Whitecaps Roster Thread

Discussion in 'Vancouver Whitecaps' started by whiteisthecolour, Mar 22, 2011.

  1. OldFan2015

    OldFan2015 Member

    Nov 29, 2015
    Club:
    Vancouver Whitecaps
    ^^In other words, they are not spending money on players to fill that DP slot; no transfer fees,and just lateral salary moves under the salary cap. That is par for the course, i wouldn't have expected any different.

    Good Game today! The boys worked hard and sometimes you get unlucky, that's football. The weather was a challenge, the travel was a challenge, I was happy with the effort. We have to move on. (Figured I would give you the carl press conference to save you the time)
     
  2. BearcatSA

    BearcatSA Member

    Jan 15, 2008
    Canada
    He and/or Weekend at Bernie's Ibini.
     
  3. hot potato

    hot potato Member+

    Feb 21, 2014
    Club:
    Vancouver Whitecaps
    mid-season questions ??

    so what has happened to juarez?? an expensive signing in the $600 000 range and yet has disappeared- methinks it has to do with discipline or a clash with the head coach-- just a guess

    robo's off-season signings- juarez, blondell, aja and the resigning of ghazal are busts IMO; the money lost on this group doesnt make the signings look very good; jury is still out with henry and mutch; kamara was a plus signing, while felipe, while not at the level of tim parker, has been quite good

    reyna is in another sphere- so erratic and immature, yet can be scintillating
     
  4. tm13

    tm13 Member

    Jan 15, 2008
    Rocky Mountains
    Bust: Juarez (Russ is better at a fraction of the cost)
    Meh: Ghazal (journeyman MLS player)
    Good: Mutch (when not injured), Blondel (Kei is not getting any younger)
    Very good: Henry, Aja, (check out the Audi Index on those 2!!!), Kamara, Felipe
     
  5. hot potato

    hot potato Member+

    Feb 21, 2014
    Club:
    Vancouver Whitecaps
    surprised you said that henry and aja are very good signings, mutch is a good signing and ghazal is satisfactory

    like in 2016 when we let beita go, we have fallen from 1 of the best defenses in 2017 (with parker at CB and ousted in goal) to one of the worst in 2018- the Caps are giving up too many goals

    these 2 players are costing MLS and us over $1 mill in salary and i think we could have done better with that money- its interesting to note that the Caps have brought in another CB on trial

    and as i predicted with mutch, he will be oft-injured- initially i thought he was a +30 year old whose body was wearing out- i would like to see him healthy for a few months, but i am not convinced that will happen

    ghazal, mutch and juarez are pulling in the $1.6 mill range- seems to me we are not getting the value for these off-season signings

    but felipe and kamara have been good signings

    if i had to pinpoint 1 player who will be released, i think it will be juarez- is there a clash with robo going on ??
     
  6. tm13

    tm13 Member

    Jan 15, 2008
    Rocky Mountains
    Small sample size of 3 games but Henry's Audi Index numbers are very good: 820, 160, 632 for an average of 537.

    MLS journeymen players usually get 200 and strong MLS players are over 400 apparently. For comparison last year Waston averaged 383 for the full season, Aja 189, Maud 350.

    I think it has more to do with Laba missing in front of the back line and Ousted behind it. Our CBs are good value.
     
  7. BearcatSA

    BearcatSA Member

    Jan 15, 2008
    Canada
    When the team was getting results in the second half of last season after Laba was injured no one was talking about missing the Argentine then. But now the team's missing him? Not buying that, sorry.
     
  8. OldFan2015

    OldFan2015 Member

    Nov 29, 2015
    Club:
    Vancouver Whitecaps
    Juarez 600k - complete bust
    Ghazal 700 k - no better than the regular guy making 200 k in the league

    5 seasons in and Carl seems to be getting worse with his signings; and we are still stuck with guys like Ibini who are not MLS level and he makes 300 grand.
     
  9. BearcatSA

    BearcatSA Member

    Jan 15, 2008
    Canada
    This is why I get frustrated with the lack-of-funds argument. The bang for buck factor isn't there with these (and other) guys. It's mindboggling that Ghazal is on that heavy a cap hit type of deal.
     
    tm13 repped this.
  10. tm13

    tm13 Member

    Jan 15, 2008
    Rocky Mountains
    After Laba was injured they returned to 2 DMs instead of 1. He made a huge difference. I just don't see CB as a weakness for us when our keepers are not as good and we have no serious 1 man DM type player. When you have that one guy who can do the DM role by himself you free up another player to get forward more.
     
