Will the Premiership dominate the CL?

Discussion in 'UEFA and Europe' started by evangel, Sep 18, 2008.

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  1. evangel

    evangel Member+

    Apr 12, 2007
    #1 evangel, Sep 18, 2008
    Since all threads like this end up with league comparisons, I'd like to ask a question. Why is it that people think the EPL will surely continue to dominate the Champions League? The main argument in favor of this, that EPL teams have much more money, holds little weight against the top teams of Spain and Italy. The top teams in the three leagues (plus Bayern Munich) still have similar values and revenues, according to Forbes and Deloitte. EPL dominance in this competition seems to be more due to better tactical decisions and better player acquisitions unrelated to large funds.

    Looking at this from a neutral point of view, Real Madrid and Inter look to have about as good a chance to win the CL as Liverpool or Man Utd (I'm not exactly a proponent of the theory that past history in the competition matters). Those teams just need better management. Absolutely nothing has changed in the CL. Any EPL dominance that comes from increased revenue would probably come more quickly in the UEFA Cup, but that has yet to happen. It could happen, but it's still too early to tell if it will.

    Regardless of whether Serie A is boring, they seem capable of the same success in European competitions that they've had in the past. And this "boring" aspect of the league only describes the mid-table teams. The likes of Juve and Inter don't have to rely on defensive tactics because they have enough quality players to go on the offensive often. The mid-table teams of any league tend to fall into predictable patterns of play because they lack the depth to constantly do anything else. This is what the EPL might change in the future if lower table teams are able to put their increased revenues to good use. How much increased they end up getting is another question that can't be answered right now.
     
  2. Prawn Sandwich

    Prawn Sandwich Member

    Oct 1, 2003
    Bhutan
    #2 Prawn Sandwich, Sep 19, 2008
    I've broken this post out into a separate thread so it can be treated as a topic in it's own right
     
  3. johan neeskens

    johan neeskens Member

    Jan 14, 2004
    #3 johan neeskens, Sep 19, 2008
    The answer is yes and they already do.
     
  4. GRBomber

    GRBomber Member

    Sep 12, 2005
    Brasília - Brazil
    Club:
    Sao Paulo FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    #4 GRBomber, Sep 19, 2008
    The last champions were Milan, Liverpool, Barcelona, Milan and Manchester United.
    I see no domination.
     
  5. 96Squig

    96Squig Member

    Feb 4, 2004
    Hanover
    Club:
    Hannover 96
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    #5 96Squig, Sep 19, 2008
    The depth in the EPL goes a bit deeper. Besides Bayern, Real, Barca, Milan, Inter and Juve in the long term no team can even come close to the Big 4 in the EPL, Teams like Roma, Lyon, Valencia and Bremen compete about players that would be of little interest to the big 4 anymore. The winner has not always been English recently, but if you look at the quarter finalists of the last 4 years you can clearly see English dominance taking shape.
     
  6. ZimbabweBob

    ZimbabweBob Member+

    May 16, 2007
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    #6 ZimbabweBob, Sep 19, 2008
    hopefully not...but probably
     
  7. O Fenômeno

    O Fenômeno New Member

    Apr 21, 2007
    New Jersey
    #7 O Fenômeno, Sep 19, 2008
    The TOP 3 clubs in England are atleast just as strong as OR BETTER than the top 3 in Spain,Italy,Germany...

    And yesi'm counting Liverpool in the TOP 3 for CL purposes....

    Man Utd (talent,money,prestige,manager)
    Liverpool (they are effective in the CL)
    Chelsea (talent,money,CL prestige)

    Italy is.....Roma? Inter?

    Spain Madrid, and Barca.

    I can see Barca,Madrid,Inter making the semis...I know they can compete. But atleast 2 EPL clubs are going to make it into the CL for the time being. Their product is good, and they have the money,talent, mangers...not like they are undeserving or something.
     
  8. evangel

    evangel Member+

    Apr 12, 2007
    #8 evangel, Sep 19, 2008
    I had tried to decide whether to post this in the other thread or start a new one. Ultimately seeing so many league comparison posts on that thread led me to post it there even if I was going somewhat off topic, but having had a few hours pass I can see it would have been better to start a new topic on it. Thank you for moving it.

    But that's my point. You can't ignore those teams and say that the EPL will dominate and win the CL year after year. Domination will only really come after the EPL Big 4 manage to surpass even those teams in bold. Right now CL domination is still in the hands of the same powerful teams of the past 15 years. Chelsea was the only recent addition to this group of powerhouses.
     
