What's your take on USMNT preference for MLS?

????????????

He was great against West Brom and solid against Fulham. I understand he's not world class but his floor is much higher than the likes of Lovitz and Cannon and that's what you want from a defender.

 

He wasn't. His role is helping in attack, something Kane used to do well on the right and Lichaj is better at doing on the left. He wasn't bad, but he used to do better for them.

I don't want Lovitz. That someone doesn't love your flavor du jour does not mean they want an inept guy in his place. I wanted Dest on the left, Yedlin on the right, FWIW.

PS: I like Cannon better than Lichaj.

 

Disagree. He's been incredibly solid this year with few defensive mistakes.

Agreed. Both players are faster than Lichaj and add more going forward but Lichaj is more seasoned on the defensive side.

For a game like Cuba, absolutely. Cannon has far more upside at this point and should be seeing more minutes. If it's a must win, I'd take Lichaj. I'll take either over Lovitz.

 

CCV, Robinson, and almost of the Euro guys sat on the bench for the U23s.

Our MLS academies shipped a bumper crop of prospects overseas. The reward for almost all of those players is they are frozen out of the MNT and U23 teams, which are BOTH made up of ~70 percent MLSers.

The Canary Islands camp is a huge slap in the face/shot accross the bow. Imagine a Camp Cupcake with a roster made up of ~70 percent European-based players, and you've captured Kreis' U23s.

 

True, but that's on Kreis, not Berhalter, right?

 

It's on Berhalter, the head coach who could call up any player that he wants. He called in U23 players to the NT, lest people forget that Sargent and Dest are eligible for Kreis' team.

Berhalter also made it a point to have dual-U23/NT camps, and to consistently claim that he's trying to make a "pipeline" from the YNT to the NT, both in terms of players and "The System TM". What he didn't say, yet is doing, is he's actually making a pipeline solely for MLS players, and refusing to play our European players.

Kreis' implementation of Berhalter's system, and his in-game adjustments are obviously his own, but it's Berhalter's fault that Kreis is trying to have his kids play the way the NT plays.

 

We used to have established starters in the big leagues like Dempsey, Bradley, Jones, Howard, Beasley, Altidore, Johnson, Brooks, Cameron, Bedoya and I'm sure I'm forgetting one or two names.

Now we only have Pulisic, Steffen, Brooks, and Yedlin as established starters. Adams has been injured for a long time so who knows with him in his club, although he should be a sure starter for us. Morales hasn't established himself as a sure starter yet and hasn't looked that good for us when given the chance. Then you have Sargent who is still a bench player(a few starts cause of injury) at his club but was given the chance to take the starting spot over Zardes last round and didn't take it. Didn't even look that great yesterday despite scoring 2 goals.

Every other league is comparable to MLS and when that's the case, coaches will always go with what they're more familiar with. That's just normal. So of course there's bias. I just don't think it's for the reasons you guys think. We are simply not as good as we used to be. Because most of our European based players are nothing more than promising players at this point. Once they break into their first team and start getting a lot of minutes, I'm sure Gregg will start calling them over MLS players and give them chances to take a starting spot. Much like what he's done with Sargent and Dest.

And how many minutes are provided by former non MLS players like Arriola, Bradley, Lletget, Guzan.

 

Historically our World Cup rosters have been around 9-11 MLS players which is honestly probably where it always should be. There's a post of mine I think in this thread? Where I do a detailed analysis of our historical roster makeup.

Just eyeballing the rosters, it's clear that the European guys end up getting more minutes than the MLS guys historically. There has been a correlation (I'll leave the causation to someone else) between higher MLS makeup and poorer results.

 

Back then we had guys in Europe like Dempsey, Boca, Reyna, Dolo, Beasley, Bradley, Rico, DeMerit, Deuce, Jozy, etc. We had a few who broke easily like Holden and JOB.

Now we have guys like Adams, Weah, Johannsson, Johnson, Morales, Yedlin, Amon, Payne, Green, Brooks, etc. We have a few who don't break easily like Pulisic and McKennie.

Whatever the difference in value, the big difference is that the players we have now are broken more often than not.

 

Whoa Whoa Whoa...………..f**k you just say?

 

Actually, he is pretty close to Arena's team in 2017 that didnt qualify for the WC.

Here's a breakdown of #USMNT Starting Lineup & squads by year from 2014-2019

2014-JK
52.1%-#MLS XI
49.1%-@MLS Squad

2015-JK
49.5%-XI
49.2%-Squad

2016-JK
43.5%-XI
45.3%-Squad

2017-Arena
63.6%-XI
70.1%-Squad

2018-Dave S
38.6%-XI
41.6%-Squad

2019-Bert
60.6%-XI
71.0%-Squad

— Thomas 🇺🇸 (@USKeeper) November 21, 2019

 

I was generalizing, but yeah once again supporting the narrative that this is a bad composition for good results.

 

I had just come across the tweet I posted. I have pointed out before that the only time there have been MLS heavy rosters before Berhalter was when they brought a bunch of players home when the league started (bombed out of 98 WC and Sampson complained about it) and when incorrectly thought he could qualify for the world cup in 2017. It is just so strange the Berhalter would copy a formula that was used in biggest failure of the program.

 

Here is an exercise for any that want to participate.

Make a listing of the top players in European leagues that are playing. (if you want to list injured players in parenthesis or something that is fine also.

By playing, I mean they have to consistently get some time. Starting is obviously good but a rotational player that gets consistent sub minutes is fine too. I would say Sargent, who to my knowledge isn't an everyday starter, counts. Adams doesn't count (injured). Morales (who missed some time due to injury but is back, most definitely counts). League should be stated and status (starter, rotational etc) of player should also be noted. Ideally, the league will be one that is clearly superior to MLS ie B1, EPL etc.

With that list, create a team. If you don't have a player for that postilion that fits the criteria, leave the spot blank. Please don't play anyone dramatically out of position. being in U19 or second team doesn't count.

I will leave it up to you to decide whether a league like B2 or Championship etc is clearly superior to MLS but as I said earlier, please note the league.

Thanks,
I apologize in advance for not participating. I do not know the European contingent of US players well, so will refrain but I am looking forward to seeing what others come up with.

 

would your team look something like this?

Fwd: Sargent, (Wright?)

Mid: Pulisic, McKennie, Morales, (Holmes?, Boyd?)

Def: Dest, Brookes, Yedlin, (Ream?, CCV? Miazga? Robinson?, does Chandler rise to the top since he is on a higher ranked team? )

GK: Steffan

 

Another exercise. Write down all the players in Europe, including those that suck over there and seldom play or have been sent to play with the kids. Make a team with those, assuming they developed in accord with the hype they generated here.

For example:

Danny Williams (N)
Jonathan Amon (N)
Erik Palmer-Brown (N)
Kenny Saief (N)
etc.

where N stands for Narnia, which is where those players achieved their touted potential. Play them in the Narnia World Cup and tell us if they won it.

 

Does this mean that Sebastian Lletget plays for Archenland in this scenario?

 

Thanks, I was actually thinking of this as more of a hypothetical "pure" Euro roster. After several people respond (if they do), perhaps a clearer picture would arise over who people consider to be the first 11, or the first 23 in Europe. By indicating the league, it would give a very rough estimate of how deep the US quality is. I think there is probably a general consensus on the top few (Pulisic and a few others) but my guess is that there will be quite a lot of divergence after the to 5-8 players.

Edit: Also, I specifically wanted to avoid players that would skew the roster because they are injured or have been injured for long periods (ie Adams, Johannsson et al) and also youth players (in second team or U19).