Who Is The 3rd Best Brazilian Footballer in History,after Pelé and Garrincha?

Discussion in 'The Beautiful Game' started by R9magia, Nov 6, 2005.

  1. Duck Manson

    Duck Manson Member+

    Feb 8, 2005
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    its still friendlies. if they were so damn competetive all the time, pele and his teammates wouldnt be able to play more then 100 games in a season like they did back then. i think its fair to say that alot of those games were played like friendlies. wouldnt you agree?
     
  2. R9magia

    R9magia New Member

    Aug 12, 2005
    No I wouldn't agree,when you have a team that is considered to be the best in the world,and a player who is considered to be phenom and also the best in the world,nobody that plays them will take them lightly and play them "friendly" as you put it.
     
  3. Duck Manson

    Duck Manson Member+

    Feb 8, 2005
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    then how do you explain the amount of games they played back then?
     
  4. lanman

    lanman BigSoccer Supporter

    Aug 30, 2002
    Pele actually only played more than 80 games (including friendlies) in a season 3 times - 102 in 1959 and 82 in 60 and 68.
    Over 21 full seasons he averaged 65 games per year. Some of the top modern players will match that currently.

    https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=143230

    Thanks again to Gregoriak.
     
  5. Duck Manson

    Duck Manson Member+

    Feb 8, 2005
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    tell any professional player today that he has to play competetive games at this rate

    year.........games / goals
    1957 ..........073 / 065
    1958 ..........068 / 089
    1959 ..........103 / 127
    1960 ..........082 / 074
    1961 ..........075 / 111
    1962 ..........059 / 073
    1963 ..........059 / 074
    1964 ..........050 / 060
    1965 ..........074 / 105
    1966 ..........051 / 042
    1967 ..........065 / 055
    1968 ..........082 / 059
    1969 ..........078 / 068
    1970 ..........075 / 059
    1971 ..........074 / 030
    1972 ..........074 / 050
    1973 ..........067 / 053

    and he will hang up his boots immediately
     
  6. R9magia

    R9magia New Member

    Aug 12, 2005
    What are the "weird ass brasilian cups" your referring to? Taça Brasil?
    Rio-São Paulo? Campeonato Paulista? Can you elaborate? Don't forget the Brasilian league was one of the stongest in the world if not THE strongest in those days because many players played in there home countries.Some of the best players in the world played in the Brasilian league thus making it one of the most if not THE most competitive in the world in those days. So again,what are the "weird ass cups" your referring to?

    And as far as 500+ goals being in friendlies,what makes you think or say that the friendlies in those days were played like they are today specially against a team Internationally considered at one point the best in the world along with Real Madrid? Even NOW a days,when there is a massive team like Brasil or Real Madrid opponents give it there ALL friendly or not,imagine back then.

    Even if you refuse to accept that the friendlies in those days against Santos were not like friendlies you watch now a days,500 goals is 500 goals,are people supposed to say "well he did score 500 goals,but they were friendlies so they are worth about 50 goals or not worth much in my book"?

    Furthermore,even if you do want to consider the 500 goals not a big deal (which would be absurd),you still have 758 goals he scored besides friendlies.
     
  7. Duck Manson

    Duck Manson Member+

    Feb 8, 2005
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    im refering to the cups he played.
    no im not suggesting theyre worth 50 goals. im saying theyre worth nothing.
    yeah ive never said anything against the official goals he scored.
     
  8. lanman

    lanman BigSoccer Supporter

    Aug 30, 2002
    That's all games at all levels, and yes 100 games is insane but look at someone like Frank Lampard - 38 League Games, 10+ Champions League, 5+ Domestic Cups, 7+ Internationals. That's 60+ games - throw in a handful of pre-season friendlies and it's comparable to many of Pele's seasons.
    Also, when Liverpool were successful in Europe in the 70's and 80's Phil Neal was regularly playing 70+ games a year with internationals.
     
  9. R9magia

    R9magia New Member

    Aug 12, 2005
    Interesting........So what were you implying when you said "sure. like it states in that stat sheet peles total included goals in all kinda weird ass brazilian cups"?
     
