USL General News thread

Discussion in 'United Soccer Leagues' started by thefishy, Sep 28, 2014.

  1. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    For some reason at the time , I forget why but USMNT coach Bob Gansler didn't want to use any outdoor (old) NASL or indoor MISL players for the Italia 1990 WC tournament.

    Ironically, new USMNT Bora Milutinović coach qualified automatically as the host nation in 1994 and he did use three old NASL players; Fernando Clavijo, Roy Wegerle and Hugo Pérez. Wegerle was supposed to play for England in 1990 but he swore allegiance to the USA. I can't remember why Gansler didn't pick him then and don't recall if he wanted to pick him or not. I don't believe he had his citizenship papers in order at that point.

    Frank Klopas signed with the Chicago Sting when he graduated from HS but was injured and couldn't play in the leagues last outdoor season in 1984. He did play in the indoor MISL for the Sting I believe. Incredible how much time has gone by as it seems like yesterday.
     
  2. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
  3. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    CONCACAF got their point across.

    This is their final year and next year, the same arguments won't work.
     
  4. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    I don't think anyone in this forum expected the Fury to stay in the USL long term.
     
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  5. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    Tell that to their delusional ownership and fans. Instead of preparing for a post-USL future, they still think that they will force CONCACAF to sanction them as long as the 3 MLS clubs stays in the US.*

    *That's the argument being brought up over and over out of Ottawa. They claim that such a move is justifiable only if CONCACAF acts on the 3 MLS clubs as well.
    Which is frankly, a ridiculous argument to put all your hopes upon.

    They burned bridges with CPL who's now in a position to pass on the Fury and grant a club to another ownership altogether, leaving the with nowhere to play or forcing them to sell.
     
  6. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Why?

    They're not here.

    This is the BigSoccer USL forum. I deal with the people in this forum.
     
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  7. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    I haven’t been following but can Concacaf legally do anything to stop them? If they make a stink about the Fury in the USL, would they to the same for the Caps, TFC and Impact in MLS sooner or later?
     
  8. Yoshou

    Yoshou Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That’s a pretty dick way to get their point across and just makes CONCACAF look weak. What they could have done is told the Fury that they were sanctioning them for 2019, but they would not sanction them for further seasons. Instead, they tried to pull out their big guns and, appearance wise, it looks like they got smacked back by Ottawa going to CAS...
     
  9. Yoshou

    Yoshou Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes they can. One of FIFA’s regulations is that in order for teams to play outside their federation they need the approval of their home federation, the federation they’ll be playing in, their confederation, and FIFA.
     
  10. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    The FIFA rule they are invoking is that cross-boder league play is allowed under exceptional circumstances. As of now, CONCACAF no longer recognize the Fury in USL as meeting said terms.

    The Fury argues that they should be treated just like the MLS teams on equal terms which is the only argument they have left now since CONCACAF is allowing them to play in USL for 2019, taking away their "timing, ticket sale, he said/ she said, miscommunication" through the window.

    The Fury argument will never fly. Where the 3 teams can argue that there's no MLS equivalent in Canada, the Fury can't make the same case with CPL. Invoking the "equality" is all they have left and they seem willing to bet their future on it as they have spent the fall burning their bridges with the CPL.
     
  11. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    That means there would be a bias because if they let Vancouver , Toronto and Montreal slide as they are letting them get away with playing in MLS and not Ottawa in the USL. I'm not sure of about what Canadian laws state but a that point, the Fury can easily file a lawsuit in an international court to keep playing.

    Just like Welsh teams Wrexham, Cardiff and Swansea are allowed to play in the English league, I don't see how the CSA, Concacaf and/or FIFA would win in court or how they can block it.
     
  12. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    Journalist are on record stating that the Fury was told by the CSA in 2017 that sanctioning would end once CPL started...Fury president was in attendance
    They have been spinning this like they had no clue what was going at the CSA (the Fury president sits on the CSA board) :rolleyes: and all of this came as a "shock" while being told last year. On top of that, they go public on going to USL in 2019 without any bodies sanctioning them. CONCACAF wrote to the CSA in September about the Fury behavior and that they disagree that they should be sanction.

    Fury argues that they were in the dark that the CSA were told by CONCACAF that it didn't support a sanction for 2019. The Fury president sits on the CSA board so no one buys that.

    It really looks like the Fury knew what was coming and decided to push for USL 2019 to push everyone in a corner to sanction them. When they announced that they wouldn't be joining CPL, they blindsided both the league and the CSA.

