US N+A World Cup Discussion Part Deux

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by schrutebuck, Jun 21, 2014.

  1. largegarlic

    largegarlic Member+

    Jul 2, 2007
    This is probably just selfishness on my part, but I would dislike a Dunga hire and wish that Brazil would go back to being more like old-school Brazil. Germany and Spain have shown that you can win in the modern game with creative, attacking, possession-based game plans (and maybe even cover up defensive deficiencies by doing so). Brazil has been moving away from the joga bonito since probably the '86 WC, but I'd like to see them move back in that direction, rather than moving towards the Uruguay/Argentina model of emphasizing defensive solidity and hoping one or two sublime attacking players can pinch goals when needed.
     
  2. luftmensch

    luftmensch Member+

    May 4, 2006
    Petaluma
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What made that style possible was the talent, and right now it just ain't there.
     
  3. ImaPuppy

    ImaPuppy Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 10, 2009
    Using too many parentheses
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    American Samoa
    And a lack of parity and professionalism which is now standard worldwide. The tactics are too advanced now for that type of free-flowing, undisciplined style. You can still have creativity mixed with discipline, like Germany.
     
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  4. Albirrojo

    Albirrojo Member

    Aug 27, 2004
    #11279 Albirrojo, Jul 18, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2014
    I thought Dunga was on the sideline with Scolari in one of the last games. Though, I can't be sure, one of the high profile Brazilians were. If not him it was Zico.

    To other things.

    I only caught the very end of a report on CNN, it sounds like on this plane that was shot down, some fans or players were on their way to Brazil. Okay, here is a story that might talk about it.

    http://www.dallasnews.com/news/loca...grad-student-aids-researchers-soccer-fans.ece

    Oh, the article ends saying they were Newcastle fans.

     
  5. USOutlaw16

    USOutlaw16 Member+

    Milwaukee Bavarians
    United States
    Jan 22, 2011
    On the Gringo Wall of Shame
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Not to mention two fans of Newcastle United were flying to New Zealand to follow their team as Newcastle United are doing their pre-season tour there. :( :( :(
     
  6. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    Bunch of Ajax fans on the flight too, including the one American:

    http://heavy.com/news/2014/07/quinn-schansman-rip-death-american-citizen-mh17/
    Just like Tottenham in England (The Yids), for some reason Ajax (De Joden) concentrates the Jewish fans in the Netherlands.
     
  7. ImaPuppy

    ImaPuppy Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 10, 2009
    Using too many parentheses
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    American Samoa
    Not WC related but I thought this would get more relevant views here than in books:

    I just read Dan Blank's Soccer IQ Vol. I and think it is an excellent resource for broad theoretical application for younger, advanced players.

    http://www.amazon.com/Soccer-iQ-Dan-Blank-ebook/dp/B00ITD6L3A/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1405880165&sr=8-1&keywords=soccer iq

    These are the types of books that will help players and coaches think on the next level, even if the text and ideas themselves are relatively broad and simple. Anyway, I recommend it as some quick reading, nearly everyone here can benefit from at least a portion of the text.

    And before anyone asks, no I am not affiliated in any way with Dan.
     
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  8. russ

    russ Member+

    Feb 26, 1999
    Canton,NY
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Been thinking of ordering that one.
     
  9. uclacarlos

    uclacarlos Member+

    Aug 10, 2003
    east coast
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    Jogo bonito (and please, it's jogoooooo bonito) ultimately opened up space, but mainly immediately. It's much more effective to use passing to open up space, culminating in Spain's tiki taca and Germany's Teutonic version (that @Crimen y Castigo called "trolling Spain" in the opening round).

    And now the international game is about collectively working 4, 5, 6 passes ahead of the game, jogo bonito is beyond dead and has been for decades.


    I honestly don't know what Brazil can do to get back up to speed. I kinda think that more than the onus being on the federation, I think the Brazilian ppl need a goddamn reality check. They were booing teams left and right b/c they weren't satisfied with the level of play. Really? Really? **** you! You deserve to be mauled 10-1 the final 2 games.
     
  10. uclacarlos

    uclacarlos Member+

    Aug 10, 2003
    east coast
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    Now, you know I lurve me some puppy, but ... I've reported your post to Teh Authoritas [#cartman] as spam. I mean, if you're going to advertise a book and sell hundreds of copies just on one post, me thinks Huss and DK should get a cut of the proceeds.

    #dropsmic
     
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  11. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

    Aug 30, 2005
    New York
    #11288 Marko72, Jul 25, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2014
    Interesting stuff. It echoes what one of my psych professors was teaching about theories of expertise, way back in another life it seems. As studies have come in over the years about expertise in all sorts of fields, the further ahead this guy seems to have been back then.

    I wish I could find the link, but months ago I saw a video about some British laboratory conducting tests to measure Ronaldo's abilities. Among other things, they found that his eyes move considerably less during play than an amateur player's, and that he could accurately volley in a cross in front of goal even if the lights went completely dark a split second after the passer makes contact with the ball, which amateur players could not. In other words, he could accurately predict the flight of the ball without being able to see it, as long as he could see the passer pass it.

    Cool stuff.
     
