USMNT: The Post-Mortem Thread

Discussion in 'Columbus Crew' started by KCbus, Oct 12, 2017.

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  1. Rick O'Shea

    Rick O'Shea Member

    Aug 19, 2008
    Planning for the future, I would have thought that the time has come to give USA and Canadian youth an opportunity to progress more fully in the future. If MLS made it mandatory for each club in the next season to have at least one USA or Canadian playing in the first team every game, increasing to 5 over the next 5 years, this would create a solid base for future NT's. MLS would then be in a position to concentrate on signing quality players from abroad to continue improving the quality of play and at the same time have less reliance on foreign players to keep up the numbers.
     
  2. Dan Milton

    Dan Milton Member

    Nov 25, 1998
    How many players on the Crew roster would be eligible to play for team USA If called upon?
     
  3. TKyle

    TKyle Moderator
    Staff Member

    Columbus Crew
    United States
    Dec 28, 2014
    Nordecke’s Porch
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I do believe other federations have similar regulations for their domestic leagues.
    Increasing the requirement slowly will allow clubs to adjust and adapt.
     
  4. TKyle

    TKyle Moderator
    Staff Member

    Columbus Crew
    United States
    Dec 28, 2014
    Nordecke’s Porch
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I believe Trapp, Steffen, Williams, Jahn, Jimenez, Crognale.
    Others?
     
  5. Placid Casual

    Placid Casual Member+

    Apr 2, 2004
    Bentley's Roof

    Well that plan is a lawsuit waiting to happen.
     
  6. Minnman

    Minnman Member+

    Feb 11, 2000
    Columbus, OH, USA
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Why would MLS want to do such a thing? I mean, what advantage (to MLS) would it have over what the league is doing now?
     
  7. KCbus

    KCbus Moderator
    Staff Member

    United States
    Nov 26, 2000
    Reynoldsburg, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Agreed.

    I mean everyone's losing their minds over the USMNT not qualifying -- and rightfully so. But a lot of what I'm hearing in the aftermath about salary caps and promotion/relegation and whatever else seem to imply that it's MLS' job to solve it. It's not.

    MLS' job is to do what's in the best interest of MLS.
     
  8. stanger

    stanger BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 29, 2008
    Columbus
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The MLS has nothing to do with the f'ed up youth soccer system in this country, although the Academy programs need to find a way to live with NCAA regulations.

    MLS doesn't have much to do with anything, really.
     
  9. MLSinCleveland

    MLSinCleveland Member+

    Oct 12, 2006
    Cleveland, Ohio
    Club:
    Cleveland C. S.
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Can MLS legally distinguish between citizens and Green Card holders (or citizens cap tied to another country's NT)? Seems like a violation of equal employment opportunity laws.
     
  10. puttputtfc

    puttputtfc Member+

    Sep 7, 1999
    Why is it not a two way street? Klinsmann was bashed for his opinions on MLS even though there was some validity in his views.
     
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  11. puttputtfc

    puttputtfc Member+

    Sep 7, 1999
    I guess we're about to see what effect missing a WC will have on MLS.
     
  12. Kyle Crew

    Kyle Crew Member+

    Feb 23, 2013
    Columbus, Ohio
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We already have a limit on foreigners allowed in each team (green card holders excluded). Quite a few countries already do something similar:

    Turkey: Used to be that teams could only play 5 foreigners at a time, with 3 on the bench. That rule was abolished a couple years back.

    Mexico: 8 players born in Mexico must be in the matchday squad.

    England: Teams must have 8 English or 'homegrown' players in the 25 man squad.

    China: Only 3 foreigners allowed per club.

    Really, I don't think these rules do anything. England isn't any better. Turkey is much worse than in 2002. China... who cares. Mexico has always been good.

    Clubs in MLS should hire coaches who like giving youth players a chance. Oscar Pareja at Dallas (and formerly Colorado) comes to mind, also Biello at Montreal, Mike Petke at RSL, and to a somewhat lesser extent Greg Vanney at TFC. Forcing clubs to gather American players, regardless of talent, just so they can have the requisite amount of domestic players in not only counterproductive, but sends the transfer values of said players way out of whack (look at English players values, same thing happened in Turkey).
     
  13. Placid Casual

    Placid Casual Member+

    Apr 2, 2004
    Bentley's Roof
    No idea about the rest but you have this wrong.
     
  14. Dan Milton

    Dan Milton Member

    Nov 25, 1998
    It would be nice if Steffen could grow to become a National team member but the majority of the others,I don't think so!
     
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  15. Kyle Crew

    Kyle Crew Member+

    Feb 23, 2013
    Columbus, Ohio
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Steffen has a very good chance of getting a look and serious consideration in the next year or two. Let's be real:

    Guzan is OK with the occasional world-class game.

    Hamid is a great shot stopper, but is full of errors, and IMO going to Europe will be a giant step back for him unless he goes somewhere he knows he will play (which will be a second or third tier league I think, like Denmark or Austria).

    Guys like Melia, Robles, and Rimando are already in their 30's, no thanks (as is Guzan BTW, but I'll deal with him for a year or two if need be).

