I think most agree that we need a new generation of players. Most of our older players are on the decline and didn't get the job done for the 2018 cycle. And we do have a lot of promising young players on the rise. So I think for the most part I support Sarachan's young experimental lineups and omitting of veterans. But come the Gold Cup and qualifying...I completely agree with you. There is no reason to artificially have a cutoff based on age in 2022. The criteria should be who will help you win games now. Besides, even if a player ends up declining because of age before 2022, that doesn't mean they can't help us qualify. We had a lot of guys help us qualify in 2014 that didn't end up making the final roster. Bocanegra, Goodson, Gomez, EJ, etc. Incorporate youth in friendlies, but play your best squad in games that matter. This cycle, I'm confident that will involve a lot of youth. But there will be older vets there too and there's nothing wrong with that.
I also think that there are players in that 25-30+ range who have not - or were not - included under previous coaches who can be good players internationally. To me, it's not JK/Arena's vets or young players....its all players who might be young enough to do well in a WC. I'm not co-signing JK's or Arena's (largely similar to Jk's) assessments of the talent pool when I say that there shouldnt be an arbitrarily young cutoff for official matches.
I think that makes sense. Any guys that jump off the top of your head that might be in that age range that haven't been included yet?
When we have a 33 yr old player starting for Real Madrid, we will call him in. I'm certain of that. Otherwise, I think that is kind of an outlier. There must be millions of other 33 yr olds who were not in the running for Player of the Year though. What does that tell you?
If there is an arbitrary cut off, and I doubt there is or will be, it would only be put in place to offset the incredible over dependence on the value of "Experience" in US Soccer coaching and punditry. "That player doesn't have enough experience", "we need veterans with experience", "the team has to have experienced players". You can't go 5 minutes without hearing pundits talk or write about the overwhelming need for experience. MLS coaches and GMs would always prefer to sign an "experienced" player from overseas than ever let an American player get experience by playing. How much experience did we have on the field in Couva? I would say we had an overwhelming amount of experience. The entire Hex we had plenty of experience but not much actual talent. We were so enamored and confident in our overwhelming experience, neither coach and nobody in the media, ever took a look at the actual play of the team.
I find the idea that there are players barely registering in MLS or the Championship or wherever, age 25-30, that would then be great international players to be a funny one. Are there any examples recently? I guess 20 years ago, it might have been possible as there was probably much less information in general on players and probably much less scouting outside of federations. You can get every touch videos of just about every player in the world for every game that player plays. The idea that there is a 27 yr old in MLS who not only slipped through the USMNT's grasp (that I might buy), but every other MLS team, and every other club team in the world is hard to fathom. Plus, where is this players local fans on these boards or other media saying what a gem we have all missed? I'm not saying the USMNT bar is incredibly high at the moment. But I do think players that are or would be real difference makers tend to stand out in MLS. I think a 25-30 yr old like Nagbe is a fringe USMNT player who has certainly had more than his share of chances, but where is the other 25-30 year old player that is as good or better than him that hasn't been in multiple camps?
well most of the players that I'm most curious about are in europe. i guess that kinda undermines my previous point but there arent a whole lot of players 25+ in MLS that are us-eligible and havent had a decent chance yet. off the top of my head, i'd say players that are older but I would still include or be curious about are: picault, nguyen (i know hes pretty old but his skills are kinda rare in the pool), agudelo, tim melia, opara, maybe a hairston...or a farrell there arent that many. but 1. the % of americans playing in MLS is seemingly decreasing over time....especially if you look at the team of the week....there were only 2 americans on it this week so....to me, as MLS has improved, merely playing in MLS should put a player on the radar...so there might be some players like aaron long who are older but emerge in MLS in the next couple seasons..... 2. i would like to see a "blank slate" by a new coach...i don't like the idea of eliminating players based on age who were passed over by another coach and are still young enough to be good internationals....or eliminating players b/c a previous regime didn't rate them.
its not about players that havent played at all for the usmnt. its about not taking the previous regimes' player rankings and assessments as the gospel. yeah, you're right...they arent many players 25+ who have had NO USMNT involvement who are going to be huge international players.... but I do think players like picault or morales or lleteget or even older guys like opara, nguyen or melia etc could still be helpful to the national team despite being older. i just would like to see a clean slate put in place by whoever is the new coach and maybe they would rate players a lot differently than the previous coaches.....and find some players who most wouldnt consider based off of what JK and Arena and Sarachan did.
