You didn't answer the question. It's not your money. Businessmen don't usually do stuff on the advice of people who've demonstrated they have no clue about business. Heaven forbid someone's hopes shouldn't be realized in the timeframe they originally state. Three years is not 2014, by the way, math genius.
How'd it work out for the Flash? I'm going to guess - and you tell me, you're closer to it - that among the many reasons the Rhinos don't draw like they did 10 years ago is the perceived difference in the level of play. (You know as well as anyone that's far from the only reason, but let's look at that one, because not many teams have been seriously affected attendance-wise by a drop, as long as they didn't just completely gut their front office.) I couldn't see a move to the NPSL doing anything but killing interest. The NPSL is where people go when they're not quite ambitious enough to run a PDL team.
You really are bitter that the response isn't an automatic "of COURSE they should go the NASL because the NASL is SO stable and successful," aren't you? I'll grant that the NASL has taken more steps forward than backwards this year, but a lot of that is San Antonio and minor success in other locales, and doesn't address that Traffic is still propping up multiple teams that they can't find local ownership for. At some point, Traffic is going to stop wanting to pour money down a money pit and the only way that changes is if they get owners for the other teams and the league grows - and not by replacing a lost team with a new team (San Antonio for Montreal, New York for . . . Minnesota?). I'm also not saying USL PRO is a panacea, but if Orlando can satisfy its customers with a good product in a league that isn't as expensive as the NASL, then they have no reason to move. I'm with Kenn, though - waiting with baited breath your next great missive.
Last year: 5,265 This year: 6,606 1,341 / 5,265 = 25.47% Just trying to help. Also, perhaps WSW is looking at this the wrong way. Perhaps instead of being mad about Orlando City drawing so much, maybe he should be mad about 7 out of 8 (maybe 6, depending on carryover at the new JRL) NASL teams drawing so little. (No offense, Kenn.)
At the moment, there is no imperative for Orlando to move up. If they make it to MLS at some point in the near future, their lower-level stay will just be part of club lore, fondly remembered days in a sweltering Citrus Bowl. They certainly don't have to do what a guy on a message board thinks they should do. They - as all teams - should do what they feel is best for their business. That's how it works here.
Are you talking the current WNY Flash ?......if so, loss of big names hurt them at the box office, sure...they picked up toward the end of their first season here in town once folks caught on and they wanted to see what all the talk was about. Before that, no one bothered to show for the first half of the season. Plus the Abby Wambach factor. What will happen in a few years once Abby retires is anyones guess....locally, I'd say no Abby once or twice a year, no fans to watch any womens club that plays here. Alex Morgan and Hope Solo ,Marta won't attract tons of fans. Abby rules in the ROC. This season was not great for the WPSL Flash. But then again, they were in the TOP TIER of womens league with nowhere to go but down. If your talking the old Rochester Flash (which your probably not)....the Flash came about after the old Lancers folded....again same situation as the WPS andWPSL team here. As for the current Rhinos , they were never in the MLS /1st division and dropping down to USL. So most fans now don't know the difference or realize what league we play in currently. I know plenty that don't attend anymore since they learned about our D3 league status. We've probably bottomed out now with holdout fans thinking we will move up to either D2/NASL . People here realize MLS ain't gonna happen anymore. I personally see alot good from a production value standpoint the NASL is doing,and some other stuff too. But its not gonna happen either. Orlando will eventually join MLS, like all the others did, they deserve it and I think it would make a great MLS city. We're stayin put for a long,long, while. The club just doesn't have the $$$ for any kind of "move up"...even a slight bump up to D2 would probably kill them. As for going to/down to NPSL, no one knows a thing about this league or probably care enough to completely empty the stadium, heck we snuck back down to USL with a drop , but like I said, its most likely bottomed out now. Most fans now don't know where or who we play against except the 2k diehard fans, and they will probably stay put.....the other thousand or two that come out in the summer just for the promos/giveaways/kids stuff/food/nite out,etc. will still come out as casual fans if the tix stay the same $$ or get cheaper in NPSL ( when we went back to USL my tix went up with 3 fewer home games, most other seats stayed the same for 3 less games). Staying the same now,or getting cheaper would appeal to fans here......but who knows what would happen. My guess is if marketed just like now, fans would think the USL changed names to NPSL and added closer teams. We would be big fish in a very small pond and no one would know what happened unless they were told by the media everyday, and the media doesn't really care much about us now, they do the best they can at giving the Rhinos airtime. I would rather us be in the best possible league we could be, I like NASL but its no big deal playing in USL either. NPSL could someday be a reality if $$ gets too tight.