  9. erick

    erick Member

    Dec 6, 2007
    Bama Nation
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    #9 erick, Sep 19, 2008
    they have the best talent but u n eva noe in the CL and thats why its the best club competition because many teams have the chance to win.

    teams like real madrid,barca,b.m.,inter, and juve have a chance to win it but by far the EPL is the best league.
     
  10. SportBoy333

    SportBoy333 Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    #10 SportBoy333, Sep 19, 2008
    People think that only being champions means domnination. If you have 4 teams from the same league who are always in the quaters, semis or better every year then thats domination to me. Doesnt matter if one of them win it every year. The EPL Big 4 never ever fail to get out of their groups in the group stages. Thats domination to me. The 3rd and 4th place English teams 9 times out of 10 always win their qualifying match to get into the group stages(with the exception of Everton who arent part of the 'big 4' a few years ago) and that is domination to me. When you see the group stages come out every year, and u look at where the
    Big 4' are,its always a lock they get out of their groups and thats domination. You dont even have to look at the other teams in their groups to make the assesment of whos going through because you know the English team will be one of them.
     
  11. evangel

    evangel Member+

    Apr 12, 2007
    #11 evangel, Sep 19, 2008
    Did you somehow forget that Manchester United finished last in their group in the 05/06 season? Liverpool also had trouble getting out of their group last year. They're clear favorites to get out of the group stage, but it's not correct to say that they're guaranteed to do so.

    And you somehow seem to believe that the EPL teams are doing something they haven't done before. They make the knockout stages, just like the big teams of Spain and Italy do. The past two years have certainly favored the EPL teams. But will that continue? It's difficult to provide proof that they're certain to have continual dominance.
     
  12. SportBoy333

    SportBoy333 Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    #12 SportBoy333, Sep 19, 2008
    I thought Valencia finished bottom in their group last year. Liverpool were still one of the favorites and they got out. The budgets of the EPL teams dont seem to be going down any time soon and they'll just keep getting larger. More money equals better chance for dominance.
     
  13. johan neeskens

    johan neeskens Member

    Jan 14, 2004
    #13 johan neeskens, Sep 19, 2008
    The only reason they dominate right now is because they have the most money. It´s not on merit like in the old days.
     
  14. ManUSuperfan4Life

    ManUSuperfan4Life New Member

    Sep 17, 2008
    #14 ManUSuperfan4Life, Sep 19, 2008
    EPL teams will dominate the Champions League for the same reason that MLS clubs will never have international success: money.

    While money does not assure victory, it allows teams to have deep and talented rosters to compete on several fronts at once. At all levels, the EPL squads are much deeper than their Spanish and Italian counterparts.
     
  15. evangel

    evangel Member+

    Apr 12, 2007
    #15 evangel, Sep 19, 2008
    You're correct here. But I disagree with the notion that the EPL is so dominant that all their teams are guaranteed to make it far. You could make a safe bet that at least one EPL team will make it to the semifinals, but some people unrealistically believe that they will continue to get three teams in the semifinals every season.
     
  16. evangel

    evangel Member+

    Apr 12, 2007
    #16 evangel, Sep 19, 2008
    Except they don't have much more money than their Spanish and Italian counterparts. Look at the following:

    http://www.forbes.com/lists/2008/34/biz_soccer08_Soccer-Team-Valuations_Rank.html

    http://www.deloitte.com/dtt/article/0,1002,cid%3D193357,00.html
     
  17. SportBoy333

    SportBoy333 Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    #17 SportBoy333, Sep 19, 2008
    Manchester City has more money than Borussia Dortmand. That doesnt seem logical but its true. Less than 5 years from now teams like Portsmouth will have just as much money as the Spanish and Italian giants and they already got more money than the German and French bigger clubs.
     
  18. evangel

    evangel Member+

    Apr 12, 2007
    #18 evangel, Sep 19, 2008
    If you at the Forbes list I gave, it shows that Manchester City is not above Borussia Dortmund, in both revenue and Forbes' valuations, though the list is for the 06/07 season. Even if the smaller EPL teams grow, it won't make a difference in terms of CL football. England will continue to receive only four spots, the same as Italy and Spain, so there will continue to a balance between the three in this competition.
     
  19. glennaldo_sf

    glennaldo_sf Member+

    Houston Dynamo, Penang FC, Al Duhail
    United States
    Nov 25, 2004
    Doha, Qatar
    Club:
    FL Fart Vang Hedmark
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #19 glennaldo_sf, Sep 19, 2008
    Hmmm.... the last champions league had both finalists from the premiership, 3/4 semifinalists from the EPL.. in fact, the only team to eliminate and EPL team was in the quarterfinals by Liverpool - another EPL team. That's pretty much what I call domination. Milan won the previous CL but once again, 3/4 semifinalists came from England. In 2006 Arsenal reached the final and 2005 saw two English clubs in the semifinal. There's been an English club in the last 4 CL finals. In the last 4 years, nine of the possible 16 semifinalists have come from England. That's pretty much what I call domination. With Manchester City getting all that money, a lot of that will probably spill over to other clubs in the EPL so I doubt the league will get any weaker.

