A whole generation of "next great American keeper" went down in a heap. DJ Countess, Steve Cronin, Chris Seitz. Adin Brown to an extent. He was injury-prone. Guzan succeeded for a while then cratered. I don't think anyone thought Quentin Westberg was in line for greatness.
Yeah, but that's mainly because we've had 2-4 GKs starting in top European leagues at the time of every WC since 98. We're likely looking at at least 2 MLS GKs in Russia if not all 3. And the starter will almost certainly be an MLS keeper as well.
Hartman, Cannon, Reis, maybe even Busch were just a generation off. Any one of them were on their peak today it wouldn't be a question or debate. Hamid, Bingham, Horvath aren't even in the same breath of those guys if we are comparing generations at their peak. They didn't allow the number of softies in their whole career that Hamid has thus far in his career, nor did you question their leadership and presence in the back like Bingham (who im sure has come close to given Bernardez a concussion a half dozen of occasions flailing his fists at contested balls instead of catching them). When you saw Busch or Cannon in the box they were all, "chill.....I got this", and made the spectacular saves to boot. How did it careen off a cliff so bad. we were no joke ten quality keepers deep 10-15 years ago. We just had 3 elite keepers (Friedel, keller, howard) so you couldn't tell.
Most of those guys listed would be capable for CONCACAF. Which isn't something to turn our nose up at.
The variables are entirely different now. It is not nearly as compelling to go to Europe as it was 15 years ago. It's a crap shoot over there. Look at the players we are discussing and the difficulties they have breaking in. A goalkeeper can stay at home, get paid fairly, even play at home,know exactly what he is getting who the competition is, etc. There are 22 teams now in MLS. And I might offer that the goalkeeper position, though it has dropped off, is not nearly an area of concern, right now.
Think the calculus for Guzan's MLS move is really simple... Goal is to start for the US in the World Cup, and there's exactly a year to win the #1 shirt. Come to MLS and play yourself back into form. Keepers have to play. See if Father Time finally catches up with Howard. Make it a tough decision for Arena.
I think of older keepers, and I think of this play in WC02: Seaman was just shy of 39 at the time. Howard will be just past 39 during WC18. Different keepers, different eras, but time waits for no one. Howard is playing on borrowed time. Kills me to point out this obvious risk because of all that Howard has done. His WC14 performance has justifiably become legendary. But the coaching staff has to be thinking about it and planning for contingencies.
Great point. I did wonder why he'd join MLS after only a few months into his 2/3 year contract at Middlesbrough.
If you can suggest anyone besides Howard that gets worse with every passing month, Guzan who expired 2 years ago, Hamid who has never been good and now worse than that in those few weeks when he isn't injured, Rimando who is good as team mascot, untested Melia and a couple of 20 years kids I'll be happy to hear.
The GK freakout is hilarious to watch. According to some people, everyone we have at the position is bad, every player with a bad game or visible error is a terrible player, its our weakest position, we lost entire generations, etc. I don't think Arena is as worried as some of you.
A lot of folks don't seem to rate Hamid but they rate Bingham. While others feel Guzan is the worst keeper we have and then quite a few who feel he is good enough to be on the roster for Russia. We just don't have a clear no1 without faults. Like how Howard was in 2010 and 2014.
Even in 2014 we were already concerned about Howard's age, remember he briefly lost the US starting job to Guzan in 2013 (although that was sort of due to a perfect storm of Howard getting hurt around the time Guzan began a red-hot streak). I think we're OK at GK, the question is if "OK" at that particular position is good enough for us. We're also spoiled by being accustomed to having so many top-class GKs, which makes our current situation seem worse than it is. I'm actually not worried at all about the GK situation post-Russia, I think Steffen and Horvath will both be more than ready to go by then on top of which we have several exciting prospects in the 17-21 age range, I'm just worried about getting through Russia. Best case scenario--Howard staves off father time, Guzan enjoys a resurgence and rebuilt confidence in Atlanta, Hamid plays well and stays healthy over the rest of this season, and Steffen and Harvath both break out as legit international-caliber players over the course of the rest of this calendar year. It's unlikely all 5 of those things will happen, but there's a very good chance at least 2-3 of them will (and 2 starting-caliber GKs for a tournament is all you really need, we'd be fine going into Russia with Bingham or Melia or a still-not-quite-broken-out Hamid as #3). The other issue is that behind Howard we have (given Guzan's struggles) what, 4-6 guys who are more or less on par with one another and can make a legit claim for the #2 spot? If Howard's age starts to catch up with him and he falls back to that pack it will seriously muddy the waters, which is not good for a team's locker room.
Bings continues to be a good shot stopper and hopefully hes let his one howler in for the year, hes maintained a pretty high level. The one thing I do NOT like to see that has gotten worse this year is his flailing and punching at balls that are obviously out of his reach. hes done it on corners and set pieces a few times. He reminds me a ton of Guzan, but currently Arena doesn't seem to rate him (yet). I think he knows hes gotta make an overseas move this summer to make a move. hes probably the best positioned USMNT goalkeeper to move to a team to start on a team overseas. If hes starting in say, Italy (has an Italian passport), and he is performing. He could jump to the top of the pile. I think hes gonna do everything he can to make that overseas move this summer to jump Howard, Guzan, Rimando, and Horvath.
