USWNT sues USSF 2019 version

Discussion in 'USA Women: News and Analysis' started by lil_one, Mar 8, 2019.

  1. Yoshou

    Yoshou Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    USSF kind of exists in a grey area there, doesn't it? While USSF is a private entity, it is also the national governing body for soccer and it's that aspect that gives it the ability to field the USMNT/USWNT, isn't it? That would seem to be a mechanism by which the US government can dictate pay...
     
  2. puttputtfc

    puttputtfc Member+

    Sep 7, 1999
    US government dictating pay can also result in FIFA sanctions.
     
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  3. Timon19

    Timon19 Member+

    Jun 2, 2007
    Akron, OH
    How so? It is literally not a government entity. The fact that it is a governing body doesn't make it a government entity. It governs competition(s). The WBC governs a competition. The USTA governs a competition (though I believe they took a decision toward equal compensation, it was entirely voluntary). USA Volleyball (for example) is most analogous - it is not a government entity - it is governed by its own code and bylaws.

    As I understand it, no explicit monopoly is granted by an arm of the state (and if it was, wouldn't that be grounds for FIFA dismissal?).
     
  4. BrooklynSoccer

    BrooklynSoccer Member+

    Jan 22, 2008
    The lawsuit and the 2 proposed bills are against US soccer, a nonprofit, and the US Olympic Federation. The lawsuit and proposed bills are not against all "private" entities.

    You should probably read about the two proposed bills, since that is what we are talking about in relationship to the Federation hiring lobbyists to influence politicians.

    “Due to the large number of requests we’ve received from policymakers since the Women’s World Cup, we are taking the proper steps to make sure that those leaders have accurate information and factual numbers that will inform them about the unmatched support and investment the U.S. Soccer Federation has provided as a leader in women’s football across the world,” Neil Buethe, a U.S. Soccer spokesman, wrote in an email to POLITICO.


    As far as you saying this lawsuit "obliterating the concept of freedom of association"...Again, what do you mean? Freedom of association is the workers' rights to organize and collectively bargain, which is what the WNT is doing.
    If they lose, they may will weaken their ability in the future to practice this constitutional right.
     
  5. Yoshou

    Yoshou Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm not sure if that would raise to the level of FIFA sanctions, tho. FIFA tends to get its knickers in a bunch related to things like who can govern the sport, so if the US Government dictated who would be on USSF's board, or revoked USSF's sanctioning without a good reason.
     
  6. Timon19

    Timon19 Member+

    Jun 2, 2007
    Akron, OH
    USSF is a non-profit, private corporation.

    This quote is included as if it materially contests something. I don't see what that something is.


    Labor has (and is expressing) said right. So does management.

    Who is "they" in this sentence?
     
  7. Yoshou

    Yoshou Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    All of which would likely collapse if USOC revoked their sanctioning as the governing body for their sport and gave it to another organization. There is a reason why USA Gymnastics got down on their knees and begged USOC not to revoke their sanction despite the relative strength of USA Gymnastics.

    That's not to say USSF couldn't survive without the sanctioning as they could, theoretically, continue on as FIFA's representative in the US, but having a competing organization that was the only one that could field a USMNT or USWNT would certainly hurt a bit.
     
  8. FanOfFutbol

    FanOfFutbol Member+

    May 4, 2002
    If the government said that US Soccer had to pay a specific amount to everyone or if they said that they had to pay based on some formula then they would be subject to FIFA sanctions. However if they said that something like "Equal pay for equal work" applies in the USSF or even if they passed a law requiring the the USSF pay men and women equally, that is not stating any amount involved, then I do not believe that FIFA could or would sanction them.

    It is a bit of a grey area but it is not the direct interference that FIFA concerns itself about.

    However I do not think such a bill will ever get passed into law and, even if it passes both the House and Senate then I do not think Trump will sign it and I also do not think that the House and Senate would have even a 1/100 chance of producing a super-majority to override the veto.

    I believe that the hiring of lobbyists is just US Soccer showing how stupid they are and are only enriching another set of upholstered parasites.
     
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  9. BrooklynSoccer

    BrooklynSoccer Member+

    Jan 22, 2008
    You keep trying to clump all private corporations together, which is problematic and wrong. The Soccer and Olympic Federations are both 501c. They operate under different laws than traditional corporations or LLC's, because they are a non-profits.

    If you would read up on what this topic is about, you'd understand why I included the quote. The Federation hired lobbyists for the proposed bills. The bills you haven't read.
     
