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Discussion in 'USL Expansion' started by mikehurst21, Jan 4, 2016.
Welp. Good luck with that. It's a whole lot more expensive than it used to be.
I know for a fact that it was 90 miles because there was a big discussion on BS about 12 years ago when the Salty dogs came into the league but I wouldn't be surprised if that rule has changed. Quite a few things have changed since then...
I have to think that with the USL really pushing the whole 'national league, regional focus' thing, teams in Buffalo and Rochester would not be a deal breaker. Besides, how many fans at Rhinos games from Buffalo do you really expect to find? Driving 80 miles to see a third division soccer team, unless they're playing the team from your town, doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
I sit with about 10 people that make that drive from buffalo for most matches
That's my thought as well.
That's awesome. But if they only had to drive 15 minutes, wouldn't they rather do that? If you're in a metro area over a million people, I would think a well-marketed team can draw sufficient numbers.
I’m an ex-Rochester guy living in Buffalo currently, and travel to a couple of games per season. But yeah, I highly doubt that there are a lot of others besides me.
I'm sure the league would have no qualms about a team in Buffalo, and would likely encourage it if there was a realistic chance of it happening. I don’t see it occurring anytime soon though, if ever. FC Buffalo has talked about moving up in the past, but they’d have a major uphill battle. For one thing, suitable venues for a Soccer team at that level just don’t exist. Building their own, even if they obtained the funds to do it, would be incredibly foolish.
I'd guess that Rochester will lose fewer fans than a home/away with a Buffalo rival would bring in (for that game or two) to be honest.
What I'm saying is if they have 10 fans from Buffalo that travel for each home game (15) to make 150 total for the season (on average). I could see Buffalo FC bringing 75 or so fans for the two away match's in Rochester. Could be much more if the games "matter" so to speak. If the teams market it ... it could be good for both teams.
absolutely, the past 4,5,6 seasons, there has been little to no marketing.
Also, thousands and thousands of rochestarians drive to buffalo for bills/sabres games in horrible weather and they are complete s***. If rochestarians/cuse fans didnt come out to buffalo for games, they wouldnt sell out nearly as much.
New ownership group needs to make transportation to and from buffalo and syracuse easy. even if that means providing a bus for each.
the 10 i was refering to are only people i personally know, and these people are active supporters for rochester not buffalo. if i were to guess maybe 200 come from buffalo.
What im saying is, if rochester or buffalo want to be a success, there cant be two teams. The bills in american football would have a hard time surviving if it wasnt from the support of rochester.
Difference is we're talking crowds of 60,000+ for Bills games versus crowds of 5,000 (give or take) that USL would be shooting for.
I don't see how that number is unattainable in both Buffalo and Rochester. If we're instead talking about major league levels, then that's a different story.
To compare the Bills attendance needs to USL soccer teams is silly. You state that there needs to be better transportation between the cities for the Bills to get their attendance ... well, if you each have your own team, it increases the amount of people in the stands in the region I would guess. I don't know the attendance needed to be called a "success" but if travel is an issue, having 1 team is keeping fans away from professional soccer ... might be worth a shot to see if it would work. How many people did they say they get to Buffalo FC fans? I could see that core group being ones that would travel to Rochester to see Buffalo FC in an away match, while also being season ticket holders at home.
Either way, like someone said, venue is key.
Yet, if joining the USL is what they want to do, they'll have to build their own venue. Ideally, 5 to 8K stadiums with plans to expand would be ideal for all USL teams.
If there are really 200 fans going from Buffalo to Rochester, that's awesome. But again, you have to think that a Buffalo team, marketed well, would be a plus for the league, and for Rochester, too. The new ownership group is taking good steps to repair the stadium, and with a little marketing, they could be big like they used to be, with or without the Buffalo fans. And that Buffalo/Rochester rivalry has serious potential.
for rhinos matches not bills games.
it wouldnt be a rivalry to the fans, and thats most important. Buffalo and Rochester support the same teams. Rochesters rivals are and will always be Impact Montreal and Pittsburgh.
So maybe it would be more of a "friendly" rival and something the two cities don't often get to explore at the professional level since teams in each aren't in the same leagues. I'm sure there are some high school level rivalries in sports though.
