USSF President Candidates

There is a huge difference with working with and controlling it like MLS controls the USSF.

SUM owns the marketing rights to the USMNT and USWNT and all things that need USSF approval.

When the entity is controlled by the people it is suppose to govern, it is a conflict of interest.

 

MLS controls USSF? Lol ok, im done.

 

You realize I've interviewed all these guys too, right? On top of a lot of communication that was NOT in the podcast.

(Except Carter and Cordeiro, neither of whom I've ever met.)

 

But US Club has a National Cup and National Championship on back-to-back weekends.

Also -- does USYS do the Disney Showcases? Or does Disney?

Other showcases are run by individual clubs -- say, the Jefferson Cup by the Richmond Strikers, which play in US Club's Virginia NPL.

USYS itself seems fairly straightforward as far as I can tell. They have State Cups feeding into Region I/II/III/IV and then the National Championship. They also have regional leagues and a National League, which can also qualify you for that National Championship.

 

Keep on believing it. This isn't a conspiracy. It takes about a minute on Google.

We will start with the Wiki page and it's reference.

 

Take it with a grain of salt since it's based on his Twitter feed and TV presence, but this has always been my impression of Wynalda -- sounds interesting in short bursts, but details, commitment, ..., are lacking. At one point he seemed to be campaigning to be made the manager of this team or that without, best I can tell, ever having put in any time as an assistant anywhere or any other real work of the kind you'd expect. And when he was given chances, he didn't appear to be committed to doing it as a full-time job (Silverbacks and some kind of semipro team, I think?).

Comment by Volk on the current landscape of youth soccer being a confusing mess is, based on my experience, on the money. I don't know enough to know who has the better model, but figuring out what kind of path your child needs to take if they want to play beyond high school (and knowing the DA is not an option, geographically or, likely, on talent) is a serious challenge. I don't really expect the next USSF president to fix that, but it would be nice if there was some kind of direction (and I do think the DA is starting to show something that looks like results on the boys' side, enough that I certainly wouldn't want to blow that up).

 

Yep. That's what I've been writing about.

I know a club that moved into the Boys ECNL for "challenging competition." A lot of families looked at the travel requirements and quit. They're not buying it.

 

interesting podcast on the Top Drawer soccer Show called the Pros and Cons of the development Academy. It has a lengthy discussion about the Presidential candidates all "ripping" on the development academy. Some interesting discussion about development academy probably more about the development academy history than the candidates. At one point they discuss that the candidates seem to be more jumping on the bandwagon of bashing the Development academy than anybody actually having tangible Ideas. (the forum was run by US Youth soccer) To me it makes me think these candidates don't really understand the Youth soccer landscape and just are throwing out buzzwords.

It goes back and forth between discussion about the development academy and candidates positions, but overall is quite interesting.

 

The ideas most of them share:

1. Let the kids play high school soccer so they're not joyless robots.

2. Revamp ODP to find kids in non-Academy areas.

 

WARNING: Ranting below. I apologize in advance for what is a mix of fact and opinion, touching a number of topics some of which completely irrelevant to this forum.


Who says players who don't play high school soccer are "joyless robots"? If a player doesn't find joy in soccer then questions can be asked about their club environment, but that's on the club not the competition platform, and certainly not on US Soccer. Everyone wants to blame the DA for it's mandates against HS soccer, but this is what so few people seem to understand: The DA was created for serious players who WANT to remain in their club for 10 months, train 4 days/play 1 match per week, have their regional and national showcase events, work with licensed professional coaches, etc. Why did the DA structure their program this way? Because it emulates the environment of professional youth academies all over the world, or as closely as we can in our culture. If a player isn't interested in that type of program, DON'T PLAY IN THE DA! There's a number of other competition platforms and clubs that cater to players who want to play HS. Players get recruited to good schools (and some beyond) out of Boy's ECNL, USYS National League, etc.. US Soccer isn't forcing anyone to play in the DA, nor is it forcing clubs outside the DA to abide by DA mandates. It's the player/families choice as to what is right for them.

Why re-vamp ODP? First off: what is ODP?

1) Is it an elite training program? Sorry, but no. You're telling me that training w ODP for 4.5-6hrs a month is going to make an elite player? Now, if a player is at a small club who doesn't train frequently and has non-professional coaches this might be a step up, but this is NOT elite and will have minimal impact on the players long-term development. What will impact the players development the most? Frequency. A program with professional coaches working 4 days of training a week for 10 months. (Of course, this also depends on the individual clubs environment, even in the DA some are better than others)

2) Is it a player ID platform? Hardly. USYS/state associations run ODP, and have no part in the youth national team selection process. The only way a player is ID'd for a YNT is if a coach or scout from US Soccer (different entity) selects them. This means that unless theres a YNT coach or scout involved in ODP, no player will be identified. Instead, US Soccer hosts National Training Centers all over the country for both DA and non-DA players to be evaluated directly by US Soccer staff. Oh, and got a problem with pay-to-play? ODP has fees, NTC's are free. Not the solution to that problem but a step in the right direction.

