Who Belongs on the USMNT

We had Donovan and Dempsey. Deuce alone saved Klinsmann, take his goals (he created for the most part) out, and Klinsmann is gone by the end of 2012.

Donovan is one of the most intelligent men to play the game. He could make a bunch of good-for-nothings look like contenders. I hope Pulisic can do that some day, but I don't think it's going to happen.

 

Casey, Wondo, Eddie, Shea & Jozy Altidore are some of the players who looked a lot better with him on the field.

 

Donovan definitely was the type of player that made others better. He was not the type of player that can carry a team. (We have never had a player like that...maybe Pulisic will be that player maybe not.)

 

Sweet, but you didn't refute my point. In fact, you reinforced it. We've never had really strong teams that didn't have obvious, crippling weak points. Which is why we're not going around, challenging for World Cups every cycle.

In 2014, it was lack of depth, speed, and quality forwards. In 2010, lack of strikers, and slow defenders. In 2006, old team in the spine, lack of depth and strikers. In 2002, we were perhaps a bit too young, didn't have the composure in front of goal to overcome Kahn and a Frings handball. By the time we get to 1998, my knowledge rapidly declines, but I imagine we just weren't particularly good.

 

Four years is a while. Things could stay the same. Or the Euro prospect group we currently have could turn out better than usual. Or we might discover a gem in the college game. Or other countries might hit a talent ebb or experience bad luck of their own.

Plus, we were pretty close to qualifying despite a poor hex run. Any other keeper besides Howard against T&T and we're probably in. If I had to bet it would be on the next hex going relatively smoothly.

 

did pulisic give 100%? Anyone you ask says YES, so it's not that subjective. You can easily spot players who do their best

 

Doing your best and giving 100% are two very different things

 

only if you want them to be

 

this is amazing I think this joke should keep going.

wanting to win more then anything and doing anything to win are different things.

 

so, which one applied to pulisic?

 

No you can give everything you have and still not play your best game.

 

ok

 

My first post on these forums. I'm not American, rather an Englishman of Scottish and Irish descent who also supports the German national team (odd eh), but I "follow" the USA team and supported them somewhat until August 2013 (as for why, read on).

I think all citizens of a country (and some non-citizens of some countries, though not the USA - see below) should be equally eligible to play for that country. However, I don't think all citizens are equally "from" the country, or should want to, or (especially) be recruited to, play for the country.

I'm not at all a fan of AJ (I won't call him Johannsson because it's a patronymic and Americans, or at least US citizens by birth, should have proper surnames, i.e. Gislason in his case, though for his father it was a patronymic) playing for the USA at all, because:
(a) his US citizenship is a technicality (he would not get UK or German citizenship simply by being born there - indeed his German-born daughter is not a citizen of that country, nor indeed of the USA because he didn't live there long enough and his partner is not a US citizen, only Iceland)
(b) Iceland still wanted him and were still picking him for squads, even if not using him to his satisfaction
(c) he was blatantly recruited and had shown no interest in playing for the US until Klinsmann called him up
(d) and most importantly, not only is it entirely wrong that he was blatantly recruited, but it is even more so that he was able to switch at the drop of a hat with no quarantine period, which should have been at least a year (maybe two since Iceland didn't want to let him go). He should have become eligible for the USA only after the World Cup (and Green not until May-June 2015), which may have stopped him switching (Green still would have I'd guess).

As well as enforcing the quarantine period (1 (maybe 2 for AJ) year from filing the switch or 2 years since the last accepted call-up, whichever is the earlier, so Johnson et al could have switched straight away), I think a new rule should be introduced so that anyone is eligible for their country of birth, with or without citizenship, such as Joselu for Germany (though I wouldn't want him in the team as he isn't good enough as an irregular starter for Newcastle).
(P.S. Since Germans also have surnames (as opposed to nicknames, not patronymics, in this case), Joselu should have Sanmartin on the back of his shirt if he plays for them. Cacau should have had Barreto, but since he was a naturalized citizen not born in Germany, a nickname was OK.)

I would be entirely against recruiting Sabanadzovic (I think he's a patriotic Bosnian though), and I don't look forward to a L.Pirlo-T.Pirlo-Schweinsteiger junior midfield in the 2042 World Cup (supposing Ana has her and Bastian's kid in the US and it's a boy).

I have no problem whatsoever with the German-Americans, all of whom would qualify for German citizenship had they been born and raised in the USA (I know Green was born but not raised there), though Green should, like AJ, have had to serve a year of quarantine after filing the switch. The others had not played for Germany at any level for 2 years so an immediate switch was justified. Also, it's safe to say many of them, especially Johnson and Williams (whose parents stayed together), Brooks and Green (who remained close to their fathers) (and, surprisingly IMHO, Boyd, who is still estranged from his father and I believe intends to remain so) identify as American outside of football and always have done, while I believe AJ is the player Landon called out as not doing so (though it must be said he is the most "American" culturally of the "technically eligible" players, he does love the USA and has always visited regularly even if he doesn't identify as American. Sabanadzovic makes AJ seem like Dempsey as to how "American" culturally they are).
I also have no problems with the likes of Diskerud (though I don't approve of him being asked if he had a US passport while taking a corner for Norway's youth team), Desevio Payne etc playing for the USA either, or the US-born-and-raised Maars Johnsen and Hamalainen playing for their fathers' countries.