    The league said they were moving on with other groups of investors wanting to put a club in Ottawa, the CSA were put in a difficult situation. They didn't want to pull the "nuclear option" of pulling them so they file the sanction papers...but CONCACAF pulled the trigger.

    Fury argues that the timing was bad, they were completely in the dark and miscommunication. They were going to use those arguments at the CAS to be allowed to stay in USL for 2019, which most of us assumed they'd get.

    CONCACAF just sanctioning them now makes sense. They now take away all those arguments away from them for the sanction review for the 2020 USL season leaving them with "wanting to be treated the same as MLS clubs"
     
  13. Yoshou

    Yoshou Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well... CONCACAF disagrees with the statement that they didn’t sanction Ottawa for 2019. CONCACAF is saying they only told them that since they’d just gotten CSA’s approval for them to play in USL, CONCACAF would start their review process.

    https://www.concacaf.com/en/article/concacaf-statement-ottawa-fury-fc

    I wonder what Ottawa was told.. They didn’t say who notified them in their initial tweet and article that started this while kerfuffle.

    https://www.ottawafuryfc.com/news_article/show/976824
     
  14. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    That's the Fury argument, CONCACAF disagrees. "Exceptional Circumstances" leaves tons of room for interpretation.

    Nothing states that FIFA/CONCACAF or Associations can't rule on sanctioning matters...case by case basis.

    Fury are arguing that if they are pulled, MLS teams should be pulled. CONCACAF would use the "Exceptional Circumstances" to say that CPL is nowhere near MLS, which isn't the case at all.

    In my opinion, there's no way CAS or any court will fill define "Exceptional Circumstances" and fill that void creating a massive precedent within FIFA.
     
  15. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Yes but if they let the MLS clubs continue on and not the Fury in the USL , they would then be showing a prejudice or bias. I doubt either FIFA/CONCACAF would want to fight it in a court of law. I don't think they have that right to dictate where a club can play. Maybe not on a the same scale but a Bosman ruling wouldn't be out of the ordinary. I just don't see how or why they would want to block it. The only thing they could do is pull the Canadian World Cup bid but even then, they would be facing countless lawsuits. I just don't see FIFA or CONCACAF winning on this issue.
     
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  16. Yoshou

    Yoshou Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    One theory that I’ve seen bandied about is that FIFA has, in the past, been open to teams seeking a higher level of play as justification for playing outside their home federation. Since CPL is supposed to be roughly on par with USL and USL is a closed league, that justification may not exist for Ottawa, but would exist for the MLS teams. Now, there could be questions about the Canadian MLS2 teams playing in USL1/2, but who knows.
     
  17. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Well, if the Fury argument doesn't fly, why isn't TF2 being pushed into the CPL? Either the USL is an equivalent league and TF2 should be the CPL or the USL is a lower level and TF2 should be pushed into that Canadian equivalent.

    To single out Ottawa does make CONCACAF and CSA look like a bunch of clowns.
     
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  18. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    CPL doesn't want farm teams. CPL 2 doesn't exist yet

    They aren't being singled out. If there's a Canadian alternative, the rules are clear.

    When League 1 Ontario got D3 sanction, the clubs were pulled from PDL. That's why there's no Quebec team in PDL, PLSQ exist. If a Western D3 gets established, same will happen.

    If FC Edmonton were in NASL or USL, same thing would have happened to them.

    That's why their argument will fall flat
     
  19. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    But Ottawa is a farm team for Montreal.
     
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  20. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    Affiliate, not like FC Montreal.
     
  21. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    I still think the if the Fury want to fight it, they will win.
     
  22. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    To-may-to, To-mah-to
     
  23. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    I don't disagree. Many had call for Ottawa to be banned from the Canadian Championship as the CSA doesn't allow farm teams in the competition.

    To enter CPL, they would have had to cut ties to Montreal
     
  24. Yoshou

    Yoshou Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If your argument is that Ottawa’s opinion on not wanting to play in the CPL doesn’t matter, then I’m not sure if the CPL’s opinion on not wanting MLS2 teams matters. CPL could be forced to take them just like Ottawa could be forced into CPL.
     
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  25. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    Based on what? That they agreed willingly to FIFA terms and that now those terms aren't favorable to them, they want to challenge it?

    Sure, but it a steep cliff to climb. They have to demonstrate that "Exceptional circumstances" should be interpreted the way they want it to be (everyone should be equals?).

    Good luck to them.
     

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