I am ok with it 99.9 of american's play domestically so just that says the roster is heavily euro then take that only what 8 guys play in a top four league again...heavily euro I mean I know you think that 70% proves something...it proves the opposite.
I respectfully disagree with this take. The fact that Holmes and Amon showed better than various MLS players is not a reflection of their league vs. MLS but rather a reflection of each individual compared to other individuals. I think that MLS is roughly comparable to the championship and B1. All of them are meaningfully below the major leagues and in each of these minor leagues, it is only a small subset of players who can translate to a higher level. Besides, no one in soccer is going to show amore meteoric rise than Adams from RbNY to UCL!
I believe the preference for MLS is policy. There have been numerous quotes from figures like Arena and Garber. Please, tell me the number of European based players that skipped or are without connections to MLS in on this roster. Or the last time we even had a roster with more than 1/3 of them. These types of players DO exist and they ARE available. I just listened to Bobby Warsaw on TSS basically talk trash about “hype” players like Robinson, Horvath, Holmes, and Mix... what’s the common theme there? He then spends time saying a list of MLS players who he would rather play. His agenda isn’t even remotely hidden and he’s a pure media apologist for this current USSF cultural mentality. A culture that is filled with old duo MNT/MLS players.
total tinfoil hate opinion 1)its very difficult for an american to come up in the states in a system other then mls...in fact its impossible. MLS can put a homegrown tag on you and all of a sudden even if you don't plan on playing in mls...ur connected to mls. The only way to avoid mls entirely is to basically not live in the states after the age of like 12. So its like saying there is a bias within the usmnt towards players born and raised in the us...uh no that just makes people naturalized americans so its not a conspiracy. 2)the list of euro based players who are skipped or are without mls connections are very small and its not a good list at all. They are available for a reason and again its not a good one. just because a player is euro based doesn't make him a better player. (mix is a good example of a guy who was always vastly overrated simply because he played in europe) 3)a guy who works for mls likes mls...wow what a tainted view I mean what a troll he is...oh wait he works for mls. shocking he likes guys who work for who he works for lol. Everyone has an agenda the fact that you just refuse to admit it if they agree with you is really a you issue not their issue.The common theme between those four players...they are overrated. Robinson is a defender that struggles defending, Horvath is a decent keeper but by no means a lock for anything(oh and I think steffan is vastly overrated), holmes may be a functional piece at best but isn't a world beater and mix is one of the most overrated players ever.
I think there are a lot of assumptions being made here. The preference for MLS players is solely due to a coach's decision. I seriously doubt there is any pressure from the USSF or SUM or any other body. At the end of the day I do believe that the USMNT coach is given sole discretion here. The US U20s have many players based abroad. The US U20 coach Tab Ramos (and their coach is the USYNT technical director) had no issue picking players that spurned MLS for greener pastures (Llanez, Mendez, Ledesma, Gloster, Soto, etc.). No pressure from the federation not to pick these players? No, if folks want to whine about the player selections for this roster..........................this is Berhalter's decision alone. What I would say is that the appointment of Berhalter in the first place can be construed as wanting to go in a more domestic direction. Coaches are going to start out with the players they're most comfortable with. I don't care where the players come from. Alfredo Morales isn't the second coming of N'Golo Kante. What bothers me is that we just failed to qualify for the World Cup, and have picked many of the same players. What we needed to do was turn the page and move in a different direction. Instead there's a lot of "status quo" going on.
MLS is GB's comfort zone. He is more familiar with these players. At the same time, it is not like the U.S. has a huge pool of tremendous, top tier talent to choose from. Taking these two considerations together, my opinion is that GB is simply looking to find some MLS talent which is good enough to help the national team. Given our lack of top tier depth, he doesn't really have much of a choice. Others have said the GB is too obsessed with finding players that fit his system. It is a fair concern, but we are too early in the process to know if that is absolutely the case. The MLS-heavy roster adds something to this school of thought, but we need to give GB time to be flexible and make adjustments. We are not the "Clockwork Orange" or "Orange Machine." We don't consistently have that quality of player. If we get into WC qualifiers and GB delivers the same old, system-based, MLS-level game, competing CONCACAF coaches will use his predictability against us and we'll get slaughtered. That said, rebuilding a team that two years ago disappointed the hell out of all of us is no small task. Let's see what happens at the Gold Cup.