(I wouldn't have a problem with Sabanadzovic playing for Montenegro, since his father was born there when it was part of Yugoslavia, or Schweini junior playing for his mother's country of Serbia.)

(I used to have opposition to Owen Hargreaves playing for England, but that was more because (a) Canada is so much worse than England at football that nobody born and raised in Canada should be good enough to play for England, I'm not even sure any US field player, England eligible or not, has ever been England first choice quality and the US are a lot better than Canada and (b) I don't think German clubs' academies should want to develop players for the England national team (or vice versa, or similarly with other big countries such as Spain, France etc). However, I have always considered him English outside of football. I don't consider AJ as equally "American" (except legally) as the German-Americans, and the likes of Sabanadzovic not at all.)

I have no problem with naturalized citizens such as Dwyer playing for the USA, as long as the team doesn't become like the chess team, where not one of the 12 best "American" female chess players at a recent championship were born in the USA and one year in the 1990s the USA became world team champion with a team of ex-Soviets and one born American.

I don't like the restriction of the switching rule to people who had the "new" nationality at the time they played for the "old" country, I'd think Jack Harrison, for example, should have been eligible to play for the USA once he got citizenship despite playing for England U21 before doing so if he hadn't played for England (a) for 2 years and (b) since getting US citizenship. (Jack won't get citizenship now, so I guess it's moot.)
I mean, it seems illogical that Sabanadzovic, who has decided he is Bosnian (football wise) while eligible for the USA, can (potentially) suddenly decide he is American at the drop of a hat, while someone like Ibisevic, had he stayed in St Louis with his family, if he chose to play for Bosnia while waiting for US citizenship, would forever be only Bosnian football wise, despite there being a set moment when he became American (and I mean American, not just a US citizen like Sabanadzovic).
(Yes I understand the point of the rule and don't fully disagree - someone like Arteta who moved to England with a pro contract shouldn't be eligible, which would also have ruled out Almunia (correctly IMHO) even though he had no Spain youth caps, and Andrew Driver for the USA had he stayed with Houston - but for me, a Brazilian who has actually lived in Qatar for 5 years is more Qatari than a Bosnian who has lived 1 year in Missouri and the last 18 in Sarajevo is American. The Kenyan runners who run for Qatar don't live in Qatar, so they shouldn't be eligible IMHO.)

ETA: I wouldn't have liked Pulisic playing for Croatia, since he wouldn't have US citizenship if he was a Croatian whose only connection to the USA was a grandfather.

 

So you have a problem with Aron Johannsson, who was born in Alabama and lived there until he was 3 but you have no problem with Timmy Chandler who never stepped foot in America until deciding to play for the NT.

 

I'm not sure really, I'd rather neither were on the team tbh, and yes, AJ (I won't call him Johannsson because Americans have surnames, not patronymics) is most likely more "American" culturally than Chandler. But yes, AJ would not have UK or German citizenship (or that of most other countries outside the Americas) had he been born there, but Chandler would have UK citizenship had his largely absent father been English, or German had he been born and raised in the USA.

My main issue with AJ is that he was blatantly recruited away from a team that did have use for him, even if mainly as a sub, and even more so that he didn't have to serve a "quarantine" period before switching (which would have kept him out of the World Cup but allowed him to play for the USA afterwards). By contrast, Germany had no use for Chandler, or indeed for the other German-born players (including the US-born but German-raised Green) (maybe Johnson as a sub). (While I consider Green to be "American" in reality, not just technically, he should have had to serve a year of quarantine too.) The USA is too big to recruit except from large countries like Germany, even Croatia is probably too small (imagine Kovacic being born in the USA (but moving to Croatia or his actual residence of Austria aged 1) and not seeing an opportunity to get into the CRO team over Modric and Rakitic), and Iceland is too small to have its players actively poached, though thankfully they didn't need him.

I think the rules for switching need tightening, including a quarantine period of at least one year after filing the switch or two after the last accepted call-up at any level, but also loosening, in the sense that Diego Fagundez should be allowed to switch after gaining citizenship and 2 years after his last Uruguay cap at any level. He is undoubtedly American "in reality".

I hope there are no more AJs, i.e. Sabanadzovic sticks to Bosnia. (I'm sure he will.) But even more so, I wish that people would not search out for people who "in reality" are foreigners but technically have citizenship, like Sabanadzovic. (If Asmir Begovic can call Zlatan a traitor when he was not only born but raised in Sweden, then what would he call Sabanadzovic? I can't believe Icelanders really advised AJ to play for the USA.)

