Utterly co-pious! Twente 2011-2012 [R]

Discussion in 'The Netherlands' started by johan neeskens, Jun 20, 2011.

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  1. JC-14

    JC-14 Member+

    Jan 28, 2010
    Amsterdam
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Maybe Co wants to play without a #10?

    Janssen-----------Fer
    ----------Brama

    Seems like a pretty good midfield to me. For Dutch standards at least.
     
  2. johan neeskens

    Jan 14, 2004
    I don't like that at all. Three players with the same key differentiators. As in hard working physically strong love to run. We need creativity. A Kenneth Perez type.
     
  3. dreamingoranje

    dreamingoranje New Member

    Aug 17, 2011
    Club:
    AZ
    I sort of agree.

    I think you're right in so much as that Fer doesn't really give the side anything it doesn't already have. I do thikn however that he gives the team a much better version of what is already there. He really is becoming a class act and I think he'd drive the team on in a way Brama for instance - who looked out of his depth against Benfica - isn't able to.

    yes, I would say that a priority in terms of the midfield would be a more creative influence after the loss of Janssen in the Summer. but if they were to secure the signing of Fer I really think he's the sort of player that can grab games by the scruff of the neck and launch most of Twente's good work from the middle of the park.
     
  4. BTV802

    BTV802 BigSoccer Supporter

    AFC Ajax
    Jul 11, 2006
    Vermont
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Oooh don't talk smack about Brama. He's the poster child of Enschede.
     
  5. dreamingoranje

    dreamingoranje New Member

    Aug 17, 2011
    Club:
    AZ
    not talking smack, just being realistic. He was poor against Benfica. I think he's a good player, I think Fer's a better one.

    Twente aren't in a position where they can go out and bring in two or three huge signings so it's important to prioritise and I can see why people would think spending a big whack on Fer wouldn't be neccessary when they already have good hard working central midfielders.

    I think Fer is different class though and would be a real statement of intent in the race for the title this season
     
  6. johan neeskens

    Jan 14, 2004
    Brama wasn't poor against Benfica. He made one mistake against Benfica. Big difference. Brama always scores a 6 out of 10, at least. Janssen has much of his move to Ajax to thank to Brama, but of course this isnt something Dutch people in general like to hear about. Brama is a grafter that makes players like Janssen perform better.

    Twente are in a position where they can bring in huge signings. They won't though because unlike all other eredivisie clubs they think beyond the next game and the next season. The irony couldn't get any bigger really. The only financially sound club in the highest Dutch league is the only club in that league that won't spend any money. I wonder if there's any connection between the two facts. Duh.

    As I've said before, with or without Ruiz, with or without Fer, this is a team that will compete in the top of the Dutch league table. In Europe it's a different story altogether of course but it's a pipedream that Dutch clubs can do well in Europe anyway as far as I'm concerned, what with the huge financial differences. What's hilarious to me is how Fer is bigged up now. He's the player most slagged off by Feyenoord fans last season. Lazy, clunky, you name it. Now all of sudden he's brilliant. I'm sorry but WTF. With the allegedly brilliant Wijnaldum and Fer Feyenoord didn't even end up in a European spot last season. So what does this mean. Were the rest of that Feyenoord side that crap? Yes Fer was good against Excelsior and Roda. But do me a favour. EXCELSIOR AND RODA.

    I seriously wish we won't spend this much time on Fer. SURELY we can find a player at least that good for four million elsewhere. I feel sorry for Fer mind you, but I mostly have Twente interests at heart.
     
  7. johan neeskens

    Jan 14, 2004
    You might want to compare how Janssen performs at Ajax without Brama to at Twente with Brama.
     
  8. dreamingoranje

    dreamingoranje New Member

    Aug 17, 2011
    Club:
    AZ
    I really disagree on the Benfica game but each to their own. That's not to say that one game makes someone a bad player, and again, I've not suggested Brama is anything other than good. He was also having to cope against an excellent midfield in that first half but I think he struggled to gain any sort of foothold on the game. It's not about one simple mistake, I just think he looked a little lost at that level.

