To me...for a base point, it's that intangible that makes the difference from simply being at a game to being at an event. Yes, one way to create that is to have 40,000 hardcore supporters singing for the full 90. As someone just south of the half-century mark, I fully expect to be dead and gone before that happens. I also fully expect to win at least one World Cup before I'm dead and gone, just to put things in perspective. (oh, and I agree with ggayle....when all is said and done, the kids are the true target audience...but you have to get their parents to take them at this point...it's all part of the master plan ) There are other ways to create atmosphere. Ways that some of the hard core don't approve of, but it sure gets the kids involved. Yeah, a lot of us hardcore hate those inflateable plastic bangers, but you know what? You knock 20,000 of those suckers together (see Kansas City, 2001), they're LOUD! I know...I was sitting in the middle of a bunch of them and could barely hear myself think. You get get 20,000 of them banging away in unison...that's atmosphere. As an aside, I love to see our crowds look like the stands at a Japanese baseball game...those guys are INTO IT! (or, haul out the tapes/DVD of US-SOuth Korea from 2002 - in my mind, that's the goal) Heck, you get 40,000 people waving foam rubber pigs in unison (Minnesota-Iowa football) and screaming, that's atmosphere - and if there's anyplace on Earth that can suck the energy out of a crowd like a vampire, it's the Metrodome - [Pacino] if I was half the man I was five years ago, I'd take a flame thrower to [that] place![/Pacino] Drums...cowbells..trumpets...we've got tools...lets' use 'em! The moms will tolerate us (and maybe even join in on America the Beautiful and U-S-A)...and the kids will love us. C'mon, guys! We're 'Mericans! Let's put that good ol' 'Merican know-how to good use! (If we ever play a match at Neyland, I'm not above singing "Rocky Top" every 10 minutes or so, either...play to the locals )
Some carefully planned words and nice cologne.... Oh wait, you want them to chant? Ummm lemme get back to you....
We should get this guy to start coming to games, we won't have any problem winning over the soccer moms then: