USWNT v Brazil (SBC Finale), March 5, pre/pbp/post.

Discussion in 'USA Women: News and Analysis' started by Semblance17, Mar 2, 2019.

  1. Lookingforleftbacks

    Galaxy
    United States
    Dec 17, 2016
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think you’re giving her too much credit. I don’t think she’s very in tune with what everyone’s best positions and abilities are, just like I don’t think she has a good enough eye to decide who the best players are.
     
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  2. cpthomas

    cpthomas BigSoccer Supporter

    Portland Thorns
    United States
    Jan 10, 2008
    Portland, Oregon
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm really surprised a number of posters thought Morgan had a poor game. I thought she had a great game, but maybe not what posters were looking for from her. I think at least one of the commentators mentioned this. When the game metrics come out, we'll see.

    Mewis had a terrific game, maybe with her work against England and in this game starting to make a claim for a lot of time on the field in the future.
     
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  3. McSkillz

    McSkillz Member+

    UCLA Bruins
    United States
    Nov 22, 2014
    Los Angeles
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's also spelled M A C E
     
  4. blissett

    blissett Member+

    Aug 20, 2011
    Italy
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    English is a fascinating language.

    This reminds me of when George Bernand Shaw said that "ghoti" could also be spelled "fish". :giggle:
     
  5. L'orange

    L'orange Member

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Jul 20, 2017
    Ellis is nuts with all of her position switching and the versatility thing, IMO. At this level, with America's talent, you don't need to put players in different positions--but she does because she apparently decides that certain players have to be on the team and have to be on the field--and if they can't start at one position maybe they can start at another.

    Some position switching makes sense--moving Ertz from centerback to defensive midfield worked. But she's been particularly weird with the outside-back position. Dunn is a great athlete and has never, IMO, gotten a real opportunity up front, so Ellis moves her to outside back. Maybe a defensible move, because of her pace and athleticism--but Dunn is not a great outside back and still seems to be adjusting to the position after a year of playing it for the national team, and it's not easy because she plays as an attacker for her club team. And then playing Sonnett at outside back for a long stretch of time was dumb and an insult to the outside backs in the NWSL. Sonnett is overrated as a centerback, IMO, and simply not a good outside back--but Ellis plays her there anyway, so the team had for several games two outside backs--Dunn and Sonnett--who had pretty much never played the position and weren't very good at it. Bizarre, dumb and, as I say, insulting to real outside backs.

    Then in this last tourney she decides to put Pugh in the midfield, where she has little experience, and play her with Lavelle--another dumb move that did not work and meanwhile Mewis sits on the bench. I'll bet if there hadn't been a lot of chatter by the soccer intelligentsia about why Mewis wasn't playing, and questions about Pugh in midfield, Ellis surely would have done the same thing with Lavelle and Pugh in the next game.
     
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  6. hocbz

    hocbz Member

    Feb 15, 2016
    #106 hocbz, Mar 7, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2019
    They already have a forward that can drop back and link with the midfield, and drive the ball forward on the dribble. Press. Mcdonald is even older than Press and Morgan and won't feature much or at all next cycle, if she even gets minutes in France.

    Morgan has tried to evolve her game to drop back more and engage in hold up plays, and I give her credit for that, but she doesn't have the first touch or skill on the ball to do much with it even if she wins the ball. She has to force an often low quality release to another player as soon as she's pressured, or she turns it over. She has tried to successfully play in Pinoe a few times but Pinoe is slow as molasses. What she can't really do is carry the ball forward to goal herself from deeper in the field. It basically has to be served to her in front of the net, and these better teams are not letting her make those runs in behind.

    Someone called her the female Chicharito which made me laugh. I think if you have to play morgan every game, play in a two front with Press a little behind her.
     
  7. luvdagame

    luvdagame Member+

    Jul 6, 2000
    1. morgan is definitively slower but she is still the best all-round forward on the team. i don't see anyone else able to do the heading, holdup and harassing that she does up front. i think it's not reasonable to hold that ellis sees them every day in camp, knows there's a better option, but refuses to use it.

    2. i've said it before. my understanding is that mewis didn't have surgery on her knee because use/stress reduction promised as good relief as surgery.

    uswnt doctors have to be continuing that under use on an abundance of caution. (not the first time there's disagreement between club & nt coaches about the health & readiness of a player. riley used her a lot at season's end, which may have pushed her even further back in the nt physio's plans).
     
  8. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    If Lavelle had not hurt her knee, she most likely would have.

    Quotes by Pinoe, Morgan, and Brunn after the game showed a real frustration with Ellis's set up for this tournament. All three made it very clear that Mewis should have been playing all along.
     
  9. fire123

    fire123 Member

    Jul 31, 2009
    I tried to ignore people who keep praising Press as if she is the team's savior but I get so tired of hearing it.
    No, she is not, she is one of the many who can play at that position. For some reasons , you love her so just leave it at that. Don't bash other players to lift her up, it's tiring.
     
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  10. lil_one

    lil_one Member+

    Nov 26, 2013
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'd agree with you. I think Morgan had a good game. Specifically, her holdup play and defensive work were great but seem often overlooked by posters.
     
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  11. lil_one

    lil_one Member+

    Nov 26, 2013
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  12. McSkillz

    McSkillz Member+

    UCLA Bruins
    United States
    Nov 22, 2014
    Los Angeles
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah I don't really understand Ellis holding Mewis on the bench. Was she injured or recovering from an injury or what? She played our other A players to the ground all three games hardly subbing them, are we supposed to do that during the Group stage during the WWC? Because that's how you lose if you don't have any depth. We have depth! At least I thought we did. Is Ellis no longer using Lloyd for even a half anymore? Why is she there if Ellis is only going to use her for 5 minutes every game where she's not going to be effective? Don't get me started on the goalkeeper situation. We had a bad game with our number 3 because we that was number 3's FIRST CAP! With Naeher giving me hard attacks, Harris being just a little better JMO, and our third with zero experience on the big stage, that's a bit worrisome.

    I get that she wants versatile players that can play both defense and midfield or forward, etc. but our country is big enough where we have left-back specialists and super great midfielders. Why not use them? Our defense looks atrocious and there's no way we are winning any matches with top 5 teams if we are letting in 2-3 goals even if we are somehow scoring 2 against them.

    This whole tournament has left me scratching my head.
     
  13. hocbz

    hocbz Member

    Feb 15, 2016
    It's to her credit that she has rounded out her game, but that doesn't mean her main job still isn't to score. She's the primary target for service, for 90 minutes every single game and only has 1 goal in 5 games this year. Her finishing hasn't been good. It's just what it is. I don't blame anyone for asking questions as to whether some others should be subbed in if she's not getting it done.
     
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  14. Layman

    Layman Member

    Mar 7, 2002
    I don't know why people are complaining about the lack of goals from Morgan. I cannot expect her to score every game if her team mates are not creating scoring chances for her. Can you?
     
  15. hocbz

    hocbz Member

    Feb 15, 2016
    They do create scoring chances for her, she just isn't converting them. She's also not great at setting herself up. Ellis has tried to maximize her scoring potential by surrounding her with playmakers (heath, rapinoe, horan).
     
  16. lil_one

    lil_one Member+

    Nov 26, 2013
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It seems to me the lineup is to maximize the team's scoring potential. Also I'm pretty sure the whole team was struggling to convert their chances. I know I saw misses from Rapinoe, Mewis, Ertz, and others. Tidier finishing is definitely something that should come back as the team starts their club season though.
     
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  17. jjmack

    jjmack Member

    Mar 20, 2015
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    That is the problem with Morgan, she can’t score without her teammates setting her up.
     
  18. PlaySimple

    PlaySimple Member

    Sep 22, 2016
    Chicagoland
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    I asume that your comment is tongue-in-cheek but if not, the last time I checked soccer was a game in which the scorers rely on teammates "setting them up." It's funny how basketball, lacrosse, field hockey, ice hockey, and all of those types of sports are the same in that regard.
     
  19. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    The more I think of it the more I think it comes down to the way the players are compensated. I think Pugh was promised a Tier 1 contract when she turned pro for a certain amount of time. She is good, she is young, but she is not critical to the team and probably has never earned a top contract (Davidson can't even get allocated). She plays a lot of minutes but that is because she is paid a lot of money.

    I think it has been between Press and Pugh as a back up at the forward position on the final 23. Press showed well at qualifying and in France and Spain. Ellis might want to lean to Press and was looking for some other position for Pugh. Thus, this entire tournament was dedicated to seeing if Pugh could go instead of Brian. I would say no, but Jill has her answer. It could be Jill has been told that she has to take Pugh, and is just trying to figure out how.