3) Is it an elite competition platform? How can it be? How many formal matches to they actually play? Hell, state ODP teams participate in club tournaments all the time and lose to middle of the road club teams. Why? because ODP is open to any and all level of player who signs up and the training cycle is not frequent enough to impact player or team development. And let's not even get into the level of coaching...

Why even continue with ODP? Why not just invest more into the NTC's, host them more frequently and in more markets??

Back to the election. Here's my question: how many of these candidates have any high-level youth coaching background/experience? Even those that have youth playing backgrounds were pre-DA, so really the only practical experiences any of them have is what they experienced as a youth player over 20 years ago. "Well back then we had better National Teams." Wrong. Our NT's are as good or better now, but the global game has changed. The rest of the world was busy innovating and evolving. We're still whining about birth year and the mandating of the number of players on the field while other countries are completely changing almost everything about their development pathway. Playing 2v2 at U8? If we did that people would riot in the streets! Not playing 11v11 until U14? Pants would be shat! (Both recent Belgian federation mandates)

End of the day, none of these candidate have any credibility in youth soccer. All these "discussions" are irrelevant and, if anything, just a weak attempt at fishing for votes. It's like 2016 all over again! lol

 

I hear the robot argument all the time and have wondered what exactly US soccer is forcing DA clubs to do. The only thing I know of is that they mandate 4-3-3 formation. What else are they forcing the players to do at an individual level that takes away creativity?
As far as ODP I completely agree with adifferentperspective except I'll also add The US Youth Soccer version is a gravy train for the state Youth Soccer Associations. Almost inevitably if people mention ODP they are talking about the US Youth Soccer version but ID2, PDP and US Soccer Training Centers are also ODP's and guess what... they are free. Anybody want to bet if you asked the candidates who runs ODP they would all say US Soccer federation even though they are actually talking about the US youth soccer version from 10-20 years ago?

 

There may be a bit of nostalgia when Solo and Caligiuri talk about ODP. But Solo in particular says she never would have advanced to the national team without it.

Cordeiro, for the record, floated the idea of making ODP free.

I can't help wondering if there's a subconscious bit of "Das Reboot" here. The DFB put in a program that sounds a bit like ODP except, you know, more successful.

The NTCs sound good, but how many of those are there?

 

Actually the DA doesn't mandate a formation/system of play.

First, let's clarify:

- National Training Centers (NTC) = run by US Soccer, free program for the player, generally paid for by hosting clubs and minimally financed by US Soccer.

- Olympic Development Program (ODP) = run by USYS, paid for by the player, sanctioned but not directly run by US Soccer.

- id2 & PDP = run by US Club Soccer, free program, sanctioned but not directly run by US Soccer, paid for with revenue generated thru their events/player and club registration fees.

We're talking the US Soccer Presidential election. USYS and US Club are completely separate entities governed by their own Presidents and Boards. Yes, these entities are sanctioned by US Soccer, but US Soccer is not directly involved in the leadership and therefore decision-making processes/programming. The only thing US Soccer can do is strongly suggest changes to these programs or threaten to revoke their sanctioning. So unless these entities are willing to play ball, this process could take years (which it likely would since US Soccer would have to find a way to cover the costs/revenue generate to USYS).

Cordeiro says he wants to make ODP free...this just goes to show how little he knows about US Soccer and the youth soccer landscape. The entity he's running for the Presidency of already offers these NTC's for free!! LOL

When Hope Solo was a youth player (pre 1999!!) ODP was still a relevant platform. US Club Soccer, and its programs, were still just an idea. US Soccer didn't operate their own platforms for either player ID or competition (unlike any other federation on the planet). Let's not forget: this is almost 20 years ago! Let's take the game of soccer back 20 years in this country, that should find us more success!! LOL

Now here's something we both agree on: There needs to be more NTC's. More both in frequency and in markets. Here's the kicker though: US Soccer uses local clubs facilities/resources to run these NTCs. So the truth is there is actually still costs to run, but their eaten by the hosting clubs. The only US Soccer expenses are for sending scouts (paid per diem) and Regional Technical Directors (one responsibility of a salaried position). How do I know this? I've scouted at these NTC's and work for a club that has hosted them. The solution: the US Soccer President has the power to create room in the budget to cover expenses of these NTC's in full, which would allow them to be hosted in more markets where clubs might not have the resources. The US Soccer President has the power to recruit/educate more scouts to get eyes on the player and work more of these NTC's.

