US AT Cuba - how to get a visa and tickets

Discussion in 'USA Men: Fans & Travel' started by bshredder, Nov 25, 2007.

  1. BigMo1234

    BigMo1234 Member

    Jul 21, 2008
    Dallas wrote: <<It's not the US government's fault that Cubans don't get enough to eat. It's the Cuban government's fault. We can't shove food in their mouths, and we have every reason to believe any humanitarian program will be sorely abused (oil-for-food, etc.)>>

    Do you understand what this trade embargo means, and the effects it has on a country, when it also comes with pressure against others not to trade with Cuba? Can't shove food in their mouths? Humanitarian programs? For 45 years we've been attempting to starve the 11 million Cubans--not Fidel--with the embargo (until the recent limited agriculture commerce began at the urging of forward-thinking members of Congress). When the largest trading partner in the Hemisphere and largest food-producer in the world cuts you off, your people are doomed to suffer.

    If you'd really been to Cuba, you would have some basic understanding of this notion. Still waiting for your details on what makes Cuba "hostile".
     
  2. Okay, last time.

    I think you answered your own question. If your assumptions are correct ...

    "For 45 years we've been attempting to starve the 11 million Cubans--not Fidel--with the embargo"

    "the largest trading partner in the Hemisphere and largest food-producer in the world cuts you off, your people are doomed to suffer"

    ... and you've had anti-American propaganda shoveled down your throat for 55 years, then you have the ...

    "details on what makes Cuba 'hostile'."

    Although I would not agree that Kennedy's embargo was an attempt to starve 11 million Cubans.

    My specifics on why are essentially the same as the specifics that others have shared as to why not ... personal experience, touring the nation that was shown me, response of the people as far as I could gauge it. There were friendly people, but my weighing of what I saw and experienced and dealt with left me believing in the nation's hostility. If you and others have a different take and experience, fine. This is mine.

    At the end of the day, you can grouse about how the USA has held this policy for a couple of generations by something like 30 congresses and 10 presidents ... all of varying compositions and political philosophies ... during times of war, peace, prosperity, and scarcity ... but only one thing had to happen for the embargo to be lifted.

    Castro had to leave office and install a democracy/let a democracy be installed.

    But he didn't. Even in this decade, he has led his nation further into the crapper by landing Cuba on the "state sponsors of terrorism" list. In other words, he cared more about hanging on to deteriorating power in an isolated island nation more than whether or not 11 million people under his rule starved

    It's his fault for hanging on to power to the detriment of his people, not the US's. If he loved his people and wanted good things for them, he would have stepped down. Instead, he loves himself and his position more, even to the point of 11 million starving people.

    You can debate the legitimacy and morality of the US policy. You can't debate that this policy has been pursued by many presidents and dozens of congresses. Neither current presidential candidate has made any mention of his intent to change that policy. Such consistency tells me that there's really a problem that BS posters don't know about or fully understand.

    If you're ready to throw all those presidents and congresses ... Republican, Democrat, liberal, conservative ... and Obama and McCain under the bus, that's fine. You'll just forgive me if I rely on the weight of history and my own experiences to form my opinion rather than a couple of posters on BS.

    If it bothers you that another legitimate viewpoint exists, that's not my problem.

    So ... that's my viewpoint. You've posted yours. Let the readers decide ... unless you have a problem with letting people make up their own minds.
     
  3. Alex_1

    Alex_1 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Mar 29, 2002
    Zürich
    Club:
    Grasshopper Club Zürich
    Nat'l Team:
    Switzerland
    Boy did this thread get derailed. But even with it - I haven't seen any exact, personal explanations of this either. I wouldn't doubt that they exist but then again, I've been to England, France, USA and Brasil and come across idiots there as well.

    Anyways, from my understanding, you have to be a member of the media, member of a permitted organization or have consent from the government to travel to Cuba.

    As for all the other stuff... should probably be in the politics/current events fora. IMO Cuban leadership? Not so good. Cuban culture? Amazing. Cuban women? Spectacular. Cuban liquor? Intoxicating. That's all I need. :D Propaganda exists pretty much everywhere.
     
  4. uclacarlos

    uclacarlos Member+

    Aug 10, 2003
    east coast
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    Dallas: you've gone over what should be permitted as far as politics in this thread.

    And I'm sorry to say that much of your logic is simplistic and excludes a nuanced understanding of the country, its politics and its culture.

    I would suggest you refrain to use the word "hostile" b/c in the context of tourism and an embargo, it truly conjures up sharply different images than what you are getting at.

    Who are we to dictate the governance of a sovereign nation?
     
  5. MountainHawk

    MountainHawk New Member

    Sep 7, 2005
    Salem, MA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm stunned this thread is still open ... not like BigSoccer to allow discussion/planning of illegal activities.

    Even if you don't think it should be, it is.
     
  6. From my view, you have gone over what should be permitted, and if either of us have, that's what mods are for. And to prove it, you have insulted me and my viewpoint where I have always offered to have readers compare viewpoints and decide for themselves.

    Unless saying that my logic is simplistic and un-nuanced is not just a nuanced way of calling me stupid.

