I guess my problem is... my supporter section has become filled with people interested in the social aspect... and not the match. None have a vested interest in supporting the club or community. They drink. And they drink. And then they cause problems.
Not in Columbus. But I think there is a (minor) problem in many supporter sections for a myriad of reasons. I did not mean to suggest that there was a PROBLEM EPIDEMIC with over consumption of alcohol by new or old supporters. It's all growing pains that come along with television and media exposure.
If a newly promoted club in Spain loses to Barcelona 6:0 and 4:0, they get 0 points. If a newly promoted club in England loses to Manchester City 3:0 and 2:1, they get 0 points. Barcelona being stronger than Manchester City and/or the Top 7 in Spain being stronger than the Top 7 in England doesn't affect the newly promoted clubs if they're not good enough to get a draw or win against any top clubs.
Well surely the strength of the top 7 matters to the newly promoted clubs. They play 14 matches against those 7 teams. They can't just throw-away 14 matches and expect to survive relegation.
They can if everyone else in the bottom 7-8 throws away the same 14 matches. Thing is, it's probably much easier for a promoted club to take points off the 11th-14th placed clubs in Spain than in England.
They're not going to be dropping all 42 of those points against the top 7, but neither are the bottom clubs in England. They can, however, drop a larger proportion of those points than English clubs and still finish with more total points, if they're getting more points against other clubs in the bottom 10-12.
This international break (early Sept, 2016) has reminded that everything that annoys me about American soccer fans originate from US Mens National team fans. Every performance has to be part of some larger arc, they can't just play well or poorly on the day against whatever small country it is this time. Every young player showing promise is the next American Messi. Every bad call is part of some CONCACAF or worldwide plot against the US. Every country's less than perfect field is looked down upon in xenophobic fashion. And every league has to exist for the sole purpose of improving the US national team, as though national teams get better due to national wide strategies. In comparison, MLS, Premier League, or Mexican league fans are better company.
You left out that all US youth leagues, high schools, and colleges exist only to develop talent for the US National Team.
I apologize in advance for dredging up an old discussion in this thread. I finally stumbled across this thread. I'm currently having the same reaction you had to that discussion on page one about this misstep in supporting country over club. Apparently, the USMNT doesn't represent the country to this person. Therefore, it is illogical to feel any connection to them. Yet somehow, it is quite logical to feel more connected to a business run by some billionaires. Club or franchise players are employees who are rightfully more concerned about their own careers and financial futures than representation of a community. Disclaimer: I'm not saying that it's wrong to support club or franchise over country. But the rationale provided in this thread against people who focus on country over club is far from convincing.
Agree with every word. And this is coming from someone who has been following the US since 1989. It's not every US fan, and I don't even believe it's a majority but a sizable minority of US fans don't seem to understands the ebbs and flows of sports let along soccer. They seem to believe that the US team has an inalienable right to improve year on year and to eventually challenge for a world cup. Instead of just enjoying the ride.
I've never felt any of these things. And this is coming from someone who has been following the US since 1975.
I support country over club because I once had a football team in red, white and blue pack up and move to Nashville Tennessee. A team that many thought, rivals included, would never move. Then I was shown the importance, certainly internationally in sports/culture, of this other football team in red, white and blue that is not moving anywhere. Ever. Thus, any man, woman or child can indeed place a tremendous amount of devotion to such a team. For as long as their nation is around, there is an opportunity to go to a live football game and have a shout, some fun.
The Pro/Rel people are only worse than the Eurosnobs if they refuse to attend / watch games in US leagues like the Eurosnobs.
England were never expected to lose at all, ever. It was our game that we gave to the world and we were the best at it. We didn't even bother to enter the first two world cups because we didn't need to. The excuse for the defeat to the USA in 1950 was that it was very far away, and no-one really cared. Then this happened. But England fans still feel that we have the inalienable right to win the World Cup and unfortunately some think if we can't do it on the pitch, we'll do it off it.
Mostly agree with this and have met some intolerable English fans (although my experience with English fans one and one has been overwhelmingly positive, it's the media, specifically in regards to the national team that does my head in). But at least English fans have a small basis to believe there team should be good. Football is the #1 sport in England by a mile and the culture goes back 150 years. In the US it's the fifth biggest spectator sport and the culture only goes back to about 1990.
So, with the seeming demise of the Cosmos and NASL, and my hometown team hosting #MSL2Cincy, I've finally figured out the group of American soccer fans that annoy me the most. It's the hipsters. Or, as I like to call them, the Cosplay Ultras. These guys...all 12 of them, typically root for NPSL teams. In case you don't know, NPSL relies heavily on college players and is, for all intents and purposes, an armature league. Now that isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it's the "supporters" of said teams that I can't stand. Let's review some of their claims in detail: MLS stifles supporter culture - As a member of a supporters group, I take real issue with this one. I know many people who have spent hours in hot warehouses to make TIFO and people who rearrange their schedules to plan tailgates, meetups, watch parties, and road trips. All while actually paying a pretty penny for season tickets. Who are these assholes to question those people's authenticity. Granted, many of these people are in Detroit and probably have never experienced a MLS game in real life, but I'd encourage them to head out to a real game just once. MLS is corporate - These guys root for what basically amounts to a wood-bat college summer league. They don't pay their players. However, the number of these people who actively tune in to watch Billionaire-owned Chelsea play Billionaire-owned Liverpool on a given weekend makes them the worst type of hypocrite. They're hipsters through and through. The worst part is, they know how to use Twitter.
Exactly....Or the say its MLS fault because they doesn't want pro/rel and that is the reason NASL and Cosmos fold not poor management of the team. All 8 of these people on twitter(and its literally the same people) are legit wack jobs and must really not have a life. If you look at how much they tweet its insanely disturbing to see the someone could have that much time. Also these Detroit hipsters are laughable. Why would you hate on a fan base for wanting MLS? I get support club over league but it makes no sense to be bitter because fans want better. All they really care about is being able to light smoke bombs, curse and act like they are from Europe while at the games.
? I'm sure I'm going to make the annoying list here, but it's worth a counter. Jack Hynes used to have a couple tailgate beers at the Meadowlands*, punch me in the arm and tell me I had to start doing push-ups to play with the big boys. Then we'd amble in to watch Johan Neeskens team up with Steve Wegerle and Andranik Eskandarian. And I'd boo them all till I was hoarse, cheering on the visiting Seattle Sounders. Then I'd ride home to my nowhere dairytown where all the best athletes played soccer, an Italian tailor was a revered ref, his son a baller on the local high school and club teams, and thousands of scarf wielding fans would make the hills echo with soccer chants at college games. Maybe 'cause there were always great, All-American players out there, ever since the 1950's anyway. My town's unoffical second sport was fooseball, with teams painted, conveniently, like the local rivals. That was just the 70's and 80's for me. And I can't speak for pockets of states and cities, pockets of history that were undiscovered or completely forgotten. But I've played at a 1950's SSS in San Francisco, read about hooligans at the Alameda Stingers games at the turn of the century, stuff that rarely gets talked about - unlike Fall River vs. Bethlehem Steel, or the St Louis connection to the 1950 team that took England's scalp, or the Boston Commons debate. Seems like it was parochial and patchy, but we have a long-standing soccer culture here. *You know, right near Kearney, New Jersey and Red Bull Arena.