Lets also keep in mind that at all of this is under the umbrella of PLAYER IDENTIFICATION. This is not PLAYER DEVELOPMENT. Just wanted to make that clear.

 

Can NTCs reasonably do what ODP has historically done?

(And ultimately, do the letters really matter? Do the letters "ODP" open up any resources from the USOC that USSF wouldn't want to leave on the table?)

 

I wish I had a better sense (and some way of measuring) whether ODP is really effective at what it claims to do (as well as benefiting players who participate but aren't chosen). And I mean that both from the perspective of what's good for the pro game in the US/national team and from perspective of a parent trying to figure out what's best for my 12-year-old who has some talent but almost certainly isn't going to make a living playing soccer.

I've seen people on BS call ODP everything from a waste of time and money to worthwhile provided you feel like your child is among the top X (30 or 40 or 50) in your state. I also know parents here in Illinois who go to great lengths to put their kids through the program each year (both the downstate practices and the separate schedule of Chicago-area practices) whether their child has a real shot at being selected or not, insisting they think those practices and having to compete with the other kids (especially the larger Chicago player pool, since we're downstate) is well worth it for their kids.

From the name alone it seems like an antiquated concept, but is it really any different than what would happen with training centers in every state (or scattered across the US)?

 

As a parent of child who has participated in ODP for two years (this being year two), here's what I like and don't like about it...

Cons
* The cost vs involvement. There's a fee to simply try out (selected or not), then a fee if you're selected to the squad, then a fee if you're selected to the team and go to the subregional camp. If you're selected to the squad that goes to the inter-regional in Memphis, you need to provide transportation and of course pay for lodging & meals.
* I don't think there's enough training. There are 5 training sessions between November and February. There is one more training session for "finalists" before they name the squad that goes to camp. The training sessions are 90 minutes long.

Pros
* I do think you (the players) see a faster paced game. More time on the ball is never a bad thing, and I do think the coaches are better than most. We have been fortunate in my son's career that 3/4 of his club coaches have been ODP coaches, but if someone hasn't had that, being exposed to that quality of coaching can be a benefit.
* I think the interregional playdate and the regional camp are beneficial to see (and play with) even higher level kids.

Improvements
Make ODP a true "year round" activity. At least here, once your not selected to the next stage (state team, region squad, etc), you're done. So if you make the original selection, you might only get five 90 minute training sessions and then you're done. Have some inter-regional events in June, July, and August. High schools and clubs should treat it like pro teams treat international duties. Have like a four day event, Thursday: Travel & light training, Friday, Saturday, & Sunday, games against other states with study sessions in the evening (film work, walk throughs, footskills, etc). If you can get 5-6 ODP squads together on a weekend, it can be treated as a showcase for both college coaches and US YNT scouts.

 

I only have familiarity with Illinois, but I believe NTC's have surpassed what ODP historically did. They are monthly year round training sessions. About half the session is actual training other half scrimmage. A few years ago it was mostly "neutral" coaches (college coaches and USSF personnel) I have heard it is more club coach run recently. From my experience it has more of the top players than ODP, And to re-iterate : It is Free to players

As adifferentperspective mentioned there needs to be more NTC's. When My child went through it the kids were mostly Chicago Suburbs with (very) few from Wisconsin (southern) and Indiana (Northern). Not sure if this technically covered Illinois, Wisconsin, and Indiana as a whole, but only kids closest to Chicago market were seen/invited? To me what USSF needs to do is have more NTC's and provide funding to NTC's. Also add a bit more training vs. ID; both ODP and NTC's are more about identification than training. What it does not have are "showcase" type events, but honestly that is what clubs are for....

 

ODP is run by the State Associations and therefore it is very different depending upon the state. In Cal South, for instance, Nike sponsors a Pro+ program that doubles as its ODP program. They have ODP scouts at the State Cup tournaments and they select about 100 kids who are invited to the "pool" in the Spring. If they survive the two cutdowns, they get invited to a residential camp, and then there is a winter pool that is mostly the kids from the camp plus some more who have been scouted during league season and invited, at which point a team is selected for regionals in Arizona. There is a cost for these things, but it is really nominal (like a $125 fee for the 5 day trip to Arizona, which covers transportation, hotels, meals, coaching, uniforms etc). Lots of kids who aren't near a DA or who can't afford the high fee DAs stay in the pool, which, combined with the fact that the population base in SoCal is large, means their teams are generally pretty good. I think all 10 teams got to the semifinals in the latest ODP regionals and 6 won their age groups. Coaches are generally college or HS coaches, rather than club coaches, although there are exceptions.