  10. puttputtfc

    puttputtfc Member+

    Sep 7, 1999
    What FIFA wants is unquestioned rivers of cash flowing into their coffers. They will sanction if they feel threatened.
     
  11. puttputtfc

    puttputtfc Member+

    Sep 7, 1999
    Hiring lobbyists is the only thing USSF can do at this point. USWNT is winning the PR battle and bills have been introduced. Politics are a filthy business and I'm sure a lot of what is happening will never be public.
     
  12. BrooklynSoccer

    BrooklynSoccer Member+

    Jan 22, 2008
    That's interesting, is there talk of FIFA sanctioning the Federation over this?
    I wonder if FIFA would change the language in their rule book and instead of paying federations, pay individual players a direct amount or pay each men's and women's team directly.

    The language now in FIFA'S laws does not mention paying "federations". It mentions paying "clubs" and "teams".
     
  13. BrooklynSoccer

    BrooklynSoccer Member+

    Jan 22, 2008
    Perhaps, but what about a PR firm?

    There used to be laws against 501c's hiring lobbyists. I believe it is still highly restricted, since they don't pay federal income tax.
     
  14. FanOfFutbol

    FanOfFutbol Member+

    May 4, 2002
    The only place I have heard such talk is in this thread. But it has been mentioned here so I just though some response was appropriate.

    I will say that FIFA has sanctioned some governmental interference in the past, in other countries, and I can see how dictating pay to National Team members might be seen as "interference." I just do not think it reaches to the level needed for sanctions.
     
  15. ElNaranja

    ElNaranja Member

    Houston Dynamo
    United States
    Jul 16, 2017
    I'm sure if it were challenged they'd respond that money is speech and thatd be that.

    Not that it is right, just that this SC is...well, what it is.
     
  16. taosjohn

    taosjohn Member+

    Dec 23, 2004
    taos,nm
    And if corporations are people, then Congress does have to be a little careful that something it passes isn't a bill of attainder, don't they?
     
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  17. Timon19

    Timon19 Member+

    Jun 2, 2007
    Akron, OH
    I know it's been mentioned elsewhere on BS.
     
  18. Yoshou

    Yoshou Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    While true. I highly doubt equal pay is going to be a hill FIFA is willing to die on... I could even see it being a situation where FIFA tells USSF to suck it up.
     
  19. puttputtfc

    puttputtfc Member+

    Sep 7, 1999
    I agree FIFA won't die for equal pay. They may die on the hill of governments dictating pay. They may choose to ignore it in the same vein they ignored Rapinoe's kneeling.
     
  20. BrooklynSoccer

    BrooklynSoccer Member+

    Jan 22, 2008
    The lawsuit doesn't even mention FIFA for anything of note, other than FIFA rankings in relationship to what the men/women get paid to play a FIFA ranked team.

    World Cup money is mentioned in the lawsuit, but in that section the lawyers didn't even mention that the WC money is coming from FIFA. I actually think this section is one of the weakest for the women's team, which his why it's buried.

    The proposed legislative bills have nothing do to with FIFA.

    FIFA isn't governed by any US law. I don't see how the outcome of any of this will have any effect on FIFA, legally speaking. And clearly the US Federation isn't going to pressure FIFA to pay the women more for winning. Or any Federation in any country, it seems.
     
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  21. gunnerfan7

    gunnerfan7 Member+

    SJ Earthquakes/Arsenal
    United States
    Jul 22, 2012
    Pleasanton, California
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't think USSF's scope of influence matters in its classification as a private vs. public entity. It IS some kind of non-profit corporation. Existing on a national scale and participation in international tournaments makes the USSF as much of a public entity as the US Overwatch e-sports team.
     
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  22. Gamecock14

    Gamecock14 Member+

    May 27, 2010
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    The part of the bill concerning funding for the World Cup is probably the larger sticking point.
     
  23. gunnerfan7

    gunnerfan7 Member+

    SJ Earthquakes/Arsenal
    United States
    Jul 22, 2012
    Pleasanton, California
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  24. Lloyd Heilbrunn

    Lloyd Heilbrunn Member+

    Feb 11, 2002
    Jupiter, Fl.
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Unless they criminally break it.

    I think they've already found that out...
     
  25. Lloyd Heilbrunn

    Lloyd Heilbrunn Member+

    Feb 11, 2002
    Jupiter, Fl.
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    The statements from both sides are disappointing considering that Mediation is supposed to be a confidential process where the only thing discussed afterwards is "yes, we settled" or "no, we didn't settle".

     

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