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  12. ImaPuppy

    ImaPuppy Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 10, 2009
    Using too many parentheses
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    American Samoa
    #11289 ImaPuppy, Jul 25, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2014
    I too saw that, it was "Ronaldo - tested to the limit"

    That part was astounding, especially when they were cutting off the lights RIGHT when the ball was hit (24 minutes in). Thanks for reminding me of that, I always meant to post this video:

     
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  13. Bolivianfuego

    Bolivianfuego Your favorite Bolivian

    Apr 12, 2004
    Fairfax, Va
    Club:
    Bolivar La Paz
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    Yep. At that speed of play, your brain has already been through that exact cross or pass, or 'random' positioniong of the ball that you just 'feel'/know where it's going to be and don't even think or with Ronaldo, need to see in order to finish.

    That's the difference between pros (and in Ronaldo's case, world class) and amateurs--a good backyard player will be able to the impossible 1 time in a 100 chances....but it's the pro that can do it consistently that is the better footballer who makes it as a living because of it.

    At the pro level consistency is a HUGE factor.
     
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  14. uclacarlos

    uclacarlos Member+

    Aug 10, 2003
    east coast
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    Ok, you'll appreciate this:

    So I watch the video off and on most of the afternoon. After it ended there was a picture of a video of Usain
    Bolt vs. a cheetah, followed by cheetah being stupid and getting killed by lions, followed by leopards vs. lions, followed by lion v lion. Next thing you know, I think I'm now an expert on lion mating habits.

    God I miss the World Cup.
     
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  15. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

    Aug 30, 2005
    New York
    Yep, that's it. Excellent.
     
  16. tyguy

    tyguy Member

    Apr 11, 2006
    Cheeseland
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Exactly. I remember when the Bulls were in the middle of their title years and you would hear how a gym rat lit up John Paxson in one on one. But someone pointed out that what John Paxson can do that the gym rat can't is play at the top level day in and day out.
     
  17. tyguy

    tyguy Member

    Apr 11, 2006
    Cheeseland
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm not expert by any means on how to kick a ball, but it appears that Ronaldo doesn't follow through with his kick. Also, he doesn't draw his leg back very far when starting his kick. Is this an optical illusion or am I missing something? Does anyone have an explanation how his technique compares to most other players and why he can blast the ball with a short swing of the leg?
     
  18. ImaPuppy

    ImaPuppy Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 10, 2009
    Using too many parentheses
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    American Samoa
    Sure, I can explain this.

    Ronaldo's hip flexor speed and quad strength gives his the unique ability to do two things in regards to his short back swing and short follow through:

    1. His short back swing gives him the element of surprise. The longer your back swing, the more time the keeper has to react to the shot in the sense that he can set himself to get full power into his dive/jump. With less time, he won't be able to generate as much power and as such, won't be able to get to the ball as often.

    2. His short follow through gives him the ability to hit a ball at high velocity from the run of play, and minimize the spin on the ball, thus giving the ball a less predictable trajectory since without spin, the ball will knuckle on its way to the keeper.

    This is something that you can see every time Ronaldo hits the ball - even in a demonstration here it's second nature to him - and is why many of his shots look "different" than other players' shots, since they dip quickly even from the run of play and often will beat keepers simply because the keeper can't judge the flight path, nor react fast enough to get to the shot.

    Hope this helps.
     
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  19. orcrist

    orcrist Member+

    Jun 11, 2005
    Bay Area, California, USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    ^ Worth 2 reps :geek:
     
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  20. nbarbour

    nbarbour Member

    Jun 19, 2006
    Washington DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Rep for the analysis. I've always known about the benefits of a short backswing, but I haven't heard of the benefits of a short follow-through explained that way. Any links/backup on that? Not that I doubt you, but I'd like to learn more. Thanks.
     
  21. ImaPuppy

    ImaPuppy Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 10, 2009
    Using too many parentheses
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    American Samoa
    You can find some youtube videos of various people showing the short follow-through technique for hitting a knuckling free-kick. The short back-swing is just observational, but there may be an article or mention of it somewhere out there.

    The trick is the ability to do it from the run of play. There are quite a few players in the modern game who can hit the knuckling FK (Bale, Pirlo, Ronaldo, Juninho etc.) but very few who have mastered the technique in full stride like Ronaldo has.
     
  22. mckersive

    mckersive Member+

    Mar 26, 2013
    New York City
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I thought the same, like a knockdown shot in golf. The brief impulse of the shorter follow through allows for shorter time for the ball to be rotated by the foot/golf club. Having said that, I found some sources that claim that it is the angle of attack:

    http://books.google.com/books?id=xg...e&q=knuckling shots in soccer physics&f=false
     
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  23. ImaPuppy

    ImaPuppy Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 10, 2009
    Using too many parentheses
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    American Samoa
    #11300 ImaPuppy, Jul 31, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2014
    To expand on this:

    When you go to strike a ball in an attempt to reduce spin, thus increasing knuckle, the natural tendency is to not turn the foot over, much like not turning over the club face in a golf shot. The easiest way to keep your hip turned (open) to where you can make this happen is to draw your heel forward on impact, where it is on a parallel plane with your instep, the part of the foot you're striking the ball with. If you watch the motion, you'll notice a sort of jerk up after the player strikes the ball, rather than the naturally occurring jerk across the body. This is related to the heel being pushed forward on impact and leading the movement, rather than being drawn back and leading with the instep, which would cause the foot to turn over, and would cause the follow through to look like what you normally imagine when you think of someone striking a ball.

    So, they're all related, it's just that it is easier to communicate and instruct using the terminology "short follow through" than it is angle of attack, but they are both related and lead to the player making the same movement.

    Reps for the link, btw.
     
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