Positives from the game today: (1) Pelle will not play again under Ventura after his shambolic performance and disrespect toward Ventura when subbed off. (2) Parolo's days are limited; horrendous in possession. (3) Buffon had his once in lifetime gaff, so it looks like we should be good all the way through to his retirement. (4)Belotti is a sure-fire starter moving forward. (5) Romagnoli is classy, dependable, and a breath of fresh air at the back should one of the BBC have a cold, injury, suspension, etc. I expect Ventura to make a few changes for the game against Macedonia and rest some of the players that played the full 90 minutes today. Once he is healthy, Marchisio will be a huge help instead of De Rossi in the center of the park. However, unfortunately there is no alternative for De Rossi in this squad, which is why I was advocating for Jorginho's inclusion. Again, it looks like Daniele will have to be the fulcrum in midfield on Sunday. Still a serviceable player at the international level and a leader, but his legs these days are constantly behind the rest of his body. Too slow. Probable 11 for the Macedonia match on Sunday: (Changes from Spain match in bold) Buffon Barzagli -- Bonucci -- Chiellini Candreva -- Verratti -- De Rossi -- Bonaventura -- Criscito Belotti -- Immobile
Thank you! I joined up this site to say that but you said it for me. Furthermore, in a group where we have to beat Spain as they've knocked in 8 past liechenstein what the hell are we doing fielding that lineup, playing defensive at home on the counter against a team we destroyed 2-3 months ago. It's like were Moldova playing Spain of 2008-12. We had Candreva who's been probably our best performer for 2 years at least as an attacking option and Verratti on the bench. Sack this invalid manager. He's going to ruin us.
Italy sitting back at home playing that defensive trash line up is a disgrace. We had to win to get top spot and Ventura laid a king sized egg. Get rid of him. He looked absolutely clueless tonight like he did against France.
You can't win a group 2 games into the qualification round, but you sure as hell can lose it. Especially against an elite team the caliber of Spain. If Italy had opened itself up to a free-flowing match against Spain, Ventura would have played directly into their hands (See Euro 2012 final result with Prandelli). The tiki-taka style thrives when teams leave space in an open match. Instead, tiki-taka is not conducive to nor effective against a parked bus that plays on the counter. Italy proved that at the Euro's with Conte. Don't forget how Italy beat Spain in June; Chiellini scored on a tap-in off of a free kick and Pelle scored on the counter late on. Not exactly an open, free-attacking Italy, but they got the result on a set-piece and a counter-attack. I understand the concern with some of Ventura's selections for the starting 11, but I don't agree with the argument that his approach to the match was off. A loss tonight would have us chasing Spain the rest of the qualification campaign and then we would have to win in Spain just to be tied on points. The draw here allows us to take care of business against the other sides in the group and put the onus on Spain to do the same. When it comes time for the rematch in Spain, then la Nazionale can open themselves up and go for the win because in all likelihood, if we end tied on points, Spain will go on based on "goals scored" anyways. The tempered approach here allows Italy to keep fate in its own hands. It was a strategic approach by Ventura. A tie is just fine at this point in the qualification round. Bottom line: It's not a bad strategy to play it safe early on (game 2) and see what the table looks like going into the return leg in Spain.
Sempre, The problem with your logic is that you assume we couldn't play counterattacking calcio with more skilled players in the midfield like Verratti and Candreva. I think those are two of the most perfect players to do that and hit you hard on the counter. I didn't hate Ventura's strategy...I hated the player selections. Awful.
You're joking. The way we scored vs Spain didn't reflect the way we played. We played open free flowing football and killed them at their own game. You can't expect Spain to slip up anymore than we can. And now we definitely can't slip up. We had to win here otherwise we have to beat them in Spain. Sorry but you have no idea. And btw this isn't Spain of 2008-14 but we let them play like they were. Hideous tactics and player selection. Don't try to beat them in Italy but beat them in Spain. Yeah great logic buddy.
Not to mention that if you're going to play a counterattacking team, then you play some counterattacking players. What on earth is the point of parking the bus and hoping to score on the break when your attackers run like they're heading to their own funerals?
Just watched the game. I hope Ventura finally wakes up and makes Belotti the main guy now at CF. Pelle should be finished after his putrid game today. So happy with Romagnoli's performance. I think he should take over at CB over either Chiellini or Barzagli before the WC in 2018. Doesn't have to be right away, but he needs to get more starts in the next few fixtures. And I think Immobile looked okay off the bench, he's not a starter, but can contribute against tired legs. Its time to leave 3 5 2 behind. Ventura needs to inject youth in that midfield. Jorginho and Benassi need to come into the squad at minimum....