    He is the sort of unsung hero that every side needs and he does allow those around him to play. There's a reason why McClaren identified him as one of three our four players to build his side around when he took over. My concern though as it stands would be that there's every chance Twente will be fighting primarily with Ajax this season and like last season it really could come down to big games between the two to settle trophies.

    For me a potential Janssen/Eriksson/de Jong Vs Brama/Janssen/de Jong midfield battle would likely be won by the Ajax men in my opinion. The addition of Leroy Fer into that Twente three would really swing the balance.

    That said, so would the inclusion of one more creative, inventive player who could potentially be found more cheaply than Fer too.

    I agree, regardless of whether Ruiz stays, and regardless of whether they bring in another midfielder, Twente will be fighting at the top of the table and look like the most likely (only?) real threat to Ajax this season. They're an incredibly well run club who have shown they are here to stay.

    However, keeping Ruiz, and adding that one more right signing, could make the fine difference between fighting for the title and being crowned champions again.
     
  9. johan neeskens

    Jan 14, 2004
    Here's the big difference between Twente and all other eredivisie clubs: it has management that thinks beyond the next game and beyond the next season. Feyenoord by contrast thinks of this season alone, and worse, banks on this season alone. Quite literally. The big irony to me is that fans of the traditional top three like to call Twente a one off. Meanwhile it's only Twente that seems to have management that thinks beyond tomorrow. It's all good. Long may the power struggle at Ajax last, long may the cluelessness at PSV last, long may the 'we have no money but we're a big club all the same' delusion at Feyenoord last, because as long as those traditional top three clubs are badly managed, Twente will be in the mix. If the traditional top three was as well managed as Twente is, Twente would not have a chance in hell of even getting anywhere near the top three. At Twente we know this. The traditional top three are far too delusional about their stature in the modern game to know it too.
     
  10. JC-14

    JC-14 Member+

    Jan 28, 2010
    Amsterdam
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Better?
     
  11. johan neeskens

    Jan 14, 2004
    Yeh you just make yourself believe that. Your own coach even has his doubts considering how he's changed it up in games. Janssen a controlling midfielder behind Eriksen. What a waste of three million. If you want Eriksen to control play fair enough. What then would you buy Janssen for. His free kicks alone?
     
  12. JC-14

    JC-14 Member+

    Jan 28, 2010
    Amsterdam
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    What do you mean with Eriksen "control play" when you're saying Janssen is the controlling midfielder?

    He's there for the build-up. I don't agree with Frank cause Anita is a better player.

    But it's unfair and inaccurate to suggest that Janssen plays worse without Brama while he's playing an entirely different role.
     
  13. BTV802

    BTV802 BigSoccer Supporter

    AFC Ajax
    Jul 11, 2006
    Vermont
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Hey I'm advocating every week for Frank to play Anita behind Janssen and Eriksen. Unfortunately Frank doesn't check Bigsoccer.

    If you think Brama is better than Anita that is another story.
     
  14. johan neeskens

    Jan 14, 2004
    Well with that you're sort of proving my point. Twente got the best out of Janssen by adjusting the team to him. Ajax are not going to do that are they. Feel free to disagree. Janssen is great but Messi he ain't. He needs his soldiers. I very much doubt that Ajax is going to sacrifice players to him, even though De Boer subbing on Anita shows that he is accommodating to Janssen, at times. The success of Twente has been very much a team effort. This is what the clubs buying our players don't seem to get. Every player at Twente performs thanks to another player. While I highly rate Theo I doubt he'll get the type of support at Ajax like he did at Twente.
     
  15. johan neeskens

    Jan 14, 2004
    The who's better than who type of discussions are pointless. Football is a team sport. You'd be a fool not to acknowledge Brama when talking about Janssen's performance for Twente. Janssen himself has always been quite upfront about it in any case.
     
  16. JC-14

    JC-14 Member+

    Jan 28, 2010
    Amsterdam
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Sorry "neeskens". But I don't see what your point is? That Janssen adds nothing to the team except free kicks? No, I'm afraid I don't agree with that.