    You have a problem that I hold these views and express them. Therefore you attack and accuse me and set up bogus new rules. As for me, I don't have a problem that you hold certain views or that you express them.

    Therefore, I invite the reader to decide for themselves who is trying to discourage debate, sharing of viewpoints, and fears the exchange of ideas.

    PS - "Hostile" is the exact word and meaning I try to convey.
     
  7. Alex_1

    Alex_1 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Mar 29, 2002
    Zürich
    Club:
    Grasshopper Club Zürich
    Nat'l Team:
    Switzerland
    What the... both of you are insulting one another. It's not just a one-way street thing.

    So let's try to be a little calmer. The thread's about people that may want to go there and how to go - if it's even possible. Not everyone's going to think/feel the same, as not everyone had the exact same experience. For regime/gripes about the political landscape - those types of debates should be in the politics forum. But discussing the political landscape for the sake of what to expect and what's permitted as a tourist, etc. - that is ok. So I'd imagine.
     
  8. uclacarlos

    uclacarlos Member+

    Aug 10, 2003
    east coast
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    Uh.

    How exactly have I insulted him???? :rolleyes:

    It's not. Nor was it my intention.

    I don't expect everybody to have expertise in politics and history in the Caribbean. I was trying to point out some pitfalls in your argument.
     
  9. uclacarlos

    uclacarlos Member+

    Aug 10, 2003
    east coast
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    Then a neutral reader needs to know that you're categorically wrong.





    Plus. I don't think that's what you're saying. I think you're saying that Cuba's politics and propaganda are hostile towards the US. In which case, you'd be right.

    There's militaristic propaganda all over the place.

    But that doesn't mean that it's hostile for an American tourist. Not in any way, shape or form.

    Again: politics and people aren't the same.
     
  10. BROSUF

    BROSUF Member

    Feb 21, 2008
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Don't turn us in, we're just talkin here. Or.... does the Patriot act ban these sorts of subversive activities?
     
  11. El Naranja

    El Naranja Member+

    Sep 5, 2006
    Alief
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Thats the FBI knocking on your door in a couple minutes.....
     
  12. Alex_1

    Alex_1 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Mar 29, 2002
    Zürich
    Club:
    Grasshopper Club Zürich
    Nat'l Team:
    Switzerland
    Tone. And the whole 'simplistic' thing. Look, not being a narc, but little tic-tac nonsense like that grates and can quickly escalate.

    Anyway, not like I really care. But the politics stuff should be in that forum.
     
  13. deedougie

    deedougie Member

    Jul 5, 2000
    SF,CA
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So getting back to the subject at hand, is anyone thinking about making the trip to Cuba for the game? I am a photojournalist who's been covering US Soccer and the fans for a number of years an I'm interested in making the trip!
     
  14. nyrmetros

    nyrmetros New Member

    Feb 7, 2004
    Make the trip happen!!
     
  15. JeremyEritrea

    JeremyEritrea Member+

    Jun 29, 2006
    Takoma Park, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    ZOMG, u r so rite!

    I want a pony!!!

    ;)
     
  16. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Like I pointed out on a different message board, you need to contact USSF immediately if you are interested in this trip. They have an agency that is helping journalist get all the of the necessary travel documents from Cuba and the U.S. State Department as well as arranging transportation between Miami and Havana and hotel accommodations in Havana. At this point, it may be too late.
     
  17. nyrmetros

    nyrmetros New Member

    Feb 7, 2004
  18. HighburyForever

    HighburyForever Red Card

    Oct 15, 2006
    Wooloomooloo, New South Wales
    Club:
    Zenit St Petersburg
    Nat'l Team:
    Russia
    What kind of immigrant has a pony? Who would leave a country packed with ponies to come to a non-pony country?
     
  19. HardHatMike

    HardHatMike DOOOOOOOOM!

    Traktor Nebraska
    Aug 31, 2005
    Lincoln, Nebraska
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We should appoint a commission to study the anti-pony policies of the current administration and what can be done to counter them through negative radio ads.
     
  20. Sparky98

    Sparky98 Member

    Jun 8, 2007
    In all the pictures of immigrants coming to the United States, I never saw one with a pony.
     
  21. dcpohl

    dcpohl Member+

    Feb 9, 2007
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Did anyone ever decide to take the risk and attempt to attend the match?
     
  22. BROSUF

    BROSUF Member

    Feb 21, 2008
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If you have, don't post a thing here.
     
  23. thethinwhiteduke

    Feb 13, 2008
    i know of a number of US supporters who are making the trip for the match, although i personally couldnt schedule it. the USMNT will be supported vocally at this match, if not in overwhelming numbers.
     
  24. El Naranja

    El Naranja Member+

    Sep 5, 2006
    Alief
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This.

    I also hope they keep off the cameras or keep their faces covered.

    Otherwise there will be some nice gentlemen there to meet you off the plane....
     
  25. dcpohl

    dcpohl Member+

    Feb 9, 2007
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You're joking! Wow, they should all wear American flag bandannas to cover their faces like the Outlaws wear.

    Wahl posted this on his blog:
    Not exactly discouraging is it?
     

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