Does ODP actually help develop kids as opposed to simply help find them? Not sure. As someone else said, playing with strong players certainly is a good thing. It's mostly a lot of scrimmaging in the pool or tryout stage, with more practicing coming into play for the team training camp during the summer. Nevertheless, it's an experience that is worth doing, especially given the relatively lower cost and if you aren't doing DA for other reasons. Kids play different positions sometimes, coaches have different philosophies, the team camps and regional tournaments are run like mini-USYNT operations, with trainers, separate GK coaching at the games, meetings to discuss strategy/watch film etc.

In any event, even if it just found them and helped give them a platform to be seen by others (there are still college coaches and US scouts in these settings, although perhaps not as many as in the pre-DA days), it seems like it might be a worthy supplement to the scouting pipeline. Heck, the MLS DA's have even sent scouts to the pool tryout weekends and spoken to the players, so they recognize that they aren't seeing everyone and this is a way to find out if players have slipped through the cracks. The key is probably to bring down the cost, so that it serves that role for a broader segment of the population.

 

Here is a link to the NTC schedules.
http://www.ussoccerda.com/calendar-training-centers
They are definitely used for identifying, not training. As you can see most locations only have 1-2 a year(if any) per age group. That said, they invite only(definitely see a 'preference' for DA kids in areas with large DA populations--the last one my child attended only had a couple non DA kids--and I don't believe that is based on skill, much more based on who has been seen. The couple non DA kids are well-known quantities) and the level is high. I have been told by local US Scouts that there is zero reason to do ODP if your child is being invited to NTC's UNLESS you are from a region that doesn't have many high-quality kids or coaches and just want your kid to have the opportunity to play with that level. The vast majority of the scouting is done at DA events these days anyway.

 

Still curious as to what ODP ever really accomplished...even before the DA and NTC's, more players were identified for YNT's thru elite competition platforms which at the time were Red Bull National League, Super-Y, Dallas Cup, National Finals and other elite tournaments. Again, it's a matter of resources: why send a scout to watch a pool of 30 players at the state ODP level when they can go to an event and see 30+ TEAMS? Even the inter-regional events generally only have 4 teams at any given age.

Say what you want about the level of coaches being better, it's a relative statement based on the level of the club coaches you've experienced. But in my state there's still guys that are part-time coaches working at park district-affiliated travel teams working state ODP. Guys that have never worked at an elite level who don't even know what a top level player looks like. That said, if you're only experience is around poor coaches these kind of guys might look like Pep Guardiola!

All NTC's are run by US Soccer scouts or Regional Technical Directors. So the decisions on players invited, training content, team selection for the scrimmages, and YNT selections come from them only. As NTC's have grown in size and frequency, and due to their relatively small pool of scouts in some regions, they've begun to reach out to local DA's to assist. It's recommended that these DA clubs send any coaches in the Academy Apprentice Coaches program to further their development (i.e. - understand the scouting processes, see the level of play, etc.). If there's a coach outside the DA that might be identified by the Regional Technical Director they may also be invited to assist, but it's less common.

From a training and player development perspective, US Soccer knows that NTC's have a minimal impact on the player's long-term development. Comes down to simple math: Attend a 90min NTC once a month and thats only 18hrs/year and most of that is scrimmaging. In the club environment, going 4x/week at 90min per for 10months, there's potentially 240hrs/year or more. So realistically who's responsible for the player development? The club.



The Election: Pay-to-Play is hot ticket in the youth soccer realm. Everyone's looking to the President of US Soccer to tackle this and (semi) rightfully so. But maybe we should look at the club's first, especially if its a non-DA club. Why is soccer so expensive? Tournaments, for one, are a huge expense. Why do many clubs go to tournaments that cost $1500+ just to play in, many of which involving significant travel costs on top of that? Trophies, prestige, GotSoccer points and rankings (and college exposure, more below). So ask the question: are you paying for better, more frequent training that will benefit the player's development or GotSoccer points? End of the day for a non-DA club this is all the decision of that club to put together this programming structure, NOT US SOCCER. Here's another piece to think about: If your full-time professional club coach is driving around in a Mercedes and living in a $800k house, your club has less than 2000 members, and your fees are thousands of dollars a year, thats a huge red flag. In most soccer-affluent countries being a youth coach isn't a glamorous life, which is why you find so many foreign coaches here in the US. You'll find more upper-class youth soccer coaches in this country than anywhere else in the world producing more mediocre players than ever, and even those that do a good job don't even get solidarity payment or any form of compensation for producing a professional like everyone else in the world! Again, this is not US Soccer setting the price point, its the decisions of the clubs.