    But then again, if Bayern Munich get Landon Donovan.... :cool:
     
  20. Alex_K

    Alex_K Member+

    Mar 23, 2002
    Braunschweig, Germany
    Club:
    Eintracht Braunschweig
    Nat'l Team:
    Bhutan
    #20 Alex_K, Sep 19, 2008
    I have more money than Borussia Dortmund - that's not much of an achievement these days.
     
  21. 96Squig

    96Squig Member

    Feb 4, 2004
    Hanover
    Club:
    Hannover 96
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    #21 96Squig, Sep 19, 2008
    What Sportboy wrote. You can speak of domination, because the 4 big EPL clubs did, if you look at the last 4 years, better in the quarterfinals than those teams as a whole, albeit being less. And it is unfair, especially to non-EPL-fans, to speak only of the champion when it comes to domination. It is boring for the average Bundesliga fan that no team made it to the semis in a big timespan now. That is boring for the average Bundesliga fan. And, looking at how many Spanish and Italian teams made it to the semis, it doesn't get much better.English dominance. Only by accepting that as a fact and seeing even the Spanish or Italian team amking it to the semis as an underdog does the average fan (who is not fan of that team but of the league that team comes from) get escitement... Rendering the CL boring (to the average Dutch, German, French and Portugese fan at least, who don't give a rat's a#s about the EPL)
     
  22. 96Squig

    96Squig Member

    Feb 4, 2004
    Hanover
    Club:
    Hannover 96
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    #22 96Squig, Sep 19, 2008
  23. evangel

    evangel Member+

    Apr 12, 2007
    #23 evangel, Sep 19, 2008
    It does shows that the EPL has more powerful teams than any other single country. But by saying the EPL will dominate the CL, you have to compare the big 4 to all those countries put together. Dominance would be constantly beating them all those teams, for many years. I'd include Juventus as a top team as well, since they were in Serie B in the season those lists are measuring.

    The teams lower down on the list are often capable of causing upsets as well. The EPL teams aren't dominant enough that they can all become confident in reaching the semifinals, especially in that difficult home and away format. No team can be that confident. Again, the results of the CL, constantly a mixture of suprising results and closely fought battles, haven't changed much in the past 15 years.

    If Chelsea or Man Utd were eliminated in the Round of 16, I really wouldn't find it suprising, regardless of who they were facing. There isn't anything telling me to expect EPL dominated semifinals from now on. I don't think anyone should expect that either. Just look at Villarreal. They have an extremely low budget compared to these teams, and would rank about far below these lists. But would it really be that surprising to see them defeat a big 4 team?
     
  24. Clinical Striker redded

    Clinical Striker redded Red Card

    Jun 2, 2007
    #24 Clinical Striker redded, Sep 20, 2008
    Yes of course. What a load of horse shit. The likes of Keane, Reira, Nasri, Silverstre ect are of little interest to Lyon, Roma and Valencia because they have better players on their team. Werder is not near the same league of those clubs, as Arsenal and Liverpool are in no way better than them. hell Fiorentina & Atletico are better than Liverpool and that kids team Arsenal on paper. The only English team that can make the last 4 this season is Chelsea and that is a big question mark if they draw a team like Inter earlier they most probably will get out of the cup. The likes of Arsenal, Man Utd and Liverpool who only bucker have little chance of making it there this time around. Bayern and Juve back, Inter strengthen and with a mission, Real M hungry, Barca still on paper much better than them ect. No they have no chance of domination.
     
  25. blanc

    blanc Member

    Jan 13, 2006
    Los Galácticos
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    #25 blanc, Sep 21, 2008
    Who remembers semi finalists inafew years?

    I would take (winner in bold): AC Milan, Manchester United, Chelsea, Liverpool anyday.

    Assuming the EPL domination that is predicted to happen, does not, and simply fades out (and obviously this is possible, using the same examples some used above), the only thing people will rememember about 06/07 is that AC Milan smoked Liverpool in the final, as well as Manchester United in the semis.

    No one will be like 'English football has GREAT DEPTH because THREE ENGLISH TEAMS were in the SEMI FINALS!!?##@#1'.

    Because ultimately, only the champion is remembered. And that is how it is supposed to be.

    PS. And yes, since La Liga teams dominate the UEFA Cup currently, I confidently say that La Liga is the strongest in depth! But no, don't use that argument in for CL plzthx :p ;)
     
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