We certainly had a great generation of keepers there, but I also don't think we've "careened off a cliff" as much as you're implying. Its worth noting that MLS in general is very different today than in the primes of Cannon, Reis, and Hartman. Hindsight tends to be 20-20 when it comes to keepers. All of those keepers made mistakes and howlers, we just don't remember them. The mistakes that guys like Hamid and Bingham make are fresh in our memories. Career Goals Against Average in MLS between some active keepers and those folks are mentioning. David Bingham 1.15 Tim Melia 1.18 Nick Rimando 1.19 Kevin Hartman 1.22 Bill Hamid 1.27 Jon Busch 1.28 Zac MacMath 1.29 Luis Robles 1.31 Matt Reis 1.32 Joe Cannon 1.35 Brad Guzan 1.41 Tony Meola 1.44 Chris Seitz 1.45 Tim Howard 1.45 I just made that list to kinda show that these keepers like Tim Melia, David Bingham, Bill Hamid, Luis Robles concede goals at the same rate (or even better) than the guys people are now looking back at with rose-tinted glasses. We know that GAA can be a slightly flawed statistic (as its kinda a team statistic). How does Bill Hamid stack up to those MLS guys in terms of save percentage? Basically the same................or in other words favorably. Jon Busch 73.0 Bill Hamid 72.4 Joe Cannon 72.2 Kevin Hartman 72.1 Matt Reis 72.0 I know statistics don't tell the whole story. Part of this is the eye test, and there's more to keeping than just saving shots. However, these guys we have in their primes right now (Hamid, Bingham, Melia, Robles, etc.) aren't inferior to previous generations of MLS keepers. They're not Friedel/Keller/Howard.........................and that's the problem. We need Steffen, Horvath, etc. to develop into that. However, these MLS guys right now can certainly get the job done at a CONCACAF level.
Oh dear . . Not sure where to post this, but thought this might be the place. http://www.starsandstripesfc.com/us...ecuador-u20-world-cup-2017-final-score-result The fight back and improved play was inspired, but a boneheaded gaffe by their goalkeeper would undo all of their hard work soon after. A ball played back to Klinsmann left him slightly under pressure. Instead of getting rid of it, he decided to try and dribble out of trouble and gave it right to Cabezas who slotted home the finish to restore Ecuador’s lead. A horrible way to concede after showing so much heart to equalize.
HHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA I DIDNT EVEN SEE THAT ECUADORIAN GUY UNTIL I READ ABOUT HIM ON MY PHONE HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHA being cute in the backfield cost us the win. gotta start Marcinkowski next game, kids not good enough, cost us 3 points.
Klinsmann is awful. If Ramos wasn't doing his old boss a favor, no one would know about him. He's really not even good enough to get a call up for his age group.
To be fair - I thought that goal was the least fault on Klinsmann. The right back shouldn't have passed it back in the first place - he was chasing down a ball and under light pressure, but chose to knock it back to the keeper on the bounce anyway. It was inaccurate and he put some spin on it , and Klinsmann had to trap it first. It was especially a poor decision, because there were two Ecuador forwards in the box - the other defenders had chosen not to follow them, so Klinsmann had two (and then three) Ecuador players in the box with him and the rest of the defenders standing around watching outside it. Klinsmann won't win awards for his ball-touch skills, but he did manage a rather weak clearance between two Ecuadorians, in the vicinity of his left back. But the left back - who had been motionless til then - was caught so off-guard he let an Ecuador midfielder get to it first, then run right by him. At the end, there were 4 Ecuador players in the box, and no defenders. It was an embarrassing play for everyone in the back five for the USA. Klinsmann looked the worst with his pathetic dribbling, but his defenders put him in that situation, then proceeded to do nothing while the trainwreck developed. Klinsmann should be benched because of the other two goals, both very soft. But no one in that back five looked good in the game. I have doubts how far they'll go unless they improve.
I wouldn't completely absolve Klinsmann of blame for the first goal. The right side did get beat, but he made the situation worse than it needed to be. He made an ill-advised attempt at a slide tackle, and should've been sent off. If he had stayed where he was and instead played the shot or got ready for a pass instead of trying to win the ball off the Ecuadorian attacker by venturing out of his goal, he might've actually had a chance to save the shot or maybe the Ecuadorians would've ran themselves into trouble by waiting too long. Instead, he gave them a wide open net. And I don't agree that the back five wasn't good. Redding and Herrera were really bad, especially Herrera who was maybe the worst player on the field, but the other side held up very well. Acosta usually makes the mistakes Herrera made in that game, but he was okay, and EPB was very good, he saved a number of shots that would've been taken by covering his fellow defenders who got caught a number of times. Jones was also very good. He turned around the game giving us a physical presence in CM. Replace Herrera, and the back line should be fine. This was always a worry though that if Klinsmann had to face a number of shots that he'd give up a number of goals. If we can get Herrera out of there, he should face less good chances.
Oh, I completely agree - that first goal was all on Klinsmann. And the second wasn't really an unstoppable shot, either. In fact, the third goal - where he flubbed a dribble and gave it away to the other side - might actually be the one he was least guilty on. Which isn't a good sign - he shouldn't be starting. But as I understand it, he's entrenched as the #1 for some reason. I may be being a bit too negative about the defenders. I think as a whole unit, they weren't very good - but that may be more like 1 or 2 guys dragging down the rest. And Klinsmann's errors magnified the negatives. I do feel bad for the kid - has to be tough being the son of a fired national coach. Your achievements get overshadowed by your dad's notoriety - and he's gotta prove that whatever you think of his dad, he's still good at what he does. Unfortunately ... I don't think he is.
And they've got to move. they can't just expect the keeper to boot it up the field every time. That's not how the best teams play. If the left back starts moving wide when the ball comes in, he either gives Klinsmann the outlet or drags the eventual goalscorer wide left, giving Klinsmann time to get it off and out. Agree that he didn't cover himself in glory on the first two. But I'm not sure that I would say any one-on-one is a soft goal. But I definitely didn't like getting beat near post. On the other hand, do we have a lot of athletic 6-4 keepers with good ball skills? I like Klinsmann's upside, if nothing else