    Sonnet as back up to RB and CB, Davidson as the backup to CB and LB, not looking at Short, not calling Brian, not playing Mewis, it could all be to try and squeeze Pugh onto the roster with Press. The easiest answer would be to drop Lloyd, but that doesn't seem to be in the cards as nobody else has filled in for Morgan.
     
  20. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    GK: Naeher, Franch, Harris
    FB: O'Hara, Dunn, Sonnet, Short
    CB: Brunn, Dahlkemper, Davidson
    CM: Ertz, Horan, Lavelle, Mewis, Brian, Zerboni
    FW: Morgan, Rapinoe, Heath, Press, Lloyd, Pugh, MacDonald

    If you look at the potential roster, it is amazing how little the players 16-23 on the roster play in these so-called tune up games. Short didn't play at all. Did Zerboni get some minutes? MacDonald? Neither Franch or Harris would have played but Naeher got hurt.

    It would make sense if you are trying to build team chemistry, but they are not because they throw everything off with a wacky experiment like Pugh as a #8.

    It all worked out for Ellis the time before last, we will see. Some day, this team will actually have a coach we, and the players, can have confidence in.
     
  21. hocbz

    hocbz Member

    Feb 15, 2016
    It's a fairly common criticism of Morgan actually. It's very obvious on her club team. She is very service dependent. Needs to be played in close to net. There's a reason why she doesn't thrive on every team, while a player like Marta, Press or even Kerr can get dropped on any NWSL team and is instant offense. All of those players can drop back to midfield, pick up the ball, and beat defenders on the dribble to score. Heath and Pinoe can do it too. Morgan is just not that player. She's good in the air and a solid target forward, but if she's not getting service she's not going to generate her own chances like other players do. I think like 90% of her goals on the national team were scored from about six yards out.

    Outside back is the biggest problem on this team. Dunn was exposed when she finally played good teams this year. Sonnett is not a back up for Kelley. It's a huge problem.
     
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  22. cpthomas

    cpthomas BigSoccer Supporter

    Portland Thorns
    United States
    Jan 10, 2008
    Portland, Oregon
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There always will be BigSoccer posters who don't have confidence in the coach. Who they are may change from coach to coach, but the volume of criticism will be relatively constant. It's like a law of physics.:D
     
  23. taosjohn

    taosjohn Member+

    Dec 23, 2004
    taos,nm
    Y'know, though, that sort of implies a question that I wish all rhe Ellis critics on this board would quietly ask themselves:

    If Ellis goes on doing the things, whatever they may be, that you criticize her for-- and wins the world cup anyway-- will you consider the possibility that she actually does know what she's doing?

    Or will it just be pure good luck to you again?

    In other words, is there anything at all that you would consider evidence against your beliefs? Or are they set in stone, immutable truths?
     
  24. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    Who cares at that point, we've won the World Cup! I have no idea if 2015 was all luck. Maybe Jill was compelled to play certain players until she got an opening to do what she wanted to do. She had to bring Brian to insert her.

    2016, the team didn't play well, bringing Rapinoe a mistake. But maybe that was all bad luck.

    Who knows. But you can watch the games critically and try and follow the logic. Because you care! It is hard to follow what Ellis is doing. Like Klinsman with the men, it all seems random. Maybe if Ellis explained it, but she never discusses anything.

    I don't understand the point of view where everything is daisies and unicorn rainbows. What happens if we go out at the quarters again? Will that change your view of Ellis? Or is it just bad luck and she should get the next tournament?
     
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  25. taosjohn

    taosjohn Member+

    Dec 23, 2004
    taos,nm
    Well, I was asking people to ask themselves and answer themselves, not me. I don't, in fact see daisies and unicorns-- but I do think she knows more about the business and the team than I do, or any of the critics here does, and what I can see of what she does-- even when it isn't what I would do-- seems pretty reasonable.

    I simply find the constant vilification pretty tedious, particularly when I think the posters involved are pretty reasonable and intelligent people-- just losing all perspective on the roller coaster of fandom.

    In particular I think people get lost in the fact that we haven't seen this or that and don't realize that she surely has.

    We see the games, but we don't see what was experimented with in practice; and the notion that only games will tell you anything is silly in the first place, and then when overlaid with "well but games against Iceland don't really tell you anything, only France and Germany count" are doubly silly.

    Knowing the difference and telling across that gap is a big part of what a coach does-- and if say, Huerta can't win an attacking job in practice it is not Ellis' job to play her there in a game to convince us too. And then play her there again to convince those who missed the first game, and again for those who wanted her tried in a different attacking role and...

    It is actually her job to not do that.
     

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