None taken. We went over Orlando's numbers from last year earlier, didn't we? I I had them at 64,985 for 12 dates (5,415 average). That's what the USL Guide has. 4/09/2011...FC New York.................7,933 4/22/2011...Puerto Rico United..........7,279 5/14/2011...Pittsburgh Riverhounds......5,876 5/25/2011...Richmond Kickers............4,517 6/02/2011...Charlotte Eagles............4,241 6/10/2011...Antigua Barracuda FC........5,943 6/18/2011...Wilmington Hammerheads......6,923 7/08/2011...Dayton Dutch Lions..........4,594 7/16/2011...Rochester Rhinos............4,758 8/03/2011...Charleston Battery..........3,121 8/06/2011...Charleston Battery..........5,251 8/12/2011...Harrisburg City Islanders...4,549
Is there another one? And that's what usually happens when you move down. Which was my point. De Facto top tier. Despite what Zanelli said, yes, there was a difference in quality of play. And everything else. WPSL-Elite was a stopgap, I get that. But it was a step down from WPS, regardless of whether or not it was the highest level (cough cough) of women's soccer.
No, he just thinks that because "facts" and "fanboy" start with the same two letters, that they're interchangeable.
Yes, we did. I don't have my numbers at hand, but I have a different source from the USL Guide. I thought it was a reliable one, but if it differs from what's in print, then maybe I need to change to the print number. What do you think, Kenn?
In the way that these aren't the same New York Yankees? Orlando and Rochester self-relegated to the third division at the same freaking time.
I went back and double-checked my numbers with that source I gave you...and it matches what's printed in the official guide. Just for consistency's sake, the various numbers you see on my site for the various divisions over the years...when I haven't tracked them myself or had official verification...have been what's printed in each year's league guide. But YMMV.
Unless I can't add I think your seating capacity is a little off. It adds up to 9700. Actual seating capacity is about 12,500. To me, I figure about 4,000-5,000 a game attending. No way we get under 3,000.
So if they are staying to save money instead of going to NASL, how does that look good for a potential MLS owner...compared to Cosmos owner.
You mean.,,, that they are not wasteful businessmen? I think that just might go in their favor. But that is just a guess.
Oh, yeah, that was a bone of contention before. I saw 1,321 as well, but the league has it as the other. Someone transposed a number somewhere. But, like Ty Cobb's hit total, once it's logged with the league, it's hard to dislodge it. That's probably where we differ.
You're right. Except there won't be a new MLS team in 2014, most likely, based on the two years between announcement and first game for the previous few expansion teams. And while MLS has plans for the new stadium in New York, I am not certain they could get it done there by March 2014. Maybe they could. But every day that goes by makes 2014 more and more unlikely for team 20. Now answer the original question: what exactly is this "something" that USSF has to do to satisfy whatever you have suddenly decided lower-level soccer is supposed to look like in this country?
To answer your question: Well if the American owners in England go their way with a closed system, that's how soccer would look like.
Dean of Soccer aka Kenn, yes their was another Flash.....The Rochester Flash followed the original Rochester Lancers after the team/league folded....they played at the old Hollander Stadium . They were in the same boat back then as the WPSL is today, a defacto top league. My point comparing a move from USL to NPSL probably making no difference was that the USL is a generic no brand league not many here know or care much about. MLS is of course the "Major brand in US soccer".....NPSL is just another "no brand league just as the USL is" . If the Rhinos were an MLS team moving down to USL you'd definitely see a big drop. At this point, they can't do any worse at the box office, like I said its bottomed out now. So switching from one generic brand to another generic might not make much of a difference here. I don't think many people would care much. Like the tree falling in the woods, would anyone in ROC hear it if the USL suddenly fell from the local paper/tv media and the NPSL appeared in its place?.....USL means nothing to local fans like the WPS meant slightly to womens pro followers.
I understand what your saying Rampage. There about 10.2k seats at Shalens....again I mentioned these were approximate figures. Tell ya what, get to the game extra early and have yourself and another person do a quick count across and up each section, and you'll get around that amount. The extra is for the suites and standing areas under the scorboard.....maybe the bleachers behind the goal have the capacity for another 500 fans then I mentioned , but it doesn't matter anyways when you count the fans in that area every game. Take some pics like I did of the 3 sides of the stadium at the 25th minute when fans have settled in their seats and you'll realize what I'm saying. And go back to the pix I posted a month ago maybe and you'll see the announce 6200 crowd were nowhere to be found in the pix. That unfortunately has been all too common the last few years. And don't forget, a few years ago before the suites were in, they reduced the seating slightly( not enough to make any difference though ). Now they announce the "distributed amount of tix" , not the actual "butts in seats" /"fans walking thru the gates". I'm sure alot of teams in USL and NASL do this too, I'm just concerned with our club. Were far from being an Orlando or San Antonio these days. The 4-5k your thinking certainly isn't being squeezed into the 2 level side and throughout 114-119. The side I'm on is the side that shows on the internet stream or tv view, you know the side thats always mostly empty. Most of the 500 -600 fans are concentrated in sects.125-127 If I'm wrong on this, I'll buy the local fans that read this a beer or beverage of your choice at the playoff game on the 31st.
I can't figure out who's dumber...the guy who says that all you have to do is make US Soccer look like England and it will actually BE England, or the guy who can't distinguish between a brand that's been around 25 years and operates a multitude of leagues and a brand that's been around about an hour and a half and lets clubs like the Phoenix Monsoon exist.