From Jeffrey Goldberg of The Atlantic: Why Do African-Americans Forgive So Easily? Obviously, black people aren't so forgiving as to actually vote for Republicans in any significant way, but they are pretty forgiving nonetheless, when you consider the way southern Republicans talk about the antebellum South. Barbour has been neck-deep in this issue for some time. Earlier this year, a controversy erupted over the commemoration of "Confederate History Month" by Barbour's fellow Republican, Virginia governor Bob McDonnell. McDonnell, in his proclamation, did not even mention that small detail of life in the old South known as slavery, and Barbour was asked on CNN if McDonnell was right to leave slavery unmentioned. Barbour said there was no need to mention slavery because everybody knows slavery was a bad thing, and he accused McDonnell's critics of making "a big deal out of something that doesn't amount to diddly."
Everybody knows that killing Jews is bad, so I don't know why anyone would make a big deal about Third Reich Heritage Week.
Everybody knows that mosques are bad, so I don't know why anybody would make a big deal about... Wait, I'm confused.
Bad analogy. The Nazis only ruled in Germany for a dozen years, so Naziism was never ingrained in German culture like slavery was in the South. I'm not saying the general point of that article is wrong. It's amazing to me that a region of the country that engaged in human trafficking and treason is allowed to celebrate that. But the comparisn to Nazi Germany isn't very compelling to me.
I realized it wasn't a great analogy--hell, anytime you go all-in and Godwin the thread with your very first post on the first page, you're not trying very hard. BUT...I was (in a pretty snarky fashion) making the point that "Confederate" does not equal "Southern." There was a South, with a unique history and culture before and after the Civil War. Celebrating Confederate History is really celebrating a very specific moment in history and a pretty specific ideology and political and cultural agenda; and that's something that's worth holding people's feet to the fire for, IMHO.
Especially since said Confederacy got its ass kicked. **************. EDIT. ********. I can't say "**************"? Shit on that. So let's try, "pusillanimous and vagina-like losers."
Exactly. Well, not exactly, but very close. My Southernness is because of the slave trade (duh, otherwise, I'd be either still an African or my ancestors or I would have come to the USA or someplace else a few generations later), but it's still separate in my mind. It's also separate in many ways from that of White people who live or lived here, in ways I cannot completely get across to someone who isn't me. Barbour's behavior isn't isolated- a lot of Whites I encounter are more wrapped up in their Confederate flag than they are in SEC football. And quite a few of them were able to convince themselves that slavery was not the biggest issue of the Civil War, so they then retrn fire with that crap when called on it. I don't know why more Black folks haven't commented on it negatively (I certainly do whenever the opportunity arises), but I will guess that a certain brand of bend-over-and-ask-nicely Christianity was imposed on slaves and recently freedmen that remains to this day. The Southern Black folks I know that practice Christianity are much more quick to ignore, forgive or misinterpret than, say, Muslims. The worst of this group IMO is the Black SD-As. They were given a faith that would make them docile and they're still docile. UNless they see you smoke a joint or drink a beer. Now that doesn't explain why a lot of these flags seem to be mounted on Redneck Rolls (Trucks with complete camo... I mean comPLETE- truck bed is camo... interior is camo... ********ing tires are sprayed camo) more often than on regular cars driven by regular people.
Hey, McDonnell apologized...sorta. He said something to the effect of..."hey it turns out there was a slavery thing going on back in the day, so big sorr there guys" Ever since McDonnell and his facist AG Ken "The Cooch" Cuccinelli got elected living in Virginia has been more fun than a barrel of monkeys.
Fun--and expensive. Here's a fun fact from the Washington Post's editorial linked above ("Ken Cuccinelli seems determined to embarrass Virginia"): What is this farce costing? To defend itself from Mr. Cuccinelli's investigation into the distribution of a $214,700 research grant, the University of Virginia has spent $350,000, with more to come, and that doesn't count the taxpayer funds Mr. Cuccinelli is devoting to this cause. I'm going to be sure to send a thank you note along with my state income tax return next Spring.
They were founded as an anti-slavery party. They splintered a lot and became more business orientated. They started to lose the black vote around the Depression and basically gave up on it with the Southern strategy.
OK, but before the Civil War, what, precisely, was unique about the history and culture? Slavery. Story, end of.
That made their economy unique (and by unique I mean similar to only 4 other economies in the history of western civilization), not their culture. Unless you're somehow arguing that the north and the south are identical other than slavery, which is ludicrous.
I think the question is: What was special about the antebellum South that the later South didn't have? What distinct "culture" are they trying to hold onto here? I just have a hard time buying the argument that "Confederate Heritage" isn't just one big excuse for shared racial angst. They tried to leave our country because they wanted to extend the dying days of a regional economy based on ownership of human beings. They failed. What exactly is there to be proud of there?
Didn't deep-fried food, NASCAR and college football come much later? I say slavery is pretty high on the "defining the old southern culture" (along with manners) scale like thrift & independence is to New Englanders
Oh, I completely agree the notion of a Confederate History month is ludicrous. That the South in general was the same as the north but it had slaves isn't true. College football is not a southern thing. Nascar and lard bombs, however, they can have.
This is the bizarre aspect of the regional party swap. For the longest time republicans were persona non grata for white southerners, now the party is deeply rooted in the region. The party has turned a complete 180 on many issues. This is true, though many of the cultural aspects were probably strongly influenced by slavery as an institution. Slavery and Jim Crow are so deeply embedded in Southern history that part of the reason I think the effects are as deeply rooted is because a full rejection of them is a full rejection of the region's history, something that I think is extremely difficult to come to grips with.
Please don't be. "White" isn't inherently "evil". It's just more prone to be so with no other cultural influences to help shape it, and coincidentally, the White South wants no other influences. The camo fetish doesn't apply to a lot of places I've lived or visited, but it does apply here. I've got my share of hunting gear and so do a lot of my relatives. But we didn't wear it to the prom or church or anything. I suspect that some of these folks do. The conservative Southern White mindset is often one of defiance in the face of inevitable progress. Those people who felt the firm, righteous pimphand (props to Mr. Warmth for the noun) of federal regulation when they refused to desegregate schools, churches, neighborhoods, and swimming pools? Well, they took on the "poor, poor pitiful me/We're a-gonna rise ag'in" mentality of their ancestors who fought against the United States. Some segments of the Black community (Sorry, MTizzle) were/are so eager to be "in the Big house", so to speak, that they forgive and then suit up for SEC football programs, throw parties at restaurants where once they could only work, and attend church with people who claim Christ but show no trace of Christlike behavior. I've already given the best reason for Black unwillingness to render swift and permanent justice for generations of dehumanization and continued worship of its greatest tool. This is a good time to point out that, collectively, oppressed people get dumb after a while. It'll be a few generations before every member can step up to the plate and judge Neo-Rebs as they ought to be judged.
Yes, and it was the radical republicans who forced the strict Reconstuction down the south's throats. By the way, on thing always gets me is the Battle of the Alamo. Those fluckers were trying to save slavery. Mexico had outlawed slavery, and those Texans (with southern USA help) foisted the war with Mexico to keep slavery alive in Texas. In fact, if Texas had banned slavery, there's a decent chance that the Civil War might have never happened. But I digress.