  10. dante7

    dante7 New Member

    Nov 4, 2005
    bournemouth
    roberto for me too
     
  11. Duck Manson

    Duck Manson Member+

    Feb 8, 2005
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    you wouldnt survive that kind of schedule over that long a period. unless some were friendlies. which you guys try and deny they were because santos were so great. its bulls***.
     
  12. Duck Manson

    Duck Manson Member+

    Feb 8, 2005
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    i was implying that they played all kinda weird ass brazilian cups.
     
  13. R9magia

    R9magia New Member

    Aug 12, 2005
    Nice job trying to put a spin on this.

    When Lanman provided the info that showed he still is comfortably the scoring leader with 758 goals in official games,you said:

    "sure. like it states in that stat sheet peles total included goals in all kinda weird ass brazilian cups"

    Clearly your implying that in some way these cups were weak or inferior to other cup.Why else would you even say anything about the stat sheet not including "goals in all kinda weird ass brazilian cups"? Why wouldn't you question the stat sheet for not including goals in the Libertadores or Intercontinental cups? You know what you meant by this but you probably didn't realize the Brasilian league was one of the strongest in the world in those days.
     
  14. girco

    girco New Member

    Jul 3, 2005
    São Paulo
    You're not talking about any professional player, you're talking about Pelé
    You should try and get some knowledge on football history
    Back in those days, clubs played a lot more matched than today simply because they had to in order to survive
    There was no TV nor all the marketing and money behind it
    And players had to play a lot of matches in order to make money - there was no astronomical sized salaries as we are used to see nowadays
     
  15. girco

    girco New Member

    Jul 3, 2005
    São Paulo
    Just because you know sh1t about football in Brasil, that doesn't make them "weird" :rolleyes:
     
  16. R9magia

    R9magia New Member

    Aug 12, 2005
    At the moment closing in on 100 votes (90) the BigSoccer Top 5 Brasilian footballers of all-time list Is:

    1) Pelé

    2) Garrincha

    3) Ronaldo

    4) Zico

    5) Romário
     
  17. ChaChaFut

    ChaChaFut Member

    Jun 30, 2005
    Is understandable since I'm sure a lot of those 100 voters have not witnessed Romário's entire career.
     
  18. R9magia

    R9magia New Member

    Aug 12, 2005
    Well personally I rate Ronaldo higher then Romário myself although I wouldn't put Ronaldo at 3 all-time just yet.
     
  19. ChaChaFut

    ChaChaFut Member

    Jun 30, 2005
    :confused: So who did you vote for?
     
  20. R9magia

    R9magia New Member

    Aug 12, 2005

    Arthur Antunes Coimbra :D

    [​IMG]
    ZICO
     
  21. GRBomber

    GRBomber Member

    Sep 12, 2005
    Brasília - Brazil
    Club:
    Sao Paulo FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    I've never seen a better striker than Romario. But I don't know if he is top 3.
    The competition is too tough...
     
  22. Godinho10

    Godinho10 BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Aug 19, 2005
    Yea magia9 where is ronaldinho? haha! :rolleyes:
     
  23. Godinho10

    Godinho10 BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Aug 19, 2005
    Boy you must be the only brazilian who doesnt like Ronaldinho.How come? :confused: Madrid fan or something?
     
  24. R9magia

    R9magia New Member

    Aug 12, 2005
    Ronaldinho is 25 and by the end of his career will surely be among the greatest ever. I could only choose 16 players for the list and Ronaldinho just wasn't one of them at this point. Many other players on the list proved themselves for years,I think it would have been unfair to put Ronaldinho in there and take away a player that was consistently great throughout his whole career.

    As for your question am I a Madrid fan.I love football and watch all teams,however my team is Cruzeiro Esporte Clube and nobody else.
     
  25. glennaldo_sf

    glennaldo_sf Member+

    Houston Dynamo, Penang FC, Al Duhail
    United States
    Nov 25, 2004
    Doha, Qatar
    Club:
    FL Fart Vang Hedmark
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What?!!! No Roque Junior? :eek:
     

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