Post-match: USA vs. T&T - June 22, 2019 - Gold Cup

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by schrutebuck, Jun 22, 2019.

  1. Bluecat82

    Bluecat82 Member+

    Feb 24, 1999
    Minneapolis, MN
    Club:
    Minnesota United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Radical solution to building the pool:

    A "B" team.

    They can get experience playing (and occasionally, or more often) losing to the Bermudas, Curacaos, Nicaraguas and the like, in CONCACAF and out.

    Guys on the fringes get game experience, the smaller countries get more games.

    Win-win.
     
  2. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    sorry but when you look like a much better wing player, that you start out in the middle but have license to go out and be crowded by a lesser left wing is weak sauce. buried in his acknowledgment he can go wide, to me, is him trying to justify the anti-obvious to people who are like me, that's obviously where he plays well. "Ok, let me placate you, the offense is designed to let him drift out there on alternating Tuesdays."

    it at least in a way admits he sees some of what we see, but it's actually an excuse to cut across that grain disguised as "but he can also go wide."

    similarly, the 4141 discussion makes him sound like he can adjust and offer different systems etc. when in reality it's like we beat our heads against the wall with his idea and he finally moved off it. granted, i give JK some credit for switching to what he did for Brazil, since i don't think his free flowing idea worked. i would give GB credit for it. but is this, as with Pulisic, him talking up a variation on the theme to take credit, but in fact the default rule is clunky, and we'll be right back out there in the edsel next game.

    part of coaching being that if your original idea doesn't work, we don't have to work around it the first 60 of every game going forward, before you adjust and pulisic freelances. that maybe we shift to the approach that, you know, worked, and like from whistle to whistle. and he can try the 4141 with some other unit some other time.
     
    Patrick167 repped this.
  3. UncagedGorilla

    Sep 22, 2009
    Tulsa
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    American Samoa
    Really quality post with a lot of valid discussion points. I'm of the opinion that we should have one camp per year to really dig deep into our domestic player pool, Camp Cupcake and another to dig deep into our Euro pool and I believe that should be the November window given MLS logistics and we should always play two games in Europe during that window.

    If you call in roughly 30 guys to each camp with basically none of them overlapping, you've got an honest look at 60 guys. The rest of the year should be spent calling in the best 23 from what you find between those two camps. Let's evaluate what a starting 11 from each would look like with some key subs listed:

    Camp Cupcake
    ----------------Altidore------------------
    Arriola---------Lletget----------Morris
    --------Canouse-----Pomykal---------
    Lima--Long--Zimmerman--Cannon
    -----------------Steffen-------------------
    Subs: Gonzalez (GK), Zardes, Bradley, Mihailovic, Roldan, Alvarado, Trapp, Lovitz, etc.

    Camp Euro
    -------------------Sargent----------------
    Boyd-------------Pulisic----------Amon
    --------Mckennie-------Adams---------
    Robinson----Brooks---Miazga--Lichaj
    ------------------Horvath--------------------
    Subs: Klinsmann, CCV, Gall, EPB, Novakovich, Green, Cameron, Hyndman, Morales, etc.

    That's 39 players off the top of my head that form a nice pool without really digging too deep into the project guys. I would call in some young guys to see where they're at like Dest and Gloster getting an invite to Camp Euro for instance and some older guys to see if they can still help us right now like Cameron, Besler, and whoever else appears to be in good form. Rotate the squad to give most of them a chance to start a game. If possible, schedule a tough one for what you perceive to be your A group like Portugal then go play Finland or someone with a pulse but not great with your rotated group. Same with Cupcake, play Argentina or someone willing to field a good team then play Haiti with your rotated squad, someone good enough to not be a pushover at least. Given the split we have in our player pool, this route makes too much sense for us not to use as often as possible. Sarachan sorta did this and we looked pretty good and learned a lot about some players, McKennie's only game for us at the 6 for instance!
     
    TxEx, Patrick167, gogorath and 2 others repped this.
  4. Eighteen Alpha

    Eighteen Alpha Member+

    Aug 17, 2016
    Club:
    Stoke City FC
    How can you confuse @yurch10 with Office Space? Diametrically opposed arguments.
     
  5. Mahtzo1

    Mahtzo1 Member+

    Jan 15, 2007
    So Cal
    I think you make a good point, but the question is how is the position designed? Are the instructions to the rest of the team set up to give Pulisic license to roam without significantly affecting the responsibilities of the other players? ie, when a left wing switches to the right side, the right wing generally has to switch sides and it is often a semi-permanent adjustment. In the game vs T&T, Pulisic was all over the field, left, right, central. What are his instructions from Berhalter? Just find space and be dangerous? For Pulisc, I could see instructions like..."just find space and be dangerous as legitimate instructions". Obviously, the other positions have to be much more structured but he can improvise within the system. If I remember correctly Klinsmann was ridiculed for his disdain for specific position names but I do agree that the flexibility of modern soccer does make certain names ambiguous at times...more true for some positions than others. Dempsey often started at outside mid but was given a free hand to go pretty much anywhere he wanted...especially his last year(s) at Fulham and the USMNT. I think Pulisic is a similar type of player in that regard. We want him to have freedom of movement. If he has freedom of movement, his starting location is less important for the player but could have an impact on how the rest of the team is set up. (outside mid with defensive responsibilities vs am with fewer defensive responsibilities for ex)
     
  6. tomásbernal

    tomásbernal Member+

    Sep 4, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Hence why I said "alter ego". Their posting style, however, is nearly identical.
     
