MLS is nowhere near reaching Liga MX levels. MLS fans overestimate the quality on the field when the league really is only slightly better than Trinidad or Jamaica's leagues and about on par with El Salvador or Guatemala. You're right, the only "improvements" the league made last 10 years is stadiums, academies, training grounds, expansion, more attendance, higher paid overrated players, and more professional looking crests instead of cartoonish ones from the 1990's. MLS's quality on the field hasn't improved in over 10 years and I'd say the league is actually worse than 2008. American players are not improving and the weak domestic links drag the league down despite having higher quality DP signings that are not retirement age stars looking for easy pay.
Also why isn't the poll 100% in favor of "Yes"? MLS will NEVER win this and certainly not with the CanPL coming aboard.
MLS slightly better than Jamaica and TnT? Lol. Come on, don't make your hate so obvious. MLS problem is its calendar. By the time the CCL finishes, the MLS regular season will be 1 month in while everyone else will be finishing up or finished up with their leagues. The MLS teams are out of form and on pre season, thats their main problem. But to be fair it is MLS that refuses to change its calendar to be on par with everyone else. That is why we will never see MLS teams dominate or give Liga MX competition like Costa Rica has done before. Just look at how they did in this round.
Colorado was equally likely to be drawn against a LMX club (4 in 8) and an MLS club (3 in 8 from USA and 1 in 8 as Toronto). If USA falls to two clubs in each pot, the MLS clubs in the bottom pot will be more likely to be drawn against a LMX club, but that's unlikely. The top three coefficient spots not from LMX or MLS (assuming Canada's spot remains in the top pot) are Saprissa, Herediano, and Motagua. Two of them lost at home. Herediano got a draw at home. For next season, Saprissa's spot will lose 5 more points from 2012-2013 dropping out than Colorado's will.
Yes, it's unlikely, particularly for next year considering the current situation, but my earlier "more likely" statement was simply that it's more likely to have two MLS teams in the lower half than it is for a single LMX team to fall into the lower half. It's most likely that the top half will be a 4/4 split than either 4/3/1 situation, but 4/3/1 at MLS' expense is more likely than a 4/3/1 at LMX's expense.
My take on MLS is that they are trying to grow and become a bigger "Major League" in the US than a world top league. The way it's currently structured, I don't see how they can become a world top league, not because I think they can't do it but because I think the league is holding itself back. They would need to relax the number of Internationals restrictions, salary cap and change some of their practices to attract foreign youth players into their system (which flies under the radar here). They have the money to get more top talent, and become the "EPL" of CONCACAF while I view Liga MX as "La Liga" of the region. MLS could easily do that but that would hurt the development of American players. At least the English system have very strong lower tier like the Championship and League 1 for English players to develop and also, a strong youth system. USSF is a mess below MLS so going that route would be risky for the USSF. As long as USSF-MLS maintains the status quo, they aren't winning the CCL. They might spend more and improve but I can't see such improvement to be massive to the point of being a world top league. It just feels like MLS-USSF don't know what they want to become or more accurately, there are conflicting goals and not everyone's on the same page. MLS has helped made other CONCACAF nations stronger, not the USMNT.
Again, that was not a stuttering Pachuca side. That was a Pachuca side that went out and beat Tigres UAN for the title. Color it any way you want, but Pachuca were good enough to be champs. MLS fans in general might have been satisfied , but not FC Dallas fans.
MLS is actually holding itself back. It will likely stay that way until they are done expanding to 28 teams. You won't actually see MLS begin to close the gap between them and Liga MX, until the league is fully expanded, and every MLS team has an academy and true reserve teams. FC Dallas has a strong academy , but no reserve team, and this is common in MLS. That time when MLS actually begins to catch up, could still be a long ways away.
I think the league is too greedy to stop expanding. As long as cities and billionaires will want in the league, they'll keep expanding. In another forum, we joke how MLS is more likely to replicate MLB (2 leagues with a "World Serie") than stop accepting expansion money or pro/rel. Sorry to say that but the more the league expands, the slower it will improve. Sure MLS can improve but by closing the gap you're assuming that Liga MX won't improve and remain stale which is not what's going on. They are improving as well as they were already capable of competing in Copa Libertadores. It's more likely that other leagues in the region close the gap with MLS than MLS catching Liga MX.
I'm really sure what you mean by "pretend it was 2007" Fair enough - I'm not sure what EUFA Fair play has to do with MLS so I'm sure some of the posts in that thread were amusing.
