Post-match: Vancouver Whitecaps FC - San Jose Earthquakes Knockout Round (Wednesday, 10/25) postgame thread [R]

I thought the glass was upended last Wednesday, and the contents spilled all over the plastic carpet of BC Place.

 

Apologies for mixing metaphors, but it's a multi-chapter book. The best is yet to come.

 

a half full glass in sports equates to failure. of course we were better this season, at home, while our away record was abysmal. we're conceding buckets of goals while lagging behind (as per usual) in the goal scoring department (same old story)...by now Jesse has had plenty of time to evaluate the situation, develop a strategy and begin his work of building a team that can give the fans some hope. I'm willing to give him this offseason to see what he can do. It would be nice if he could articulate a clear plan/vision with the actual fans. hopefully he has the support he's going to need from his bosses, and the connections to get some exciting player signings done. forgive me if I'm skeptical, especially about the necessary support from his bosses part.

 

Very charitable of you, considering Jesse has not yet had an offseason to tinker with the team.

But if Jesse gives the fans a clear plan/vision, he gives it to the opposition, as well. Jesse's semi-incoherent floridness, as another poster describes it, is actually tactical astuteness -- use lots of words to say nothing. I approve. I much prefer he simply show us improvement, which he already has. There is a universe of difference between Vako and Innocent, not to mention Edmundo Zura.

 

ahh yes, the Donald Trump approach "trust me, I know what I'm doing, let's not reveal our super duper secret strategy to our fans lest our adversaries see what we're up to ahead of time." lololololol. Its soccer for crying out loud, not nuclear brinksmanship. We're either upgrading our roster or we're not. Every successful team is eager to communicate player upgrades to their fans for myriad reasons not the least of which, it signals intent.

 

Trump won his election, didn't he? Winning is what you want, right? Trump's odds were supposedly longer than those confronting the Quakes for making the 2017 playoffs, which they also did in defiance of the odds.

I trust Jesse Fioranelli over conventional wisdom on Big Soccer or in the mainstream media.

 

I think Jesse has given plenty in terms of the "vision thing". We can say that it's a little vague, but there is plenty there. You have to read between the lines a bit because sometimes I think he thinks in German or Italian and it comes out a little funny in English. The words are correct - it may just be an odd turn of phrase. Off the top of my head, based on things he's said:

1) Style matters: He wants the club to play an exciting style, citing clubs like Red Bull Leipzig and Lazio as models. So to him, style matters. It isn't an ends justifies the means thing. It's more like get the means right and the ends will come.

2) "We do not bow to any program": (Credit to Jim Harbaugh for that phrase). Jesse wants the club to "impose their will" on the road. We fell ever so slightly short of this goal this year , but you can see hints of the strategy by the way they tried to play on the road. That is, they don't want to go on the road and immediately succumb to the supposed superiority of the home team, bunker and play for a 0-0 tie or a lucky 1-0 win. They want to hold possession and play positive soccer.

3) Play for the shirt: He has said it many times. He is looking for players that really want to be here. So attitude matters. This actually ties into Quakes legacy, when Johnny Moore talked about how the veteran players would essentially demand that the players play for the shirt. Recently he said that he wanted "humble" players, meaning no prima donnas.

4) Be smart: He has talked about being smarter than the opposition. He wants players who have a good soccer IQ. With all due respect to Cato, who always played hard for the Quakes, this may explain why he didn't see much playing time under Leitch.

5) Build with youth: He has emphasized getting young DP's. That, combined with #3 means that he does not want mercenaries spending their last few years in soccer here. He wants players who want to be here and will be here for a while, and who will be here during their best years, and may even have upside. Vako is still only 24. And clearly there was more emphasis on getting playing time to talented young players when Leitch came onboard.

6) Be Innovative: When he uses phrases like "outside of our comfort zone" he means that he wants the team to be somewhat experimental and innovative. He doesn't want it to be just another "me too" MLS team.

This all sounds good, to me anyway, on paper. I had been dying for the Quakes to bring in someone who would define a longer-term vision for the club. He is doing it. But the open question is can he be successful? This stuff is all very easy to say, and very hard to do. We won't really know for another few years. It's going to take some time.

