News: USL/TOA discussion thread

I didn't give it a close look, so I don't know how teams in each side are distributed geographically, but that was exactly my thought.

One side take West, and the other side take East. 10-12 teams in each.

That'll be nice.

 

Could also be St Louis Athletic. I believe when they formed the women's team they said Athletica was the feminine of Athletic.

 

I wouldn't say either side is winning from this. A win-win situation would be for both sides to come to some sort of resolution. Anything short of that is a loss for both parties.

I think the USL press release was a lot of spin... I mean come on -- Edmonton, Ottawa... the earliest they would enter the league would be 2011. Baltimore and Detroit are different stories especially if they are talking about Crystal Palace Baltimore and the Michigan Bucks. However, for both of these organizations a jump to USL1 level soccer is going to be a big one (look at what happened to Cleveland). I still think Tampa could go either way. FC NY? Overall, I think USL1 needs to be smart -- there's no need to panic and promote USL2, PDL-Pro teams just to pad the numbers. Although it may not look great having fewer teams than 2009 -- it's not the end of the world by any means.

Obviously, the TOA has an uphill battle. They have solid franchises with Vancouver, Carolina, and Montreal -- but beyond that there's a lot of uncertainty... Minnesota? Miami FC??? Atlanta and St. Louis seem like they can put something together fairly quickly. Luring Tampa away from USL1 could be a small victory, but the Rowdies are not an established team and there still seems to be a lot of uncertainty about that team.

Overall, 2010 is going to be a tough year for minor league soccer. Only the strong will survive...

 

Cooper had copyrights on a few names. SC, AC are the ones I remember.

I don't think Cooper is interested in United as a team name, its just the name of his group.

As the WPS team is Athletica, I would guess AC St. Louis, Athletic St. Louis or St. Louis Athletic as the name of a future TOA/USL/MLS team.

 

Cooper already has a website, which was aimed at getting into MLS.
http://www.stlouissoccerunited.com/

 

I'm also waiting for USL to deliver on these expansion franchises. So far, all they have is a puff-piece press release that says that they have candidates that may or may not ever play in USL1- either next year, in two years or at some far off date.

So, after reading their release, all we know is that "everyone who's part of USL (minus everyone who just left us) is really excited about the USL." Well color me surprised.

 

This is the point where us annoying Portlanders throw out the normal and usual "what should have been obvious" sports apparel war details into the mix.

Also, for those who were querying why we're referring to this as Beaverton and not Portland, there's a very substantial reason for this as well.

USSF: Nike. (Nike- Beaverton)

MLS: adidas. (adidas- Portland)

Nike is hosting this. They may have just sold the USL, but they are still the supplier. Judging from this, they wish to still be the supplier. PERHAPS, just perhaps, they offered some survival tips in the process. Whether they will add other resources, who knows? Heck, for all we know, Nike feels out these guys to see if they'll survive this shitstorm.

OF COURSE MLS gives the TOA a shred of hope. TOA threatens to not be Nike.

Can USSF rise above the national team deal with Nike to give TOA life? A very interesting question indeed.

More to my other point- can the southern TOA folk stop scaring the northern TOA folk with talk of a fall-to-spring season? Does MLS really care, and can they help?

As you can tell, I've decided USL is Tweedle Dee and TOA is Tweedle Dum, although the names can certainly be interchangeable. USL still thinks they have an empire from which they can rule on high (hopefully owners present and Nike there can talk them off the perch that apparently looks like a throne), and TOA can't get out of each other's way (compromise- all teams moved to the Carribbean... or Tennessee). Enjoy the carnage, folks. I dare you.

I had one related thought and one completely unrelated thought...

RELATED- Perhaps there's a natural evolution to two leagues that's only half-realized at present IF the TOA breaks. One is northern and plays a summer schedule. The other is southern and plays a winter schedule. The geography would be curious to say the least, but it might be the most realistic way to successfully bring more markets into the sport at the second level.

UNRELATED- One thing about the MLS2 idea that strikes me as an opportunity for MLS, especially if Montreal and Vancouver want to participate. You cultivate Edmonton and Calgary and Ottawa, then look high and low for two more worthy Canadian cities. Next, if you can get these "other markets" to find impetus for suitable stadia, and if you can find investors willing to approximate the main MLS market price, MLS can spin off a Canadian division into a Canadian league and profit a bit from it... and you open up more American markets that way. Obviously, this isn't the way to bet, but think about incorporating this into your daily mantras.

 

but the thing is the two solid franchises, Vancouver and Montreal will join MLS soon. Then the rest of the teams in TOA will be in limbo.