Obviously that was a carefully selected group though you missed the point - Liga Mx doesn't take in all the big named older players after the leave MLS and MLS hasn't signed all Mexico's current national team players. That is less and less the case. Atlanta's got the one of the biggest budget's in the league. What portion is going to overpaying stars? Even Toronto,where one can fairly argue the Altidore and Bradley are getting more than they are worth, how much are they overpaid and how much of this represents Toronto's total wages? Also what about the large number of players that come to play for significantly less pay than they would elsewhere? Laurent Ciman was on the the Belgian National team but came to MLS for much less than offered elsewhere. Many of the domestic players are underpaid. Orlando was paying Larin an order of Magnitude less than in Europe. Pool is stronger and deeper than ever albeit, with one important exception - forward. Big part of the problem is that US coaches have stuck with the old guard for too long. If you look at some objective number like whoscored, or Audi index, there were about 10 better performing US keepers than him, yet he was in the nets in qualifiers giving up goals other US keepers probably would not. Another factor is that MLS has helped the rest of CONCADAF. Mexico was dysfunctional the prior cycle, but that only mattered because MLS helped improve other teams in the region to the point where they could take advantage of it. Mexico was supposed to be in its golden generation after the youth teams had done so well, instead Azteca is no longer a fortress and they fail to get results.[/QUOTE]
Interesting interpretation. I'm sure the German's would be amused by your ignorance. Their top end academy's and especially their national team programs, have more university (Gymnasium - since I'm sure you don't have a clue) tracked players than the general population in Germany. How I don't seem to read articles with European players talking about how Liga Mx is growing, how they all are interested in Liga MX and how Liga Mx will be one of the top leagues in the world. Now in fairness, maybe because these articles are all in Spanish so it just never shows up in articles I read.
Giovinco is overpaid. He came here because he also knew that was money he'd never get in Europe. The 3 DP account for around 80% of the overall salary last time I checked (granted a while ago) That's why I laugh off the "budget" argument
He chose Montreal because of our healthcare that covered special treatments for his kid. Another reason why I laugh off people saying that no one will ever choose Canada for CPL.
Nothing to brag about. That pretty much reinforce in the minds of foreign youth players to go to Europe or soccer markets ahead of MLS
The above is MLS based which has a pretty good track record of getting things done while Project 2010 was the USSF which is absolutely clueless about youth development. If Mexico does have an Ace in the hole, it is the USSF youth technical team. Back when that article was written there was a conversation in "You be the don" which which many MLS fans argued this was patently absurd by any definition of top league (based on play of its best team, its average team, or typical game). As it turns out both skeptics and optimists are surprised by how much the league has advanced in 5 years. If Mexico should be concerned, it is that MLS owners will take matters into their own hands and get people with a clue involved in US Youth programs.
I'm it was one of the reasons he was really upset when he got traded. Fortunately, I think he'll find there are some pretty good programs in LA. You've been laying down some pretty solid responses to most CPL skeptics, I hope it succeeds, but CSA historically has had all the ineptness of the USSF and then some. Given that MLS and Europe are going to hoover most of the promising Canadian talent, I don't see how it will get much above the USL level - and from my standpoint even that is not a given.
I would call it a fact rather than something to brag about. Nor do I believe it is helping the league. But if one is going to argue that MLS wages don't reflect value because a few top end players are overpaid, then it is fair to point out that the vast majority of the domestic players are are underpaid. What some of the Mexican fans don't realize is that the Bundesliga, which is much better than LigaMx, has become very interested in US players. Germany has one of the best youth development programs in Europe and have found American kids to be a good fit. Schalke, I think just added their fourth. The way MLS has treated their US based players certainly has not discouraged this trend. In this case probably bad for MLS, but good for US national team.
I think this was once the case but the USL has stabilized quite a bit.in the past few years. You have a number of solid franchises. Take Rio Grande Valley. They have a nice new stadium. Unlike Sacramento or Cincinnati, one can't argue its only because they hope to be in MLS one day. The same factors that lead you to believe the CPL can be a success are helping the USL.
Ottawa Fury are a USL Team. They were shocked at CPL budgets. From what we know already, CPL will be way above USL from the get go, the goal is above NASL on day 1. Sure Europe will get the best of the best Canadians, I doubt MLS teams outside the 3 Canadian clubs are that interested in Canadians which has been well documented to the frustration of many fans here. So sure the 3 MLS teams can get the establish guys and bench them most of the time, but CPL will develop the new guys and next generation so they have a platform to get them overseas and get our National Team that much stronger. CPL aims to be the Ligue 1 of CONCACAF.
I think there's space for an in between League for MLS and USL. With the fall of NASL and MLS refusal to occupy the tier 2 of the US pyramid is to the detriment of the program. USL might be stabilizing but we're years away from it being a true D2 league outside than by name. I like how in England, and the most of Europe how strong their D2 are. That's what's missing in the USSF pyramid in my opinion
1) Ottawa wasn't exactly a top USL team. 2) If the league is gong to have a lot of Canadian content, which from my understanding it will, then you are going to have a pretty be talent gap between the Canadian players and foreign players iif it is significantly better than the USL - especially considering the 3 MLS teams will have their Canadian players in the USL not the CPL from what you state. 3) The USL appears to be setting itself to build a 3rd tier. Would not be surprised to see them create two regional 3rd tier league and move the top teams into a second tier so I think the bar in the future will be higher than the bar in the present. BTW - Seems more like a conversation for CPL/MLS thread not this one as CPL will have virtually zero to do with MLS and concacaf in the next 5 years.