  11. hot potato

    hot potato Member+

    Feb 21, 2014
    Club:
    Vancouver Whitecaps
    laba was a pitbull in DMF, but IMO the pace of MLS was leaving him behind- good in 2015 is now average in 2018- its hard to imagine how ghazal- a even slower pace than laba- is on a the team and making $700 K

    it must be very frustrating for teibert- a better DMF than ghazal- to be sitting while aly plays

    robo's list of bad signings and wasted salary is HUGE- ibini, mutch (too injury-prone), ghazal, juarez (MIA), maund, blondell, flores (does anyone know if he is still alive and where??)- those salaries alone must add up to near $3 mill and with so little return

    the july transfer window will add some fluff, but nothing to get excited about- juarez might leave somehow and another MF or defender brought in, but at no change in salary cost

    but watching davies mature makes me able to endure; and when reyna is motivated, it adds a whole new dimension to the team- but, when the playoff heat comes, yordy will disappear like he did in 2017 (its his MO)

    i still dont see how this team makes the playoffs
     
  12. BearcatSA

    BearcatSA Member

    Jan 15, 2008
    Canada
    I don't think he lost his job to Ghazal: he lost his job to Felipe, imo. He's a more versatile distributor and he's better with the ball under pressure, either turning out of trouble or drawing fouls. And for what this team wants to do with it's defensive midfield shape, having a bigger but less free ranging presence acting as a read and react/intercept shield in front of the central defence is what a fair number of successful bus parking club teams like to do. Ghazal does well in that very specific regard but his play with ball is NOWHERE CLOSE to commanding a near 3/4 of a mill salary/cap hit. If he was making journeyman Jacobson coin maybe that would be a different story.

    I feel badly for guys like Teibert and now Levis because they seem to be the classic "token" Canadian guys in the eyes of management here. I'm still not sold on the extent of the upside of Levis, but I don't see any upside in Shea as an LB and I would rather see the young Canadian guy get the next start. It would be ironic if both Teibert and Levis were left off the match day squad for Canada Day.
     
  13. OldFan2015

    OldFan2015 Member

    Nov 29, 2015
    Club:
    Vancouver Whitecaps
    I agree. I keep bring up Ghazal, but I was utterly stunned when I learned his salary. Juarez is a bust too but with his pedigree it's not surprising it took that much to sign him. Ibini should not even be in teh MLS for half the price.

    Even if they do stay within 100 grand of the salary cap and all MLS monies like they are right now, they are still wasting a significant portion of this league money and cap . Carl has a long track record of players significantly under performing their salary; whether that be complete bust, or players that are so hot and cold or inconsistent that over a season they are a problem.

    If owners really want to keep their own money to a minimum, they need to hold Carl accountable for how he spends the salary cap. He has been way below average on that in his tenure. They reward that C student and will likely bring him back again next year even if they miss the playoffs. We won't win MLS cups being at the bare minimum of ownership investment, but bloody hell they could get a better person in charge of signing players and contracts. I would take some of our old Canadian USL players over a lot of the pricey internationals Carl has brought in.
     
  14. tm13

    tm13 Member

    Jan 15, 2008
    Rocky Mountains
    Aly & Juarez are way over paid. You were not the only person floored when that came out. A true "WTF? Did I read that with a extra zero" moment for me as well.
     
  15. tm13

    tm13 Member

    Jan 15, 2008
    Rocky Mountains
  16. hot potato

    hot potato Member+

    Feb 21, 2014
    Club:
    Vancouver Whitecaps

    the 1 thing we can all be sure about is... the ownership group pays NOTHING of ghazal's salary- its either all done through the MLS pots or partially by MLS and his former club

    the Caps have a policy of balancing the books so the owners do not pay anything directly out of their rich collective wallets

    so when people talk about additions come the july transfer window, it will only be done through an equal out-in salary- dont expect anything exciting to make a playoff difference for this club as it will continue to be a fine line between making it or not

    personally, i dont think the club has enough going for it to make a run at a playoff spot unless reyna does a 4 month run of scintillating play which i dont think is in his soccer DNA

    and in the off-season, we can expect a turnover of at least 12 players and a lot of tears when we see alphonso heading across the pond
     
  17. OldFan2015

    OldFan2015 Member

    Nov 29, 2015
    Club:
    Vancouver Whitecaps
    He was a free transfer, not a loan or anything like that. So his contract would be 100% on the Caps salary cap and money buydowns. He would have got a nice lump sum to have his contract in China bought out too. The man made a mint.

