US Goalkeeper discussion thread - Part III

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by ussoccer97531, Nov 15, 2017.

  1. LouisianaViking07/09

    Aug 15, 2009
    Guzan is indeed average. But why do we need him as a no.3? We should give younger guys the opportunity. That's the problem with the NT. We were playing Howard (at age 38). No matter how good, he is; thats a problem. Even Italy playing Buffon. It degrades the skills of younger and hungrier guys. And Howard at 37 was not Howard at 35 or even Howard at 29. Guzan did his part. It's over. Gonzalez or Johnson for that spot.
     
    50/50 Ball repped this.
  2. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    We shouldnt give anybody anything. These guys should earn it by showing that they are clearly better than an average GK.

    What degrades the value of the national team is giving average players minutes at the international level. Johnson and Gonzalez deserve shots, but shouldnt get minutes unless they show they are close to the level of expectation. I would be disappointed to see Guzan play, but we need players to beat him out instead of being gifting it to them.
     
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  3. LouisianaViking07/09

    Aug 15, 2009
    That's what I'm saying. Give them the opportunity. Don't just rely on "what you did". Give me "what you're doing now"
     
  4. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    The problem is that I'm not sure who is doing more now than Guzan. I'm not sold on Johnson and dont think Hamid is even close. The rest are still prospects but nowhere near as accomplished as Steffen and Horvath. I personally wouldn't give a minute to anyone beyond those two until they show a lot more. A few games here and there isnt going to get them to that level and would just be a waste.
     
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  5. LouisianaViking07/09

    Aug 15, 2009
    Gotta let them get a game each during early rounds of qualifying or during the next winter call-ups. So January 2020 and 2021, perfect time to let Johnson and Gonzalez build themselves up.
     
  6. OWN(yewu)ED

    OWN(yewu)ED Member+

    May 26, 2006
    chico, CA
    and here we gather, reflecting on the now officially buried discussions of Sean Johnson ever being a USMNT goalkeeper ever again....... go in peace SJ
     
  7. bostonsoccermdl

    bostonsoccermdl Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 3, 2002
    Denver, CO
    I was a GK and I did the exact same thing so I feel his pain. It sucks. (It's the old I was already looking up to evaluate my passing options snafu...)

    The good news is that never, ever happened again. That is the kind of mistake you only make once.
     
  8. LouisianaViking07/09

    Aug 15, 2009
    He'll get over it just like Horvath got over his.
     
  9. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Probably unless he gets the yips. Never know when an athlete gets those and can't throw to second base or in this case becomes hesitant to come out or stay in the box.
     
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  10. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Jesse Gonzalez doing Jesse Gonzalez things for FC Dallas last night against Atlanta. If that kid can mature and get some of the mental aspects of the game right, he can be a good international caliber player. He can make all of the acrobatic saves you want.



     
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  11. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Jesse has all the physical tools and if he ever gets the mental part down he will elevate to the top. However, there are other older keepers that still have trouble with that aspect so there's no reason to predict he will either. At least (so far) he doesn't take pot shots at other keepers.
     
  12. LouisianaViking07/09

    Aug 15, 2009
    Hamid leading the cleansheets. 5 of them in 10 matches. Steffen and Johnson with 4 in 9 matches.
     
  13. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    Hamid's poor hands on display. This guy is nowhere near "international quality". He has serious weaknesses to his game in a position where the goal is consistency/perfection. I am shocked how many people think he should get a shot with the Usmnt.

     
  14. OWN(yewu)ED

    OWN(yewu)ED Member+

    May 26, 2006
    chico, CA
    I continue to be disappointed that both Sean Johnson and Bill Hamid are in discussion at this juncture. Neither have ever been good keepers at any point. Their blunder ratio is unbearable
     
  15. LouisianaViking07/09

    Aug 15, 2009
    But is he good enough against CONCACAF opponents? Nobody (well maybe a few) argues him as no.1 But surely he is worth to have for depth in the pool. A reliable no.3 to be called in during an absolute emergency.