I totally agree a fresh look will be useful. Which is why the incredibly long search is so annoying. If it is an MLS coach, and I don't know why we waited for that, then at least one that is humble about the league. I feel that Arena thought MLS was just below the EPL around the quality of Ligue 1 or maybe even the Bundesliga outside of a few teams. That the coaches and players were certainly on par with anything in Europe. His infamous, "we have guys in MLS that play that position [so why would we look at him]" quote the most obvious. Bob Bradley also said similar when he said he was as good a coach as Pep he has just never had the payroll. It is a mindset that infects many in USSF, MLS, and US Coaching and Scouting. I do think the team kind of picks itself right now and the lineup versus France and Brazil is pretty close to whatever the new coach will start with. I highly doubt any coach will take any information Sarachan gives him as anything but noise. He will listen to Stewart, only because Stewart will hire someone that wants to work with him. I would hope the new coach will not need a "Lone 6 in the mold of Michael Bradley" to play just about every minute.
I am sure that we will see a few players brought back by the next coach, that will be valuable in this cycle. Counting just players who played WCQs, under Klinsmann we saw: Beckerman, Castillo, Orozco, Torres, Parkhurst, Cameron, Brad Evans, Beasley, and Brad Davis all brought back into the pool after long absences under the previous coach. 4 of those retreads actually made WC2014.
Was Ronaldo running for player of the year? What was the average age for those that were nominated for player of the year. I mean millions of 20 year olds were not running for player of the year right?
No Alex Mendez. Shows what a dumb exercise this is. Especially for someone that only follows the senior USMNT and MLS. No Ledezma, no Richards, nobody from the current U20 squad, who will be 23-24 in 2022. No Booth, Hoffman, anyone other than the current roster and some older MLS lifers.
After almost half the season is over, I've cooled down significantly on Green. Most of the time he's rather anonymous, and as the guy playing in the hole behind one or two strikers, you'd expect him to have decent assist numbers and a few goals. Getting close to 1,000 minutes with 1 goal and 2 assists. Making one crucial pass every other game at the level where he plays is not enough. Having followed him closely this season, I must admit I'm disappointed.
Think of all the time Sarachan spent on Green which could have been spent on Sargent, or Carleton or Parks or Roldan or Ramirez or Zardes or...…..fill one in
Green does seem to be evolving into nothing better than a B/C option as an attacking midfielder/Forward. He'll be in the mix for the same reason Zardes has been in recent years: until we have better options available, the moderate floor he provides will be preferred to the low floor low ceiling, and low floor high ceiling teenagers we have. I am looking forward to the arrival of the talented kids we've got bubbling up. We badly need them to kick guys like Zardes, and Green entirely to the curb permanently, but at least for now, it looks like that won't be happening until late '19 or 2020 and thats if a lot goes right. I suspect both of those guys will continue to see some call ups sporadically during 2019 and it's unfortunate we're in that situation.
Green has 4 goals in 8.3 games worth of minutes for the US. This includes goals against Belgium and France. He is having an underwhelming club career but this isn't the Yanks Abroad Forum. Zardes scored 19 goals this MLS season. He also has a good (goals+assists)/90 record for the US.
8.3 games is a small sample size, not representative of his overall play. Unlike his club career, which shows statistically significant mediocrity.
His club play is representative of his club career. His International play has so far been productive, whether or not you believe the sample size is too small. Based on his International play, he merits more opportunities. If he doesn't deliver then he should get fewer opportunities. That's how most industries work: do well, you get more chances. BS logic is different, I know--just saying.
Until last season when he was loaned to Fürth, Green did reasonably well, even garnering a couple of MOTM mentions. It wasn't anything spectacular, mind you, but he was an essential part of their attack in his usual position in the hole behind Reese, where he showed more active than when playing on the left. Up to the summer friendlies and the France game, he was doing ok. Since then, he's not been the same: ineffective both for club and country. He was late for several passes against Brazil, getting subbed early in the second half. He was pretty irrelevant against Mexico, when he replaced an injured McKennie near the end of the first half. And he failed to do anything interesting in his 75' against England. So this is a case where "funk for club" seems to be translating into "funk for country."
Confident about the future generation doing what? Qualifying for World Cups? Yeah sure. Looks like your standard US squad except its younger.. Made up of MLS players with sprinklings of players playing for respectable clubs in Europe. US should always qualify for World Cups though. Confident of winning anything other than a Gold Cup? Hell no.
The US, in general, have has been in an attacking funk for much of the year. Singling out someone who has a good overall record makes little sense.
Most of Green's minutes have been under Sarachan. That means no tactical plan or team cohesion. Any player that looked sub-par under Sarachan might be good and any player that looked good under Sarachan might be a real gem. That just doesn't go for Green. Goes for everyone.