PBP: USA vs Bolivia; May 28th, 2018

Discussion in 'USA Men' started by Sebsasour, May 28, 2018.

  1. Napoleon_BA

    Napoleon_BA Member

    May 22, 2009
    Club:
    CA Lanús
    1) What is this lineup for?

    2) I've never heard of a team putting their best tackler in at the #10 spot.

    3) Pulisic checked out about a month ago. If this game weren't in Pennsylvania, he would already be back in Hershey getting yet another tattoo. (He should focus on his game more than his body art.)
     
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  2. a_new_fan

    a_new_fan BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Jul 6, 2006
    This is deep. Sounds like they should drop thus kid. He's clearly exhausted and u can see it and was best player on the field against Trinidad. Wcq us over Mr wynalda move on.
     
  3. a_new_fan

    a_new_fan BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Jul 6, 2006
    Lol yeah I heard he wanted to sit out a bundesluga match to get a tattoo lol, stop stealing poor lalas's lines.
     
  4. a_new_fan

    a_new_fan BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Jul 6, 2006
    Guys get red cards it happens you can't mold a players game after the chance that he may get one someday.
     
  5. a_new_fan

    a_new_fan BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Jul 6, 2006
    Carleton? Llegett? Experimenting is good but throwing random players in makes no sense.
     
  6. gunnerfan7

    gunnerfan7 Member+

    SJ Earthquakes/Arsenal
    United States
    Jul 22, 2012
    Pleasanton, California
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You did not, but the post that I had responded to did say that.

    The part that you took out, the fact that the 20 apps for a Bundesliga CL squad are during a down year, we agree on.
     
  7. orcrist

    orcrist Member+

    Jun 11, 2005
    Bay Area, California, USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
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  8. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    Yes, Bolivia were bad. But they were no worse than the usual January Camp competition. This past January, a terrible, inexperienced C team from Bosnia made Matt Polster look terrible and were unlucky not to win (missed a penalty) the game. The USMNT scored no goals in that game.

    So, to play such a youthful and inexperienced team and dominate and score 3 is certainly an improvement. This is basically Camp Cupcake for Euro-based players.

    Even besides January friendlies, we have seen supposed next players fail against competition as strong as Martinique (Hedges). So, the important thing to note is that the players just didn't hold their own but many were a class above. You expect Bund starters to be, so no surprise that McKennie is being heralded. But Sargent, Weah, Robinson, Rubin (for 40') all looked great; especially after the three young kids settled down.

    The space Rubin and Weah had in the first 30 minutes had to have something to do with the two Bolivians just following Pulisic around. Lots of criticism for Pulisic, but it made no sense how he was used. He is tired, probably more mentally than physically. So, why play him in a way he has to run and think the most? Playing Pulisic as a CM in a 4-1-4-1 when he is fresh, might make sense to someone, but after 3,000 tough minutes this season and having to answer 100s of questions about missing the World Cup, why not play him on the wing? If he was getting the ball with the space Rubin was in, it would have been much more dangerous than getting the ball near the center circle with four Bolivians hacking at him.

    Having watched Robinson closely, he has quickly adapted to every level he comes to. Kind of like Tyler Adams. Who knows what the limit will be, hope he gets a chance against Ireland and France and gets a loan to a better level of club next year. Maybe he breaks in with Everton, but I think their plan is for him in 2020.

    Sarachan will not be the USMNT coach much longer and he shouldn't be. But we will need a U23 coach soon and he has pretty much played the entire eligible pool at this point. Richie Williams cannot go with him to that staff though.
     
  9. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    Green has a great first touch and is very good at turning in traffic. Actually, two things not all our CMs can do. I think he can play the position that Corona played tonight and Delgado played against Paraguay. He just started playing CM this year, and he got better as the year went. Maybe after another year, in the Bund2, he will make further strides. Not sure if he has the energy to play the pressing system it looks like the USA wants to play. But back from oblivion.

    Weah is already Zardes with a good first touch and a much better IQ and much faster thought process. Yes, he doesn't finish, but for the USMNT and PSG, he consistently is making fantastic and dangerous runs. The less time he has to think, the better his finishing. You can say that about many forwards that have excelled.
     
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  10. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Funny how Carleton, Weah and Sargent were starters together for U17's and Carleton gets the random tag. He would be the 23rd player, like Green in Rio.

    Lletget would be difficult to characterize as random. West Ham, Galaxy, USMNT (where he broke something or would have been playing thru the whole hex, imo) guy who can play wide, score, assist , defend and is well known to the team and Sarachan who coached him at Gals.

    Random. Nah.
     