 

Crystal Palace Baltimore has been mentioning going USL-1 since their inception, and already have some parts in place with their current team and management staff, including the recent selection of a site for their own stadium in Baltimore City. Hopefully they monitored the Cleveland situation in 2009 and learned from the City Stars struggles when they moved up.

Ottawa seems linked to the redevelopment of Landsdowne Park (www.landsdownelive.ca) which has been stalled by ongoing discussion over the make-up of the redevelopment and the Ottawa MLS bid which would have built a soccer stadium outside the city (municipal funds were only available for one or the other, not both). A decision on the redevelopment is being considered in the middle of this month. If the Fury could go from PDL to USL-1 with their managment group intact they could use Ottawa Baseball Stadium (I know, I don't like soccer in a baseball stadium either) or 2000 seat Carleton University Raven's Stadium wth the addition of some temporary seats. The big question would be if the fans who were interested in an MLS bid would back a USL-1 team. They would likely be more inclined if Montreal had stayed.

 

So you all ready know if the USSF has approved the league?

"We" as in people on bigsoccer.

 

Well, there is a little more than that. The comments about Premier Partnerships is new information. Who knows exactly what the relationship actually is. The cynic can say they stopped by and gave a few suggestions that will be ignored. The fanatic can point out the legacy of Randy Bernstein and Alan Rothenberg and the league-wide corporate sponsorships their company will bring.

Reality will likely be somewhere between the two.

Which makes it just a little bit more than a puff piece. As I've said before, exactly how much more we won't know for a few months. Maybe even a few years.

 

If the TOA teams don't breakaway and with the 4 new expansion teams, USL-1 will have 15 teams by 2011

 

USL First Division
Austin Aztex
Carolina RailHawks
Charleston Battery
Cleveland City Stars
Miami FC Blues
Minnesota Thunder
Montreal Impact
Puerto Rico Islanders
Rochester Rhinos
Tampa Bay Rowdies
FC NY
Edmonton
Ottawa
Baltimore
Detroit

Atlanta? Birmingham? St.Louis?

By 2011 if all teams apply USL will equal MLS

 

A partnership in and of itself is completely meaningless. It's what comes out of a partnership that has meaning. So far, they had nothing to announce, so issuing a press release just seems like desperation to change the storyline from "USL is imploding" to "USL has a bright future...maybe...at some point."

They didn't even announce if Tampa is in or out for next year, did they? I would imagine that once they have something to announce, they will, but right now all of it is "hey we had a meeting and some people were there and they all issued bland 'everything is great' quotes."

 

In quantity but not quality........then again MLS doesn't have much quality.......at least not on the pitch.....

 

How do you figure? By 2011 MLS will have 18 teams.

 

maybe the number of MLS teams, but only a few of those clubs will average 10k+ and none of those clubs will average 20k+

So, it won't be equal to MLS, and that is only if the TOA rejoins USL.

Otherwise:
Austin Aztex
Charleston Battery
Cleveland City Stars
Puerto Rico Islanders
Rochester Rhinos
Tampa Bay Rowdies
FC NY
Edmonton
Ottawa
Crystal Palace Baltimore
Detroit

 

of course we are talking second division here. So as I posted before if all teams that are supposed to go to USL stay in USL and the expansion teams come in by 2011. USL = 18 and MLS = 18. I will be happy if those USL-1 teams average 5,000-8,000.

Back on topic another tidbit:
http://www.majorleaguesoccertalk.com/new-teams-for-the-usl/6976

 

How do you figure that? Many MLS teams are quality teams on field too. Don't let our team's suckitude this year cloud your judgment.

 

Well I really meant in comparison with other leagues around the world. I.E. Brazil, Argentina, Mexico, Italy , England , Spain and even France. As much maligned as the French league is, its actually not a bad outfit. The MLS lacks, potent attacking goal scorers like a Pippo Inzaghi or Ibra , creative play making midfielders like Del Piero, Baggio , Zola, Kaka or Messi and systematic contrasting styles of play like AC Milan employed in the 80's and 90's or like Man United & Liverpool always have. In 14 years, I've yet seen any team employ or develop a true American style. Not sure if its defensive, attacking or pressing or counterattack.

On the other hand, having said that what American MLS players do have as opposed to most nations are strong defenders and GK's. If you put them up against the worlds best, I'd tend to think they hold their own.

 

The question is will we have two second division leagues?

 

We should know in the next week or two. But as it stands we're going to have at least 1 with USL committed to going forward.