They were an NASL club before joining USL. They aren't a bottom or mid USL team either. How long do you think those MLS teams will be able to hold on to those Canadians sent to USL or condemned to MLS benchs? There were no choices but with CPL, they have a choice. By disparity, you mean the kind we're witnessing within MLS? That point is subjective as it depends where both leagues gets their internationals from. You could tell that guys like Giovinco, Villa and Pirlo were so frustrated at time with the way domestics played. CPL are unlikely to overpay for superstars past their primes but that point your raise isn't exclusive to CPL. Despite the USSF slapping a Tier 2 sticker on USL, it's still a D3 league as the changes haven't been significant enough to make people believe they've become D2 overnight. I applaud USL efforts to climb to true D2 by reforming their league and mainly establishing new standards and getting rid of MLS B teams. Until that happens, they are still D3. CPL said no from the beginning to MLS B teams. Not a given that they would be allowed in CPL II either as the tier 2 would try to emulate English Championship with pro/rel. USL is really being overrated by some fans. CPL will face the MLS Canadian teams in the Canadian Championship as early as 2019. The winner goes to CONCACAF Champions League while the CSA is going after a 2nd spot to be awarded to CPL Champions...so that's not entirely accurate
I don't see guys like Jackson-Hamel or Edwards going to CPL even if paid more in CPL unless they figured their MLS careers were done. If CPL became a challenge salary wise (again unlikely) MLS will just pay market rate similarly to way kids with LigaMx options get paid more. Big difference is LigaMx is path to good wages whereas CPL will not. If MLS is just gaining credibility in transfer markets, how long will it take CPL. I love the optimism, but I don't see it. Very different - Pirlo may have been frustrated by the style of play (more athletic, less technical), but the reality is it was beyond him and he couldn't keep up. There is also a big difference between a player like Messi that is able to do things his teammates cannot, than bottom level players that can't keep up with their teammates. If you have Canadian national team players like Crepeau or Aleman playing in USL, how are you going to fill up 8 teams with higher quality players? Not sure how Cinci or Sac Repulblic are considered D3 while NASL was ever considered D2 by that argument. Basically Championship is D2 but is better than most D1 leagues in the world. D2 just simply means the second strongest league in the country. Calling CPL D1 won't mean it is better the USL D-whatever. Few teams in Concacaf outside of Mexico are at whatever level you want call USL. So just because La Liga 2 allows B teams that doesn't make them second division even though the level of play is arguably the same as LigaMx? What makes something a second division in your eyes? Seems level of play, fan support, pay are less important than somethings else. Seems to me if they wanted to be known for development they'd follow Spain before they'd follow England.
All depends if they starts. Jackson-Hamel expressed his frustration at not starting despite being far more productive than Mancosu. Edwards didn't start often this year and didn't play the MLS Cup. If you think they would just be happy to be on the bench just because it's MLS, think again. I think there was a Canadian player in Vancouver who got to Ascendo MX as he wasn't used that much. Players wants to play and opportunities. I'm talking starters here. Giving opportunities to our younger guys, that's why the CPL is there, to do just that. We have our own D3 league in L1O and PLSQ. Also, the number of Internationals is projected to reflect the current state of the pool which could be as high as 8-10. Crepeau is capable of playing in MLS but doesn't have the opportunity. There's lots more players like him. Here we go again. You must be joking... Why are so many people believing USL to be one of the strongest league in CONCACAF? I've seen enough TFC II games to see that although there are some good teams, it's far from being consistent across the board. USL isn't there yet and won't be for a while. CPL will operate at beyond USL with all that implies. USL was D3 until the USSF gave them the D2 title alongside NASL. I didn't notice enough drastic changes in USL to believe that it became D2 overnight. If anything, NASL clubs joining it helps a lot but will they maintain their NASL level of spending... Not saying that USL won't be a great D2 league but it isn't as of today. They want to occupy Tier 3 as well. CPL commisionner confirmed that 18 cities are interested into CPL. The goal is to start CPL II after 16. There's a demand for soccer, hence the league going as low as D3. The league doesn't like B teams in its system. It believe in having clubs coast to coast across 3 divisions just like England and France. Actually, I should say that the league's end goal is to do what France is doing. Pushing talents through the tier until they reach Tier I and provides them with the environment to develop and continue their career in higher leagues. Ligue 1 is weaker than but France is way stronger than England. CPL is seeking to be a top CONCACAF league that will produce higher quality for the CANMNT.