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  11. ChelseaMatt

    ChelseaMatt Member

    Apr 12, 2005
    Memphis
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Sarachan as U23 coach? I sort of like it. Where does that leave Tab Ramos though? Tab has been great with the youth teams
     
  12. a_new_fan

    a_new_fan BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Jul 6, 2006
    carleton can't get first team minutes and hasn't looked great in usl. weah is a position of need and sargent played with the u20s while carleton was with the u17 and he also plays a position of desperate need.

    lletget is very random nobody cares about him not playing at west ham...thats not a positive lol. he played a few minutes with the usmnt and got hurt and literally just came back at the start of the season and hasn't been very good. Its easy to say...'if everything went well'...or 'all things being equal'...but the fact is things went terrible for him he has literally had multiple surgeries on his foot. He is random until he proves otherwise.
     
  13. a_new_fan

    a_new_fan BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Jul 6, 2006
    he's been great alright...until he gets to good competition then his teams are dominated. Sarachan has shown he gives the side nothing tactically...its clear because there haven't been a clear tactic in any match he's been in charge of. Do you want him to be the coach making decision about the group trying to get to the olympics lol.
     
  14. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Youtube: Jimmy Dore, Secular Talk
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Bosnia is a significantly more talented footballing nation with a more tactical manager and it was in the middle of an offseason. Bolivia got bludgeoned by the US ahead of Centenario too and really are dependent upon playing 2 miles above sea level to get pretty much any result. Just lost to Curacao. Sarachan put like 1 attacker on the field for Cupcake. MLS is very weak on American attacking talent, but still foolish and created dysfunction. Should have stopped at making the point you can only beat who you face.
     
  15. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    Still as overall YTD and coach of the U20.
     
  16. HomietheClown

    HomietheClown Member+

    Dusselheim FC 1971
    Sep 4, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    Been saying since the debacle in Trini we should just let the Sub 23 guys play from now on.

    I don't care if we lose every Gold Cup match. In the long run it will benefit these kids and our National team.
    They will be battle tested and ready for Qatar.
     
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  17. Napoleon_BA

    Napoleon_BA Member

    May 22, 2009
    Club:
    CA Lanús
    THIS!

    I've stated as much, but not on this board. Going forward, the team should be built with an eye on 2026. That means that you basically play the 2020 Olympic Team with a few exceptions (even the Olympics allows 3 exceptions) from now until 2026.

    The team will have:
    -4 Gold Cups
    -1 Olympic Tournament (hopefully)
    -1 World Cup (hopefully 2022)
    ...and perhaps...
    -1 Confederations Cup (2025)

    ...playing together before either co-hosting the 2026 World Cup or Qualifying for the 2026 World Cup in Morocco.

    Some players will be dropped along the way, some will pick up injuries, but you will have a core of European-based players who have frequently played together for 8 years going into the 2026 World Cup.

    There is no question that this should be the mandate from the powers above.
     
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  18. beerslinger23

    beerslinger23 Member+

    Jun 26, 2010

    Great idea but never gonna happen. The incestuous relationship between USSoccer, MLS and SUM precludes any good ideas like yours from coming to fruition.
     
  19. Napoleon_BA

    Napoleon_BA Member

    May 22, 2009
    Club:
    CA Lanús
    Both Brazil & Argentina always include some young domestic talent in international tournaments so that they can pump up their transfer market value before selling the players off to Europe, so we can hardly expect the MLS to sell all of their 18 year-olds to Europe and for US Soccer to only take players plying their trade in Europe.

    But this should be the framework that they start with and go from here... and there are signs that they might be heading down that path.
     
  20. Lookingforleftbacks

    Galaxy
    United States
    Dec 17, 2016
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I have this argument ALL the time on here and every time I have it 5-10 people jump down my throat and laugh at me cuz we would be far better off playing 25-30 year olds. Then when I point out that 25-30 year olds are the reason we aren’t going to Russia, they say we didn’t bring the right 25-30 year olds. Then when I say we’ve been bringing 25-30 year olds almost every World Cup ever and all it’s gotten us was one quarterfinals appearance (led by some 20 year olds), they say “well we aren’t going to win a World Cup anyway so we should just put our team out there to show our best.”

    When this cycle began in November (or whatever) I took some heat for saying I wanted only players who could help us qualify for 2022, but wanted the focus to be players who could also play in 2026. I figured 25 was right about the oldest a player could be and still reasonably expect to be available for both. Everyone scoffed at me for saying specifically 25 cuz it meant guys like Danny Williams and Brad Guzan would be out.

    No matter what, some people just won’t believe in the kids until they are in the headlines with top teams.

    I stand by my points. The only exceptions are positions where we generally lag, like fullback, striker, and possibly keeper, tho it looks like we won’t have to worry about age there. It also looks like we may have some fullbacks and strikers on the horizon that mean we don’t have to worry about old guys there, either.

    So I applaud you for your stance and say I’m all in on it. And all the people who have a problem with kids playing now will be the same ones saying they’ve always said it was a good idea to play the kids later. But we won’t care cuz they’ll be doing it cuz the kids are better than they’ve ever been. And everyone will be happy.
     