    This is one of the dangers of the Chinese league. They overpay for internationals, and inflate their salary demands by a considerable margin. I would be very cautious to be dealing with players coming off of Chinese contracts because they likely were paid well above their output. Montero was ok because it was a loan and his Chinese club would have picked up some of his salary.

    All of this Ghazal talk is not a critique of the man. He gives his best and does not seem like a lazy player. He just is grossly over paid based on the MLS system, and that isn't really his fault; he took the best deal available to him.
     
    ChrisSSBB and tm13 repped this.
  18. OldFan2015

    OldFan2015 Member

    Nov 29, 2015
    Club:
    Vancouver Whitecaps
    No, they don't. But it is a full salary cap hit as well as buydown with MLS monies. Money that is being wasted on an over paid player. That is on Carl.

    We have 8 players over the salary max which Mallet goes on "We have 8 DP's", like we should give them a medal.

    Well, first , they are all (with the exception of Kamara), close to the salary cap max , and all bought down with league money except for Kamara. So, they are paying for one DP out of their own pocket for a very small amount of money. (Around 100k if the math worked out from a few weeks ago).
     
  19. BearcatSA

    BearcatSA Member

    Jan 15, 2008
    Canada
    Well, they didn't make the match day squad but they should get starts vs Montreal in the Vees Cup. That match should also feature David Norman Jr.
     
  20. hot potato

    hot potato Member+

    Feb 21, 2014
    Club:
    Vancouver Whitecaps
    throw a token at us canadians- robo could care a rat's ass about playing canadians, especially teibert- why??? i am not sure
     
  21. tm13

    tm13 Member

    Jan 15, 2008
    Rocky Mountains
    Maybe they are not good enough yet? While we tend to say "they are as good as so and so" we don't see them every day in practice. People keep saying Teibert is not getting enough playing time but last year he got 731 minutes and his Audi Index number was 77, I fail to see how that justifies more playing time. Journeymen MLS players are around 200 with the good ones approaching 300. Good MLS players are over 400.

    It is NOT up to the club to GIVE playing time to players. It is up to the players to TAKE the spot by being the best choice at their position. Like Davies has done. In 1300 minutes this year is averaging 391. That justifies more playing time. This is pro sport at the top level in the USA & Canada, this is where the rubber hits the road. It is up to the players to prove they belong at this level when they get their chances.

    Let's see how they do vs Montreal in the V's Cup pair of games. If they play great they will move up the depth chart. If they don't they won't. The players have to kill it when they get their chances on the field.
     
  22. hot potato

    hot potato Member+

    Feb 21, 2014
    Club:
    Vancouver Whitecaps
    are you telling me that you think ghazal and juarez are better players than teibert? really!!??
     
  23. tm13

    tm13 Member

    Jan 15, 2008
    Rocky Mountains
    #1274 tm13, Jul 2, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2018
    Defensively Aly is probably the best of the bunch. Passing he sucks. Teibert is the best of the bunch in passing but gets out of position over running players and out muscled too easily. Juarez I'm at a loss as to say what he is better at except for inconsistency. He has the highest (+407) and the lowest (-559) AI numbers of the 3.

    He is symptomatic of the Caps in that you never know which one will show up. The good, the bad or the ugly and in roughly those 1/3rd percentages.

    Point is none are MLS level players even at the journeyman level. As I posted earlier Aly is at 131 in the Audi Index, Russ is at 81 and Juarez at 68. Given the salary cap nature of the league Aly & Juarez are gonners and Russ will get another chance next year. He needs to up his game to at least the journeyman level every chance he gets.

    Code:
    Player       Russ     Aly          Juarez
    AI/Apps     732/9   1186/9     820/12
    AI Aver      81        131          68
    
     
  24. OldFan2015

    OldFan2015 Member

    Nov 29, 2015
    Club:
    Vancouver Whitecaps
    This man loves his Audi Index. Sometimes though, there are things not measured by detailed stats analysis. Such as, teammates being miffed that Ghazal is paid so high and Juarez doesn't even want to be here and is paid that much . Also, what the AI will not tell you, is you can play Teibert at his salary, not have Ghazal and Juarez, and you have over a million in cap/MLS money space. That can get players that are better than either of those guys and Russel fills in that spot. And then, the Audi Index looks even better over all for that same amount of money.

    Am I onto something or full of it?
     

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