    Besides, blunders happen. Same with Johnson. Same with Horvath. Everyone makes mistakes; it's their level of consistency that matters.
     
  16. ifsteve

    ifsteve Member

    Manchester United
    United States
    Jul 7, 2013
    MS and ID
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Your last sentence is key and correct. The problem with Hamid is that he is consistent in his game. Consistent with coming up with a big save. And consistent with coming up with a big aw shit moment. I do not want to see him anywhere near the NT anymore. Not with the plethora of young kids we have coming up.
     
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  17. LouisianaViking07/09

    Aug 15, 2009
    what other young kids other than Horvath/Steffen/Gonzalez?
     
  18. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Yup. Hamid is in the pool because there aren't a ton of youngish options. Hamid and Johnson are supposed to be in their primes. So if you have a domestic roster, like January camp, an argument can be made for Hamid. Its fine.................

    Am I starting him for the USMNT in a game that matters? No.
    Does it bother me that he's called up? No. Not really.
    Nor does it bother me if we call up Guzan, with all of his experience.

    I'd feel differently if there was a whole big group of elite young keepers that Hamid or Johnson were keeping out of the group. USYNTs have been surprisingly sparse when it comes to keepers recently. The keepers in the last 3 U20 cycles were Jonathan Klinsmann, JT Marcinkowski, Brady Scott, Zack Steffen (twice; 2015 and 2013), Thomas Olsen, Jeff Caldwell, Cody Cropper, and Kendall McIntosh. [Horvath wasn't released his cycle.]

    That list kinda goes a long way to describing the position we're in. We're calling in Steffen, and he's the favorite right now as USMNT starter when the games start to matter. Other than that, its pretty wide open. Some days Horvath looks great and some days he looks average. Some days Jesse Gonzalez looks great and some days he looks average. There are very few keepers out there that have taken the bull by the horns and WON a role. So that's why Hamid, Johnson, etc. are still in the pool.
     
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  19. ifsteve

    ifsteve Member

    Manchester United
    United States
    Jul 7, 2013
    MS and ID
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well geez you named three. How many do you need? If you are talking about emergency depth then you also have Brad to fall back on. And I think I'd rather have him in there than Hamid.

    But to answer your question beyond the other three - Klinsmann and Bono who I take over Hamid in a heartbeat.
     
  20. LouisianaViking07/09

    Aug 15, 2009
    I wouldn't think of Horvath nor Steffen as young kids since theyre currently no.1/no.2 in the pool.

    You'd take Bono? :eek:
     
  21. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
    Jonathan Klinsmann has never played a first team professional game. In fact, he's only played 13 reserve games in his career (in the Regionalliga Northwest. 4th tier in Germany.)

    Nobody is calling Jonathan Klinsmann up over Hamid until he actually does something in the sport. Anything.
     
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  22. TimB4Last

    TimB4Last Member+

    May 5, 2006
    Dystopia
    Maybe Bono for U2, but nothing higher.
     
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  23. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    What most people want in a goalkeeper is somebody who is consistent, nearly mistake free, and capable of making big saves. This kind of keeper doesn't lose you games and every now and then wins you one. He also instills confidence in the team. Hamid doesnt come close to that description. There is nothing reliable about him except he isnt going to fix the very basic flaws in his game. For a number three, I'd settle for veteran who just does the routine stuff or take a flyer on kid... even if he didnt have "first team experience ".
     
  24. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    This crap again. I think the bar is higher than being a mess in MLS. Hamid has broken down every time he has played at a higher level just like he does regularly in MLS.

    I'd easily take a young player shooting to get to a top league over Hamid and guess a lot of people would. I'd bet there is more pressure to improve and perform in the 4th division in Germany than what Hamid faces.
     
  25. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Yeah......................but what has Jonathan Klinsmann ever done?

    And I guarantee you that folks calling for Jonathan Klinsmann's inclusion have rarely seen him play. Unless they're watching the German 4th division. He's a name on a page that has a big club's name next to it. Nothing more.
     
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