Either way, it will be interesting to see if it goes anywhere. Is the downtown baseball venue an short term possibility to see if a demand is there for a SSS? Seems to be how others are starting off (Louisville, Arizona United, etc).
Precisely. Both cities have triple-A baseball, and it doesn't cause a problem. USL level Soccer wouldn't be any different.
I agree that they’d probably HAVE to build their own venue, since there’s really nothing else suitable now. But doing so, even with a moderately sized one, would need a solid business plan to go with it. As in, making it a multi-purpose facility, and having plans in place to draw other events. Building one just for 15+ USL dates would be a massive money pit.
FC Buffalo currently plays at a high school stadium in the city. It’s a nice older venue with a lot of charm and ample seating, but...it’s a high school stadium.
Rochester is another subject, but the Rhinos appear to finally be in good hands. Interviews I’ve listened to with the new owners have been very encouraging.
I suppose it's possible. I don't think Soccer has ever been played there before, and it's a big triple-A park (17k). Hence, I imagine rent would be a tad bit pricey.
Start talking San Diego, Nashville, LAFC 2, Vegas & Boise. Lots going on stay tuned...
Are these all USL? How about NASL?
I've wondered what might be going on in Boise. They released those stadium renderings last year and then fell quiet. If they can get the Basque community behind the team, they could have something pretty special going on in Idaho
it would be amazing if they could land san diego, boise, nashville and vegas. then they could dump the mls 2's and have over 20 independent teams
You do realize that the MLS2 teams are going nowhere right? Hell MLS saved that league, the would be stupid to break away.
Albuquerque eyes downtown soccer stadium
March 24th, 2016 2:26AM
Why dump those teams ... just make it more "regional" with a good playoff to finish the year. If a team wants a more "national" league without any MLS 2 teams, then by all means, the NASL will welcome them.
why keep them, yes the partnership helped, but soon that partnership will hurt the league, when all the indie teams are pulling 4-5k+ and the 2's are bringing in 300-1k, it will hurt the image of the league. why keep them when in a couple years the league will have around 22-24 independent teams in some very large markets.
in 2020 if said USL stadium plan is done, this league is far more attractive than mls was in the early 2000's when rochester was trying to get in.
DONT FORGET THIS, USL also is very much part of the partnership, getting mls players minutes in competetive matches, that now hurt the league. Just like how the usl wanted a better run organization than the rhinos were last year (probably wont happen again, dworkins are real deal) to host the final, they also wanted OKC to beat la2.
so. this partner ship between the leagues wont last forever,
usl gets help building their league,
mls gets help setting up all their teams with academies,
thats the partnership and when its done the mls will be have their own 2 league, similar to how EU does it.
just all my opinion...
I'm not saying this won't happen, it may very well. I just don't know that either MLS or USL really wants/needs this to happen. I'm not sure that the MLS2 teams are really hurting the image of the league by having small attendances. I think the play on the field matters more to independent USL owners. Those low attendances don't hurt their bottom line, and the relationship with MLS likely helps them sell advertising, and other things that help their bottom line.
That being said. I'd LOVE for the USL to expand enough to have a 2 division split with the top 16-18 teams form a USL 1 and 30 or so teams are in USL 2 that is more regional. I don't know if that will happen either, but it's certainly a possibility. MLS doesn't want to have just a Reserve League ... they want to be a part of another professional league. USL will have to REALLY be hurt by those MLS 2 teams for them to push them out the door, and I just don't see that happening, but maybe there is something I'm not seeing in those markets and in those ownership groups that is effected by those lower attendance figures. Since there isn't revenue sharing, I don't see it hurting their bottom line. And honestly, who cares if they bring the league average attendance down that much ... only people in forums like this care about that stuff (for the most part).
The MLS didn't need help setting their teams up with academies, that was already set up when the USL partnership happened. But who knows ... you may be right in how it eventually happens. IMO, there are a number of options for this to turn into.
All I know is in this country league end up as a Major League and a Minor League subsidized by the major league. History tells me that will be MLS and USL will end up that way as well.