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  21. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    But we already had that, in 2006:

    Claudio Reyna, 109 caps, in Europe since he was 20;
    Steve Cherundolo, 37 caps, in Europe since he was 20;
    Brian McBride, 92 caps, in Europe since he was 21;
    Gregg Berhalter, 44 caps, in Europe since he was 21;
    Casey Keller, 93 caps, in Europe since he was 22;
    DaMarcus Beasley, 58 caps, in Europe since he was 22;

    add to that the late arrival, Oguchi Onyewu, 14 caps, in Europe since he was 20; and John O'Brien, who had just returned to the USA after 12 years in Europe, since he was 17 (31 caps), and it's pretty much what you're asking: guys who had gone to Europe young, and had played together in a lot of international games.

    Didn't help us.
     
  22. Lookingforleftbacks

    Galaxy
    United States
    Dec 17, 2016
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes but Germany had that in 2014.
    Klose 132
    Podolski 114
    Lahm 106
    Schweinsteiger 102
    Mertesacker 98
    Özil 55
    Müller 49
    Khedira 46
    Neuer 45
    Kroos 44
    Boateng 39

    Worked out pretty well for them.
     
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  23. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    It's completely different. Thinking that it's enough having several players in Europe who also play a lot of games together in the NT is not it.

    It depends greatly how the players synch with each other.

    For Germany it's very easy: their core is, basically, Bayern. Those guys live, dream, eat & think together.

    It's also not too bad for Spain, with Barcelona and Real Madrid.

    But, for us, having our guys in many different teams, in several different leagues?

    In 2002, the starting XI that took us to QF was:

    ---------------------Premiership-------------------------
    ------Bundesliga---MLS----Championship-------
    Premiership---MLS---Eredivisie--Premiership
    ---------------------------MLS-------------------------------
    ------------------MLS----------MLS------------------------

    5 MLS
    3 Premiership
    1 each BuLi, Ch'ship, Ered. = 5 players in top 8 Euro leagues.


    In 2006, the lineup that got destroyed 3-0 by the Czechs and set the tone for our failure in the group stage was:

    -------------------------Bundesliga---------------------------
    Bundesliga-----MLS------Jupiler----Championship
    Eredivisie---Premiership---MLS---Championship
    --------------------MLS-----Premiership-------------------

    3 MLS
    2 Bundesliga, Premiership & Ch'ship
    1 Jupiler & Eredivisie = 5 players in top 7 Euro leagues.

    You'd have asked anyone here now, that we're Europe-crazy, which one of those two would be going further, and they'd say the latter.

    Thinking that just having guys in Europe & then have them play together a lot of games is the solution is simplistic.
     
  24. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    First, it is silly to take one example and say it proves something. It is silly to take six players in a team of 23 and say we had something. The best player is not listed. Also, "In Europe" is purposefully specious. Novacovich is "in Europe" and so is McKennie. To equate the two situations is assinine, which is what you have done with your list.

    Also...

    Reyna, Age 32
    McBride, Age 32
    Keller, Age 36
    Berhalter, Age 32

    Nobody is saying play these kids until they are 32+, McKennie, Pulisic, Sargent will be 24-26 in 2026. Two years less than the average age of the 2006 WC roster. The problem in 2006 wasn't that the players played together a lot, to suggest so is dumb. It is the same as 2017, Arena valued 30+ year old players beyond logical reason.

    It is all a moot point. Most of these young players are our best players. It is not like you have to choose them over older players. We are going to do the same thing Germany did, but it is not a strategy but reality. McKennie is our best CM right now. Pulisic is our best winger, right now. Miazga is one of our best CBs right now. Adams, Sargent, Weah, Robinson are arguably right there too. When Sargent starts for Werder Bremen on September 15th, he will instantly be playing at a higher level than all the other forwards in the pool.

    It is going to happen whether you like it or not. A Villafana, Trapp, Wood, Saief will fill in here and there along with guys like Green, Arriola, Altidore, and Hamid. But the spine is already here, owned by top clubs, and all under 23.
     
  25. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    You're moving the goalposts.

    The original post to which I was replying, not by you (I think, you never know on the Internet) didn't have the extra conditions you're mentioning now:

    - that they be in top teams;
    - that they be young;
    - that the best player also had to be part of the spine.

    The original conditions of the assertion was that they were in Europe, had played together for eight years or more (in the NT, I assumed, not all in the same club), and that they were the spine of the team (that's, typically, five or six players).

    Now if you want for us to have a bunch of players in top teams that have played over eight years with the NT (hence, lots of caps) by 2026, then you basically want us to be Germany or Spain.

    And that's ridiculous, because Germany and Spain have two of the best leagues in the planet, so their players have where to stay. We don't. Not even Brazil and Argentina have a spine (understood as five or six players who feature often with the NT and cover forward, midfield and defense) in top teams, who have played together for 8+ years.
     

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