    Guys I wanna see:

    Steffen.

    Ethan Horvath is the starter at Club Brugge in Belgium, currently 1st in the league. Dear lord someone please call him up.

    Jesse Gonzalez at Dallas. More of a project than Horvath or Steffen, but loads of potential.

    All 3 of these guys are only 22 years old, all are starters.

    Guzan can start for a bit, but I see no reason Horvath shouldn't be #2 right now. Only foreign based GK we have, and he starts for a team in a decent league that's in 1st place. #3 should be a young guy, take your pick between Steffen and Gonzalez, I'd go Steffen (he's further along than Gonzalez IMO, plus a better pure shot stopper).
     
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  16. TKyle

    TKyle Moderator
    Staff Member

    Columbus Crew
    United States
    Dec 28, 2014
    Nordecke’s Porch
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't pretend to know all the inner workings of MLS and their crazy allocation/DP/homegrown player rules. My hat is off to those of you that do (Kyle Crew, MLS in Cleveland, and others.)
    But there has to be a way you can incentivize MLS clubs for developing American (or Canadian) talent.
    If a club develops a talented player and they get sold to a team in Europe, what happens? (Honestly; I don't know.[emoji17] I thought MLS got the money). If the club got the money, they have an incentive to develop American (or Canadian) talent and can do whatever the hell they want with the money--player salaries, more investment in their youth program. Maybe put a roof on their stadium![emoji16]
     
  17. TKyle

    TKyle Moderator
    Staff Member

    Columbus Crew
    United States
    Dec 28, 2014
    Nordecke’s Porch
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Pro/rel can't and won't happen in MLS. Period.
     
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  18. KHT_Crew

    KHT_Crew Member+

    Mar 29, 2003
    Queen City, OH
    MLS doesn't know all of their own inner workings either so don't feel bad.
     
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  19. TKyle

    TKyle Moderator
    Staff Member

    Columbus Crew
    United States
    Dec 28, 2014
    Nordecke’s Porch
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I wonder if we even keep Guzan in the picture. I guess he could mentor the 22 yr olds; he'll be 35 at the next Gold Cup.
    I'd be ok working with Horvath, Steffen, and Gonzalez.
    As long as they follow in the footsteps of previous great American keepers like Keller, Friedel, and Howard and shave their heads. The tradition and mark of great American keepers!
     
  20. Kyle Crew

    Kyle Crew Member+

    Feb 23, 2013
    Columbus, Ohio
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #70 Kyle Crew, Oct 13, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2017
    Anyone transferred abroad, transfer fee is divided 66.7% to club, 33.3% to MLS.

    Any homegrown transferred abroad, transfer fee is divided 75% to club, 25% to MLS.

    Garber has recently discussed either increasing the cut of transfer fees going to clubs, or getting rid of the rule altogether. These are just ideas at the moment, the whole Dwyer to Orlando for $1.3 or $1.6 million in allocation or whatever it was, along with other moves (Molino to Minnesota for $600k, Dax to Chicago for $400k, Finlay to Minnesota for something like $400k-$500k) has made the league rethink things, as teams can get more value selling a player within the league for a smaller fee than selling him abroad for more cash (exactly SKC's reasoning for the move).

    As far as spending fees, only a certain amount can go towards allocation (like $500k or $600k). Besides, more money doesn't necessarily equal better results. At the moment, with clubs not getting 100% of the fee, and some deciding to leave before turning pro (like McKinnie did, leaving Dallas for Schalke).
     
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  21. Kyle Crew

    Kyle Crew Member+

    Feb 23, 2013
    Columbus, Ohio
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No, Guzan will be 37 turning 38 just after the WC.
     
  22. POdinCowtown

    POdinCowtown Member+

    Jan 15, 2002
    Columbus
    Not really. Limiting the number of non citizens on the field isn't much different legally from limiting the number on the roster. Some players have guaranteed payment contracts but I doubt any have guaranteed playing time deals. Standard athletic contracts give management great leeway in things like playing time or position.
     
  23. puttputtfc

    puttputtfc Member+

    Sep 7, 1999
    Why can't it happen?
     
  24. Kyle Crew

    Kyle Crew Member+

    Feb 23, 2013
    Columbus, Ohio
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    $$$
     
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  25. TKyle

    TKyle Moderator
    Staff Member

    Columbus Crew
    United States
    Dec 28, 2014
    Nordecke’s Porch
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Per Wikipedia:
    Instead of operating as an association of independently owned teams, MLS is a single entity in which each team is owned and controlled by the league's investors.[14] The investor-operators control their teams as owners control teams in other leagues, and are commonly (but inaccurately) referred to as the team's owners.[15] The league has a fixed membership, like most sports leagues in the United States and Canada, which makes it one of the world's few soccer leagues that does not use promotion and relegation, a practice that is uncommon in the two countries.[16]

    An investor-operator is not going to stand for having "his (or her, or their) club" play in a "lower division", which would negatively impact the club's attendance, broadcast rights, or sponsorships. $$$
    Personally, I'd like to see it. But I can't see how it would happen.
     
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