Sounds like you think that Berhalter has a preference for MLS. I agree that it's not reasonable to assume that USSF has sent him a list of players they want on the squad. Next, why do players have to be Kante to be included? They simply have to be roughly equivalent to those currently on the roster and given the makeup of our roster, it's shocking to me that we're excluding anyone who plays at a high level. Do they have to start? Nope - but not to be even considered as a candidate given what Trapp and Yuiell showed last game? C'mon. What I wanted Berhalter (and every USMNT coach) to do is to look at everyone with a fresh start and not have structural preferences beyond a broad recognition that there are tiers to the global soccer meritocracy. This is even more important given that his preference seem to be quite similar to Arena's and we're not "moving in a different direction."
I hope you're wrong. Consistently putting a losing team on the field is a terrible policy decision for any team - unless you've got the worst record in the league and are looking for next year's top draft pick. Who do you think the USMNT will draft next?
I don't agree that there are a lot of MLS players who ideally fit Berhalter's system. None of our players fit the mold as registas, either in MLS or elsewhere. MLS doesn't have elite wing players who can win one-on-one battles that the system seems built to take advantage of. We've put Lletget and Morris there even though that's not where they play normally. I don't think that either Lima or Cannon is an ideal player for the RB/CM underlapping role (even as a backup). Our GKs also aren't great with their footwork and distribution. Which MLS players do you think are ideally suited for what GGG wants? Thanks.
I do think the biggest issue, is a majority of these players failed miserably and then get a callback. I dont think it would matter if the Euro guys where on the field for the WCQs and then got called back by the next manager for the next cycle, youd see the same reactions. The issue is there was very little roster turnover, and the turnover that did occur was under Sarachan and is now being swept back under Gregg. That's not to say these newer players would be better, maybe they wouldnt be. However, players like Bradley, Trapp, Omar, Roldan and Zardes have shown all they can show. They will only get worse, so why bring them over guys on the upswing when those are the ones you will be depending on come 2021. Losing now would be better than losing then, and thats the same trap JK fell into when people began to turn. Gregg so badly wants to win this to vindicate, that the future is being pushed back. And then theres not enough time to amply identify and evaluate players, so you get a callback to the knowns which isnt the best idea a lot of the time.
Apparently, I am coming across as pining for B1 players as if they are the solution to what ails the USMNT. That's not my point at all. If Morales, Johnson and Chandler were deemed surplus because they're either 1) too old or 2) too much of a health risk that would be fine if that perspective was taken across the whole pool. More specifically, if we're going to 1) take older players or 2) take players returning from injury or with an injury history, you should at least consider the ones who have shown that they can play at a high level and not only the ones who are run-of-the-mill minor leaguers I simply want there to be a level playing field and ignoring higher ceiling players for reasons that are ignored for lower ceiling ones means that GGG's structural preferences are harming the USMNT IMO.
There is an obvious bias toward MLS players and it is not good for the national team. If you were making a team, would you rather have Sargent, Wooten, Johnson, Morales, CCV, Lichaj, Chandler, or Zardes, Morris, Lewis, Roldan, Gonzalez, Lovitz, Lima? It's debatable the extent to which USSF pushes the MLS agenda - at the very least intentionally selecting a manager with MLS bias and at most forcing inclusion of certain players.
I'm not sure if its an MLS bias or not. Its only a very short list of Euro-based players that Berhalter hasn't taken a look at. Berhalter has taken a look at a bunch of U23 Euros and then selected other guys instead. That's what's disturbing. He appears to legitimately think some of these options are better than a player like Sargent. His excuse for not picking Sargent had nothing to do with him being Euro based. He said he thought the other options were better. I will say that some of the guys that folks seeming to be pining for didn't actually have good club seasons. Fabian Johnson didn't have a good club season. CCV, Robinson, and company didn't have stand-out club seasons in the championship. There are many other examples.
I'd be interested in how you think the MLS players on the roster are doing this season? Any Best XI candidates? Are their seasons significantly better than CCV/Robinson, etc.? Not from my eye but you're closer to the league than I am.