    USA-Zebuel repped this.
  7. Eighteen Alpha

    Eighteen Alpha Member+

    Aug 17, 2016
    Club:
    Stoke City FC
    Ah so it’s bizzarro yurch.
     
    tomásbernal repped this.
  8. rgli13

    rgli13 BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Mar 23, 2005
    Memphis, Tn
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    id pay ridiculous ussf prices to see that, but id demand bradley and trapp (and zardes, for that matter) start. if this is to prove a point lets make that opportunity available.
     
  9. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    I disagree. The way we are playing right now -- with players in Bradley and Ream who will stay back and a LW who will track back -- Pulisic has absolute freedom not only to range but not worry about defense at all.

    In the end of the day, I think he has more freedom in the middle and will end up in wherever the open space is. With the right 10, the wing could be just as flexible, I think, but that's kind of why I think it is not a big deal either way.

    I personally think Weah is going to make a GREAT partner for Puli out on that left wing, though -- he's the perfect player to interchange with Pulisic and will have many of the same strengths as Arriola but better at his weaknesses.

    I like players like Lleget and Holmes but I don't think they will do as well inside.

    In short, I think he's going to have plenty of space regardless of position, so I don't think it's a big deal.
     
    tomásbernal repped this.
  10. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    If this was a solution, wouldn't someone be doing it? Wouldn't the Germans be doing it?

    There must be something wrong with the idea. Like, it is against FIFA rules. But maybe you could have a team with all the non-MLS players on it, as the official team. And then get MLS teams to release players to a U30 team or something.

    Most of our team picks itself. Criticism of the squad will lessen when Gregg shows he is running a meritocracy and not a team for his buddies.
     
    yurch10 repped this.
  11. 50/50 Ball

    50/50 Ball Member+

    Sep 6, 2006
    USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What other teams are similarly situated?
     
  12. freisland

    freisland Member+

    Jan 31, 2001
    Have advocated this for years. Not sure the finances involved, but why not?

    And throw in a few Euro camps/games as well - we need to play more on the road. Lots of "B" team Euros be interesting to look at.
     
  13. freisland

    freisland Member+

    Jan 31, 2001
    No one plays friendlies with a "B" team?
     
  14. yurch10

    yurch10 Member+

    Feb 13, 2004
    Leave Tomas alone, he already got spanked. Let him recover instead of picking on his grammar. Sheesh.
     
    Eighteen Alpha repped this.
  15. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    A full B-roster is used in matches that are not FIFA sanctioned, like the one against Puerto Rico. Otherwise, when you play a FIFA sanctioned game, whoever you call, that's your A-team and you get rated accordingly --a loss is considered a loss by your A-team for ranking purposes.

    In other words, everybody already plays their B-team once in a while and accepts the consequences (drop in the FIFA ranking).
     
  16. UncagedGorilla

    Sep 22, 2009
    Tulsa
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    American Samoa
    Well, I didn't necessarily mean it to be a scrimmage but I would also greatly enjoy that match!

    I believe looking to expand the pool once a year from both our domestic/Mexican and Euro ranks makes all the sense. If we see Morris play against Argentina and Gall play against Portugal in the span of two months, then we can have a legitimate conversation. Right now we just aren't getting to see many logical alternatives for roster spots if they aren't playing in MLS. That Camp Euro should serve as an opportunity for those guys to do like Lima did in Camp Cupcake and show that he deserves a spot in the 23.
     
  17. Lloyd Heilbrunn

    Lloyd Heilbrunn Member+

    Feb 11, 2002
    Jupiter, Fl.
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You mean a "C" team.

    Because I am not yet convinced our current team is not a "B" team.
     
    UncagedGorilla repped this.
  18. TOAzer

    TOAzer Member+

    The Man With No Club
    May 29, 2016
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yurch10 has arguments; arguments you can reason with. Office Space never presents an argument, unless "Because I says so" is an argument. You cannot get more diametrically opposed arguments than that....;)
     
    Eighteen Alpha repped this.
  19. TOAzer

    TOAzer Member+

    The Man With No Club
    May 29, 2016
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Their posting style has nothing in common....beyond the use of English....... Please don't make me un-ignore Office Space in order to gather the pieces to present that case. I got a notice saying that there are nearly 400 posts from Office Space waiting to be unleashed [should I remove him from "ignore"]. No man could survive that avalanche....
     
    Eighteen Alpha repped this.
  20. tomásbernal

    tomásbernal Member+

    Sep 4, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Spanked? You really think you hurt my feelings by reminding me that, 2 months ago, you posted that you won't watch USMNT games? Lulz.

    I think you should read the definition of "grammar", because my grammar is nearly perfect. Using a term like "alter ego" has nothing to do with grammar, and is perfectly correct to describe your alter ego, officespace.
     
  21. tomásbernal

    tomásbernal Member+

    Sep 4, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Wow. 400? Since when?? I guess I've been unintentionally avoiding the threads where he's posting. I just checked: he's made over 170 posts in the last 5 days. That is truly astounding.
     
  22. yurch10

    yurch10 Member+

    Feb 13, 2004
    I have no problems with your grammar, nor did I say I did. I told people to stop picking on your grammar.

    Now be quiet. You've embarrassed yourself twice now, let's not continue...
     
    TheHoustonHoyaFan repped this.
  23. tomásbernal

    tomásbernal Member+

    Sep 4, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    But, dear Yurch, no one picked on my grammar.
     
  24. yurch10

    yurch10 Member+

    Feb 13, 2004
    Breaking news - internet message board poster who got embarrassed says "LULZ, i'm not embarrassed".

    Now roll over and let me pet your belly. again.
     
  25. tomásbernal

    tomásbernal Member+

    Sep 4, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If your standards for embarrassment are so low, then you must be embarrassed all the time. Silly Billy.
     

Share This Page