 

That's the problem, we've been so bad for so long that people have lost interest. Without a fairly dramatic turnaround next season, Avaya is likely to become a ghost town on game day.

 

No, probably not.

 

Examine this contention. Do you think that Toronto, NYCF#CK, Atlanta, Chitcago, the Flounders, ForestKillers, and Whitecraps have the same chance of winning MLS Cup as the Loons, Crapids, evil water-stealing galactopustules, DCUntied, or Orlando? (Team Disney for Orlando?)

Some teams are at the bottom of the table because they have crippling issues, some on multiple fronts. Some are down there because they had an off year, and those might bounce back. But the teams are the top are there because they are good.

We are unlikely to make a run at MLS Cup next season. BUT, if we fix our defense and replace our d-mids, we might finish higher in the standings and do well or even very well in the playoffs.

Better defense should improve our possession of the ball, and that should lead to more chances on goal. We'll need some improvement in the d-mid area (I wouldn't have guessed that at the beginning of the season.) And we need a speedy winger on the left side (to compliment Lima on the right). We should replace Quincy.

All of those improvements could lead to us having a marvelous year, or we might be only marginally better.

Go Quakes!!
Stay Crew!!

- Mark

 

Maybe losing by a single goal would have made you feel better, but it would have been an inaccurate representation of the team's abilities. Ultimately, I think their big loss was good in terms of putting the team in perspective. Getting a close loss on the road would have been the wrong result with regard to demonstrating how much father this team has to go.

 

By comparison, the Buffalo Bills have been out of the playoffs for 17 consecutive seasons! Yet, New Era Field is anything but a ghost town. And, behold, under a new, youthful GM, and rookie coach, there has been a fairly dramatic turnaround in year 18 -- so far. Two days ago, at the NFL trade deadline, the new GM gave active misinformation to the public, saying not to expect any trades that day from the Bills. Then they landed a star wide receiver at the eleventh hour. The fans have forgiven because, at least on paper, the trade was a steal.

The watch-word under the new regime has been, to ridicule on the team's internet boards, "Trust the Process." That's all you need to know, and likely all you will know. And either you trust it or you don't, and either it works or it doesn't. That's why they play the games.

 

The teams abilities? They were blown out 11 times. Playoffs notwithstanding, that isn't much progress...

 

They could, but who is talking about this stuff, together? Usually it is just "we are going to compete for a championship!" and there is nothing much beyond that. When is the last time you heard a GM say that they want to sign "humble" players? When is the last time someone had the audacity to say that they wanted to "impose their will" on the road? Which team is calling out the names of specific teams internationally that they want to emulate, and not just picking the obvious world's best teams, but teams that play a certain style? I think it goes well beyond the generic standard talking points.

 

apples & oranges

 

I'm just glad we're stepping out of our comfort zone, making some tough choices and heading straight for the old honey hole...gives me great hope for 2018.

 

Three yards and a cloud of dust.

Was that an apple or an orange?

 

I have no idea what you're talking about but your apple video was amusing.

 

http://www.sfgate.com/entertainment/the-wrap/article/CNN-s-This-Is-an-Apple-Ad-Inspires-12302823.php

 

Yes, that was my point. Losing by a single goal in a single game would not have been indicative of real progress for this team, so it was better they lose big so as it's clear they are nowhere near being a truly competitive team yet. You don't want to foster an atmosphere where the team can pretend they were "this" close to winning it all. They had an absolutely terrible goal differential and the inconsistency from game to game would have been unbelievable if we hadn't all watched it.

Losing 1-0 to Vancouver would have been a lie, is what I'm saying. Not that Vancouver is really all that good, but the Quakes still are that bad.

 

Yeah one thing about Dom, his defense was a lot better.

 

You should be glad he's saying that they're going to be trying something different. You've been complaining that it's the same thing every year.

Let me put it to you this way. You are asking for a pony every year for your birthday, and you never get one. Now your parents are saying, "You know, Quakes05, we're going to do something different for your birthday this year". Well, now who knows, you might just get a pony!! Or would you rather have them say "Sorry Q5, it's business as usual...no pony this year, again."