It is an interesting group on that other spectrum. They are so transparently inconsistent and hypocritical with their views. I am guessing those who are claiming to not see a bias are the ones who were the loudest in 2015/16 claiming MLS players were being ignored when only half the team was from MLS. It is quite interesting that we have gotten pretty much every MLS player possible and not one has been an upgrade. Actually, in most cases, the players are much less talented and performed worse than the foreign based players they replaced. This doesnt feel like my national team anymore and have actually found myself rooting against MLS players. I think what is happening is very bad for the national team and reflects very poorly on the league. I think down the road, they are going to want this one back. It is startly they didnt realize it after not qualifying while looking so poor down the stretch. What became clear then and will only get worse is that the American MLS players arent very good. This roster is basically what Excellency has argued for a while but even taking further than he was even thinking... start with an MLS team and only replace if there is a player who is materially better. Based on this roster, I would probably start every foreign based player, but have no confidence Berhalter will... at least initially. What is very apparent to anybody who understands the game at all or really just honest, the Euro group of players are way better than the MLS based players. Whatever Euro based player doesnt start initially will force their way onto the field. Holmes made it pretty clear the other night he was a level or two above the MLS guys and it will be hard to keep him off the field. Even following this practice, more and more Euro based guys will force their way on to the team in the next couple of years. By 2022, I think we are back to 2010 levels of less than a handful of MLS guys. What will be even more clear is that American MLS players are in general inferior to the Euro based ones. I am sure this will elicit pixie dust comments, but it is really just our best players being in the best environements which will produce the best players.
I would never think about rooting against our national team players but I often think about Excellency being Berhalter’s nom de guerre here on BS. His viewpoint of an MLS team except when a player is so superior he forces his way into the pitch is often on my mind. What I think will be interesting is if Brooks and Yedlin loses their starter status - will they get relegated to the back of the bench?
Euro based players are not going to be able to force their way anywhere if GB is truly biased. I'm giving GB the benefit of any doubt for now. IMHO anyone who really understands the game will appreciate that GB has too much ground to make up and too little time in which to do it. This Gold Cup is his pre-test and a chance for him to see where development of his vision is at. The real test will be the qualifiers, and he's got a bit more time to prepare and adjust for those.
Not so fast. It is not unreasonable for a general policy, written or unwritten, that favors players to be included that either have played in MLS or currently play in MLS. That rightfully should be a LOT of players and it's part of the marketing push that brought Bradley and Altidore back on money that was above what they would gather on the international market. The marketing absolutely does matter to MLS/SUM/USSF. So what is the end result? Players with no developmental ties, leaving on free transfers, or skipping MLS entirely are simply being excluded/cut/short-leashed. MLS players are being recycled by coaches and defended by MLS owned media commentators. Of course, I bring up a lot of these observations slightly tongue-in-cheek, but it's becoming apparent during the last 24 months that the NT is undergoing a hard shift in one direction.
I don't really have a take on that, except that if a couple of guys like Brooks and Ethan Horvath weren't injured, that percentage would be lower, and that it makes no sense to me to bring Sargent to the senior camp instead of the U20 WC and then leave him at home. Other than that, what's there to say? Not much.
I don't hate MLS. I do thoroughly dislike Don Garber and many of the ways the league administration operates. I do not like the league-run media AT ALL. I don't have time to really dive into each point but here is a short, concise reply for you to show I have taken your feedback: 1. It's very difficult due to pay-to-play and MLS has positioned itself it be the only route with any participating league under it's own terms. 2. The list of Euro-based players is extensive. There are at probably 8-10 players we could bring into this tournament and certainly at least not perform worse than that silly Jamaica match. 3. It's not really about him "liking MLS" rather that he opines about these "hyped" players who are all euro-based (also with little connection to our domestic league) and every alternative is either a defense of Berhalter's selection or an MLS player. He essentially admits to barely watching the players in Europe, so why he insists on slagging them on a few prior appearances or even makes an argument - I don't know.
That seems like a simplification, but I'm willing to digress that you think the quality of then other potential players is just replacement level for the MLS guys we currently have on the roster. Are we just dealing with a favor of known quantities who are easily trackable as opposed to putting in the work to follow every player in the European leagues? That's what I'm going to assume you mean.
I never thought I would. It wasnt premeditated. It just happened the other night. I dont see this as the national team that I have been rooting for since 1989. It is being used to market players of a league that isnt concerned about its success. There is no way that Wil Trapp should have played in 14 of the last 16 games. There is no way Gonzalez should still be in the program.
So you are saying Sargent is associated with MLS because they decided what team owned him? I know that is how they like to market but I dont see it. I dont see any link between MLS and Pulisic. What is the connection there? If MLS is really going to start looking for training competition, I could see players who want to go overseas not joining MLS academies.
I say this with respect - if you find yourself rooting against the players on the USMNT, you need to turn the TV off. I agree with many (but not close to all) of your takes, so take this advice for what you paid for it. It can’t be worth your time and energy to root against our national team.