Now, you also have to understand what you're asking for when you say "eliminate pay-to-play". Every player on this planet operates under pay-to-play because every practice and match comes with expense, from grassroots to pros. Refs gonna pay themselves? Fields going to mow themselves? Jerseys gonna grow on trees? The question is who's gonna pay for it. The MLS club in my market did their math and know it costs a minimum of $12k to fully sponsor a player in their youth academy for one year. If they have a full academy, thats 16-20 players on 6 teams. Do that math. That's over $1.2million dollars. These costs don't come from US Soccer by way of the DA. The vast majority of costs come from travel and uniforms and facilities and equipment. Do you think US Soccer can control the costs of travel, uniforms, facilities, etc.? All they can control is the costs of their programming and they've already taken steps. NTC's are free. The DA is essentially free with the only direct payment to US Soccer being the $50 player registration fee. The problem is the $12k/player due to costs that don't even go to US Soccer. Think about it: $1.2mil for every DA, there's 197 DA's and easily 100 more that want in. You think US Soccer can pay for that? Not sure what kind of business you think this is...but potentially $240million/year? I'm not saying it can't be done or US Soccer shouldn't even try to help, but damn....

Back to costs associated with the college recruitment process, namely showcase tournaments. After speaking to a friend I was told about a club in my area that has taken a very different approach, so I did some digging and hour-plus long phone call really opened my eyes. Instead of lining up a showcase-heavy schedule ($$$) for all teams U15 and up, this club hired an experienced, reputable, knowledgable coach to NOT COACH ANY TEAMS! As a part-time employee this guy basically acts like an agent. Using feedback from coaches and attending some programming he gets to know the level of the players U15 and up. He then offers to sit down with each player and gets a list of schools they're interested in, also offer realistic advice about appropriate levels and insight into what schools might be the right/wrong fit academically (some may decline the offer, but its up to the member). Once the list is narrowed down he advises the player tor reach out to each school's coach expressing the players interest and provide a programming schedule for the coach to potentially attend. Some fire back with ID camp invites, others have sent assistants to matches or events to see the players in-person, a few have even attended trainings. Speaking about the results so far, apparently a significant number of players have received positive feedback from schools that the players themselves expressed interest in. It's completely backwards from the popular model of throwing teams in front of scouts at a showcase and fishing for interest, but it makes sense in a way. Now, they also attend a showcase event to potentially stir up interest from schools the players may not have spoken to, so it's not as though there's no surprises. But think about it: if a club were to up its tuition only $30 per player, and say it has 500 members, thats a $15k part-time salary for a much more in-depth and targeted player college recruitment process as opposed to a travel-laden showcase schedule that costs hundreds of dollars (if not more) per player overall for essentially a shot-in-the-dark. Not saying it's right or wrong or it's the answer to all soccer problems, but I think it's great that they're trying to innovate and personally I think it's a brilliant idea in theory.

Again, I apologize for wasting anyone time who read all this ranting. Some of this certainly doesn't belong in this tread, but the conversation just got me going. Cheers!

 

Many good points here good and bad.

As a coach and former ODP player I think the current system offers many good opportunities. Everyone knows that because of the DA not all of the best players will be doing ODP but it gives the next level of player an opportunity to come out and get exposure to players and coaches that are of a high standard and are passionate about the game and wanting to do extra which creates a great environment at many age groups. The program may not have the level of player it had when I was growing up but the usefulness is still there for sure.

ODP going year round would be nice but not feasible. Being able to find weekdays/weekends to train more or play friendlies would be impossible due to club commitments from players and coaches (many of our players already push the boundaries on number of games played in a season). Winter for us makes the most sense due to weather and not competing in games/traveling to train and form a team. The biggest issue is the summer events where players are invited to compete and then have to pull out last minute which leaves teams scrambling/calling alternates at the last minute. The timing of many events is hard because of showcases, regionals, nationals, etc. Throw in vacations (players have to have some time off, right?) and it can be really hard to get your TOP players together for any one event no matter how much lead time you give parent's to make preparation.

As much as people want to say that the program is a money maker, I fully believe that it is not. Our state does a good job of making sure the players get adequate training (level of coaches, number of training's/events, and space to practice) for the money parents spend. Certain states do WAY less than mine. Could the program do things differently, yes of course but overall at this moment they're doing what they can to be successful and set themselves apart.

 

Not sure I quoted things right in above post but anything in BOLD is me. New to the forum/posting.