Were already 6 goals behind Spain after one game we don't smash teams it's not like we can score 8 past liech. Hoping a more offensive team will slip up is a cowards strategy and one of a loser. Especially that we have to play them in Spain. We can slip up just as easily as they could. Not going for it or at least playing the right way at home is an absolute negative losers mentality.
Not sure you understand what I am saying, "buddy". You can't win a group 2 games in, but you can sure put yourself in a position to lose it by having to chase Spain the rest of the way. What's the point of opening up and risking a loss so early on in the qualification phase? By playing into a powerful adversary like Spain's hands/style of play that is exactly the risk you run, regardless of whether you are playing at home or away. If we go your route, open ourselves up, attack, and lose (which is always a possibility against Spain), then Italy is chasing Spain the rest of the qualifying round until they play again in Spain. At that point, even a win would bring Italy even on points with Spain assuming both teams win out the rest of their qualifying games and as you so aptly said, "we don't smash teams it's not like we can score 8 past liech", so Italy would finish 2 regardless on goal differential. At least now, Italy lost nothing to Spain and the onus is on both teams to take care of business against the other teams. If you're so confident in the attacking strategy, then what are you worried about in Spain? If at that point both teams are tied on points, then Italy will have to win regardless because of the goals scored factor.
Sempre, assuming that neither Spain nor Italy slip up against Albania etc, then we need to beat Spain at some point to win the group. It is easier to beat Spain in Italy than in Spain. Therefore, our best chance to win the group was to beat them in Italy. That isn't even a football analysis; it's just logic. MagicMan, you're asking for a red card with the personal insults.
You're missing my point. I understand that. However, a loss today would have left Italy in a situation where a win against Spain later on would be meaningless (assuming both teams beat all of the other squads in the group). Instead, a draw today is not the end of the world. Italy can still top the group with a win over Spain in Spain. But again, if Italy had lost today by playing into Spain's style of play (which would have been extremely possible), then a win later on would only bring Italy equal on points with Spain (assuming both teams win the rest of their games). I don't know how else to explain it.
Positive: Ventura looks like he has no time for long-ball bs. And he didn't waste time switching to 3-4-3 when necessary. Goes well for the future. A Bellotti flanked by players like Berardi, Sansone, Bernadeschi, Insigne is full of quality. Negative: Lack of depth in midfield. The drop-off from Verratti and Marchisio is so big. Not sure why Jorghino and Bennassi aren't being called in. Jorgi to rotate with De Rossi and Bennassi will be a Parolo with more skill. We got a good result, though rode our luck, (Vittolo's miss and 0-13 corners!) So we'll have to beat Spain in Spain but that doesn't look so difficult with a full squad.
Exactly. Only an idiot wouldn't understand this. They're already chasing Spain by being behind on goal difference big time. '' Lets not beat them at home we're it's easier, let's beat them away where it's harder '' yeah great logic there. Also I am magic I take red cards and turn them into Millions of dollars.
I am honestly not sure if home advantage really matters much especially with national teams. I think we can beat Spain just fine next year as long as we don't have many key players injured, and we work our guts to it. I am also hoping Spain will slip up against Albania in a few days.
If we can take any positives from yesterday's poor display and result, it may be that this was the last time we see Pelle on the NT. I was never a huge fan, but the PK against Germany was the nail in the coffin. Screw that guy--average forward with a shitty attitude. Hopefully, Bellotti gets his chance.
The Italian mentality of engaging in calculations and point strategy 2 games into a qualification is part of the problem. I wanted 3 points yesterday. Playing it safe never really pays off in the end. You have to be aggressive but in a smart way. Spain's defense looked shaky in the last 15-20 min. They should have been attacked much more throughout the game. The problem was that the midfield was not capable of holding the ball, dribbling by anyone, or stringing 2 passes together without it getting intercepted. Spain pressed us very high. The only way you beat that is with SKILL. The most skilled players were sitting on the bench. It was a disaster in player selection. Picking an out-of-form Montolivo who never could run (and certainly doesn't now) was a disgrace. His injury actually helped us as we finished the first half with a little more gioco. The scariest part of yesterday to me is Ventura. If someone on a message board sitting in NYC can look at that starting lineup and see disaster about to happen...why can't the CT of the 4 time World Champs? I want to like Ventura but that was very troubling.
First of all....don't assume Spain will get maximum points against the other teams. Spain can be beaten in Spain. We played it safe....did you expect anything else from an Azzurri team ???