For the love of God, please remove all slow motion and freeze frame video from VAR. if you can’t tell at live speed, it’s not clear and obvious. Leipzig vs Bayern a goal was overturned due to offside for maybe the difference between a size 8.5 boot versus a size 8, and even that it’s extremely tight. A huge decision from VAR denies Bayern the lead!Goretzka's goal is waved off after a lengthy review concludes Lewandowski was offside. Wow! 🤔 pic.twitter.com/QvNrhQSN1o— FOX Soccer (@FOXSoccer) May 11, 2019
The responses to that tweet show how use of technology is feeding conspiracy theories, rather than dispelling them. It’s amazing no one saw this coming.
This game was never meant to be adjudicated at this level. It’s supposed to be free flowing, continuous action. We have trifling engrained into the laws to help facilitate this. Whether it’s offside decisions like this, games of penalty kick ball where VAR finds any reason to hand down a penalty, or find the foul in the APP after a goal was scored, the game is changing.
This discussion should move to the weekly MLS thread (I can’t move it now so would hope people just self-direct). But there also is the below angle. What the? pic.twitter.com/8CrZ8q5wyE— Maximiliano Bretos (@MaxBretosSports) May 11, 2019
I get that offside is supposed to be a factual, “black and white” decision. This play shows that I just don’t think it’s realistic to ever truly to get to that point. I’m a big Dortmund fan and wanted to see the Bundesliga race go to the final day. However, I would have had zero issue whatsoever allowing this to be a goal if the call on the field was a goal. I can’t believe this is what IFAB/FIFA had in mind when they thought of “clearly wrong” or “clear and obvious error.” If there was truly a lengthy review, it’s not clear and obvious.
So the closest Premier League title race we'll probably ever see ends without any controversy and without the use of or need for VAR. This is probably the last major competition that we'll ever see without VAR. I know that VAR will not go away, but the point that I have been trying to make is that the game really does not need VAR. If the closest title race, where two teams essentially won every game for three straight months, can finish without any referee controversy than a league like MLS, where the regular season is essentially meaningless, can go without it. Take a look at the Champions League. What benefit did VAR bring to the CL? Ask yourself, what incident occurred where you said "good thing they have VAR there to correct to that?" A marginal penalty kick for handling in the PSG vs. Manchester United tie? The offside in the Tottenham vs. Man City match? It was a margin al offside decision combined with the deflection off the Man City player that made it really difficult to catch in real time. I think the game could have moved on without VAR there. Now GLT, on the other hand, I was completely wrong about. The game does need it and that was arguably the difference in the title race. A goal was awarded to Man City by inches in one game and denied to Liverpool by inches in a other and tha became the difference.
I would argue the offside decision in City-Spurs justified (limited) VAR in UCL. It was a tough decision, but an obviously incorrect one. Without intervention there, the wrong team goes through and Cakir’s team is toxic for the semis over one easily fixable call. But I take your larger point and agree. VAR in England this year would have undoubtedly led to interventions on a couple penalty decisions that absolutely no one remembers right now. VAR would have created controversy where none existed. The problem is finding that balance where gross injustices can be quickly rectified without subjecting subjective decisions to more subjective analysis. That would be the problem, I mean, if anyone were really working on it. VAR without OFRs in England next year is going to be particularly special.
I'm not sure it should be black and white. Not at least until we get to 1,000 fps cameras and all installed at every field at every position. Also "in line with" is still in the LOTG and so is "doubtful". That Bayern decision posted earlier is atrocious. A human moving at 15 mph travels 11 inches in 1 frame of European soccer. (25 fps). Everything in a captured frame is doubtful, including when the boot first strikes the ball and where that line is placed on the field. A simply awful way to go about decision making. "too close to call" should become part of the lexicon.
I won't argue the game needs VAR, but the game needs something beyond 3/4 refs on the field. The game has gotten too fast and the players too skilled for that small of a pool to be able to successfully officiate the game at all times. My comparison is with basketball where there are again 3 refs on the court, but there are half as many players and about 1/16th the space, and the NBA still has severe officiating issues. It doesn't have to be VAR, but it needs to be something.
Here's one (or two) from Spain today. Real Betis vs. Huesca, referee is Cordero Vega, VAR is Prieto Iglesias. In the first review, a caution for simulation is rescinded and a penalty awarded. In the second, a caution is replaced by a send off.
Another interesting one from Spain, though I'd love another angle of this. At 0:47 below. DOGSO red card + PK for pushing turned into nothing after VAR intervention. I guess it was determined the attacker was already going to ground on his own and there was either no or very light contact? Because it sure looks like the defender at least tried to push the attacker in the back.
Gil Manzano was Del Cerro Grande's VAR on that one. With that result, Levante assures itself a spot in First Division next year, and Girona now faces relegation--they're currently in 17th place with one round of league competition to go, 3 points behind 16th-place Celta and in a bad spot in terms of tie breakers (face to face is a wash, Celta has the goal difference advantage by 6).
I watched the US v South Africa Women's friendly yesterday. There was no VAR for this game. It was a relief after each goal not having to wait to see if the ref was going to stick her finger in her ear.
In Italy, with the cup final, we are now at the place where the lack of VAR intervention is a scandal. Because of course we are. 0:21 here https://soccer.nbcsports.com/2019/0...ly-tops-atalanta-to-win-seventh-coppa-italia/
Mind you, pre-VAR this gets a “wow, Lazio were really lucky the referee didn’t notice that because it’s a penalty but no one noticed so how can you blame him?” commentary after the game. Now we are at “one replay shows the slight deflection and proves handling so it’s a scandal this wasn’t caught.” Progress, right?
Dutch VAR evaluated: https://www.ad.nl/nederlands-voetbal/var-op-rapport-87-correcte-ingrepen-13-keer-onterecht~ab915598/ 87 times correct interference, 13 times wrong. VAR moment last match day shared by the KNVB:
Looking for a video clip, but from last night's LAFC vs Dallas game, the 2nd goal was allowed after a VAR review. Seems pretty apparent that the whistle was blown before the ball crossed the goal line. Lots of mistakes made here by the referee (blowing whistle too soon) and AR (raising flag too soon), and the VAR (for doing what was philosophically right, but legally wrong).
The doubt was in the evaluation process whether yes or no it was correct, not at the moment of intervention.