    What do you mean with Eriksen "control play" when you're saying Janssen is the controlling midfielder?
     
  17. johan neeskens

    Jan 14, 2004
    Who cares about what name you want to give a position. My point is if you want to get the max out of Janssen you have to accommodate him. Twente sacrificed a player to him, Brama that is. It's thanks to Brama that Janssen at Twente never got in the position that he had to foul people in the penalty box, and that his presence in the penalty box, or a need for him to do defensive work in general, was not required in the first place. To make the most out of Janssen you need to shape your team around him. Twente did that, I don't think Ajax will. I have said in this very thread that I never quite got the Janssen hype, long before he moved to Ajax. Yes he can decide games for you, and he has the best left foot in the league, but to Twente fans, who by the way loved Janssen as a person, he was never our best player, and it's not like they downgraded him because they hated him. I think Janssen himself has said in an interview that yes he can perform and not look out of sorts in even the highest quality team, but he can't see himself elevate the quality of a mediocre team

    You know this is pretty much the story with most other former Twente players. Twente has been a team effort for a long time, with players excelling thanks to their team mates. Maybe Janssen will prove me wrong.
     
  18. BTV802

    BTV802 BigSoccer Supporter

    AFC Ajax
    Jul 11, 2006
    Vermont
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    I'm going to be a sarcastic douche and ask, you are aware that he was awarded the trophy for most valuable player in the entire league last year?
     
  19. johan neeskens

    Jan 14, 2004
    What the national media deem your best player is rarely who your match going fans deem your best player. I'm sure it's the same at Ajax. By the way, the VI/Gilette player of the year award went to Brama, not Janssen.
     
  20. BTV802

    BTV802 BigSoccer Supporter

    AFC Ajax
    Jul 11, 2006
    Vermont
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Mmmm I think Suarez was the unanimous choice until he left. With Stek's injuries I think Vertonghen was universally considered the most valuable player for Ajax. Anita was right behind in my opinion and Frank is pissing me off with his selections this year.
     
  21. BTV802

    BTV802 BigSoccer Supporter

    AFC Ajax
    Jul 11, 2006
    Vermont
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Forgive me for saying this but the VI/Gilette Award is clearly a feel good trophy. Brama was not the best player in the league last season. Maybe most loved/respected/appreciated. But not the best player.

    In my humble opinion...
     
  22. johan neeskens

    Jan 14, 2004
    The thing is these player of the year awards are biased. Yes Theo Janssen was a deciding factor in many a Twente game, but if you look at how he was rated on Twente fansites throughout the season it tells a different story. My dad for example, a Twente season ticket holder like me, but for a lot longer than me, wasn't sorry at all to see Theo go, and mind you he's seen the Van De Kerhoffs, Schrijvers, Muehrens and Thijssens play at Twente, he knows what we can miss and what we can't.

    Twente is a club with limited resources. Team effort is everything. Individuals, contrary to popular belief, are not so relevant. That even extends to the importance of the coach.
     
  23. johan neeskens

    Jan 14, 2004
    The VI-Gillette one isn´t more subjective than the Telegraaf one. Both are based on subjective opinions. And many people would argue that VI is rather a lot more objective than De Telegraaf. De Telegraaf has a clearer agenda in any case.
     
  24. BTV802

    BTV802 BigSoccer Supporter

    AFC Ajax
    Jul 11, 2006
    Vermont
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    You are blessed to have a father that actually cares about the sport. My dad wouldn't even know the name of my favorite club.
     
  25. johan neeskens

    Jan 14, 2004
    Twente is a family affair at my end! Mind you at least you´re spared heated discussions about football at family dinners.

    The Fer camp just increased pressure on Feyenoord for not allowing him to leave to Twente tonight on VI tv, even though he´s told the print media he´s resigned to the fact that Feyenoord won´t let him go.

    This whole situation has got so impossible that I can´t see him not end up at Twente to be honest. And like I said I´m not exactly a big fan of his let alone of Twente paying full whack for him.
     

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