I don't really want too many Chandlers either, tbh, but those like Desevio Payne, who grew up with their American father in their house, or even those who remained close to their American parent after the divorce, I don't mind at all, like Stewart in the 1994 team. I also don't mind naturalized players, it's not as if the team will be 10 Russians and one born American, it's not chess.

Also, I think Americans should realise AJ was poached and would probably not have played for the USA otherwise.

 

he made the us WC squad in 2014 its not like the us recruited him cap tied him and then threw him away. Kid has been hurt for the last two years thats why he isn't part of the squad.

I didn't read much of ur post though because I have an issue with bandwagon fans. an english dude who likes man city and somehow likes germany lol and you are arguing about people playing for their nationality. how about you cheer for your nationality or where you grew up or whatever crap ur arguing.

 

The point is that AJ's primary nationality isn't American (as evidenced by him giving his daughter a patronymic Aronsdottir rather than a surname Johannsson or his father's Gislason) and he was recruited, and yes, he does qualify on the technicality that the USA still has unconditional birthright citizenship. Joselu (or Jose Luis Sanmartin) should be eligible for Germany, after all he was born there.

As for me being a bandwagon fan, I've supported Man City since 1996, when Alan Ball took them down to the Championship (then the First Division). Yes, Oasis had a lot to do with that, but they're quality, it's not like people liking Doncaster because of Louis from "Wand Erection". As for Germany, I liked them when they were (comparatively) rubbish in the early 00s, and I also supported the USA, certainly against Germany, until AJ was recruited, and they were not exactly world beaters.

I never actually said the USA threw AJ away, tbh.

 

Holy moly batman! How can one post have so many wrong opinions?

Any American citizen should have the opportunity to play for their country. Whether or not the are extended the opportunity or take another one is secondary.

A citizen litmus test is both wrong and stupid. Oh, if you stay close with your parent, you can stay? Whew! What if your Dad is American, but you hate him and think he's a scumbag? What if your mother is American, but you don't call her every week? What if you hate burgers, hot dogs, and Rocky IV? What if you like living somewhere else in the world?

OR, bear with me here, maybe we just let whomever can play for us, play for us? IF they're a locker room problem, cut them. If the US doesn't produce enough "Real Americansᵀᴹ", we'll still be the USMNT regardless of how many players a random Englishman decides don't "count".

 

I do think all eligible citizens of a country should be allowed to play for the country. What I doubt is whether they should want to, and certainly whether they should be recruited to. For me, AJ should 100% be eligible, but <10% want to (unless Iceland didn't want him), and <1% be recruited to.

I have an issue with players who qualify by the technicality of the USA having birthright citizenship but other countries, in particular the UK and Germany, not doing so. If Hangeland is American "in reality", so are Dempsey's kids English "in reality". As I said, anyone should be eligible for the country of their birth, citizen or not. If AJ should be eligible for the USA, Joselu should for Germany (their connection is the same, they were born there), and since Spain don't want him (Iceland did want AJ, even if mostly as a sub), why shouldn't he play for Germany?

The reason I said I don't want too many Chandlers either is in a response to the original reply which considered AJ as more "American" than Chandler. I doubt either truly identify as American outside of football, even though I don't doubt AJ loves the USA, so do his non-US citizen parents.

 

love that you have percentages lol, how exactly did you calculate those do you have a special formula or did you, like ur opinions, just pull it out of nowhere.

you are an english dude who jumps on bandwagons as ur 'fandom' keep ur opinion to whatever team is in first.

 

I didn't calculate those percentages. The only one that is absolute is that he should be 100% eligible. However, I don't see how a person can feel more from one country at one moment then from another later. AJ chose Iceland (when the senior team were much worse than the USA) in the late 00s, and Iceland still picked him for squads until he switched. I emphasise (yes, British spelling): he had the option of the USA then, and he chose Iceland. I bet he wishes he could switch back and play for the country of his primary nationality now, if he keeps up his recent form and stays fit, he'd make their team if he were eligible.

Nor do I jump on bandwagons. For the record, I think France probably have a better team than Germany at the moment.

 

Amazing.

An "Englishman" who has a very detailed knowledge of the ins and outs of US players.

Yet can't spell naturalised the English way....

 

they are 100% eligible this is why you make no sense. you are either eligible or you aren't...there is no half eligible lol.

what you don't see is...you did it so how can you say you don't understand how aj can do it and you did it much worse.

you are an english dude follow the sport in that country and what country do you cheer for........GERMANY. the long time rival of ur home country in that sport and in war. I mean atleast have a heart and not pick ur home countries biggest rival.

look at it this way.

say there is a guy born and raised in ohio his parents are canadian. He is yelling at the tv how can a player switch countries from his real home country from iceland to england... he was raised in iceland his parents are from iceland. how can this man claim to be english he only lived there for the first three years of his life. you his best friend ask him from ur couch in ohio...'dude what country do you support?'....he replies 'mexico' HUH that guy supporting mexico crying about the players loyalty despite having no connection to mexico is you.