PBP: United States vs Costa Rica; 09/01; 6:30pm ET

Discussion in 'USA Men' started by AutoPenalti, Sep 1, 2017.

  1. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    Not really.

    Costa Rica starting lineup:
    5 from MLS (Waston, Calvo, Bolanos, Guzman, Urena),
    2 from top Euro leagues (Navas, Borges),
    2 from other Euro leagues (Ruiz, Gamboa),
    1 from a second division in Europe (Oviedo),
    1 from Costa Rican league (Johnny Acosta).
    Subs:
    2 from Costa Rican league (Azofeifa, Salvatierra)
    1 from Iranian league (Michael Umana)

    USA starting lineup:
    5 from MLS (Howard, Zusi, Nagbe, Bradley, Altidore),
    4 from top Euro leagues (Wood, Pulisic, Johnson, Cameron),
    1 from a second division in Europe (Ream),
    1 from Liga MX (Villafana).
    Subs:
    3 from MLS (Dempsey, Morris, Arriola)


    Composition CRC Squad:
    9 from Costa Rican league
    7 from MLS
    2 from La Liga
    1 from each league: Portugal, Switzerland, Scotland, Iran
    1 from English Championship

    Composition USA Squad:
    18 from MLS
    3 from Bundesliga
    1 from EPL
    2 from Liga MX
    2 from English Championship

    * We had more players from Top European leagues on the field than they did. They started 5 MLS field players to our 4. Their squad is dominated by CRC/MLS leaguers, ours by MLSers. Our weakest "foreigner" came from the Championship, their weakest "foreigners" came from Scotland and Iran!

    * The competitive record in the CONCACAF Champions League does not support the hypothesis that the Costa Rican league is clearly superior to the MLS.
     
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  2. Salmos

    Salmos Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 26, 2010
    Berkeley, CA
    Club:
    Pachuca CF
    I also saw that and thought WTF... Figured maybe "New Mexican" had nothing to do with the state and meant 2nd+ gen Mexicans who have no real ties to Mexico but there's no way 0-1st gen Mexicans outnumber 2nd+ by 31-1.
     
  3. Ruben Rivas

    Ruben Rivas Member

    Madrid
    United States
    Apr 1, 2017
    Miami
    Ruiz = Dempsey kind of

    Bolaños = Bradley

    Borges = this is where they won the game

    They may have a better coach too.
     
  4. bigredfutbol

    bigredfutbol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 5, 2000
    Woodbridge, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #704 bigredfutbol, Sep 2, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2017
    I assume the distinction being made here is that northern New Mexico was settled during the Spanish colonial era, and the descendants of those settlers are still a culturally and demographically distinct group. Most Hispanics in the United States either emigrated here or their ancestors came here after 1848, but not the New Mexicans.

    EDIT: My understanding is that the Alta Californians and Tejanos mostly got assimilated or dispersed. But the settlers in the agricultural valleys of New Mexico hung around and maintained a distinct identity. I believe the novel "The Milagro Beanfield War" is set in one of those NM communities.

    EDIT: See below--I got rightly called out on the Tejanos.
     
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  5. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    Tejano culture persists and claims origins from before 1848.
     
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  6. bigredfutbol

    bigredfutbol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 5, 2000
    Woodbridge, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You're right. I was "riffing" a possible answer just looking at the chart and thanks to tunnel vision ignored the obvious.

    Also, I just took the dog for a walk and it hit me that I probably over-thought my answer. The obvious explanation is simply that Spanish/Mexican "New Mexico" was a much larger area than the modern US State. The population they're referring to are the "Hispanos" who today are also found in several other southwestern states although NM has the largest population.

    Why the chart doesn't also mention Tejanos I don't know. They're actually a larger group.

    EDIT: The chart actually specifies "Self-identified ethnic identity" not national origin. Do Tejanos commonly claim Mexican ethnicity? Maybe that's the answer.
     
  7. Pl@ymaker

    Pl@ymaker Member+

    Feb 8, 2010
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yep, most do but I don't.:thumbsup:
     
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  8. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    #708 Robert Borden, Sep 2, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2017
    MLS Internationals>>>>>Costa Rica League Internationals

    Costa Rica league domestics>>>>>>>>>MLS American domestics

    So MLS has more money than Costa Rican league and therefore can afford better internationals. But there's not necessarily a correlation between League and national team.

    England has the most competitive league in Europe but their national team is far from being the best on the old continent.

    As for the CCL, the point I was making is that it can't be used to determined which league is better as the tournament is manipulated to "help" MLS (except Canada), something that Costa Rican & Canadian teams don't get, yet...

    2014-2015 Both Alajuelense & Saprissa won their groups against Cruz Azul and Leon in group stage

    Montreal beat Pachuca & Alajuelense in Knockouts

    2013-2014 Alajuelense eliminated America from group stage

    Since CCL tempered with the group stage draw in 2012, Costa Rica was still able to win and eliminate Liga MX clubs despite their disadvantage in comparison to MLS clubs (except Canadian Clubs) who have the luxury of not meeting Mexican clubs until the knockout stage.

    Still only Costa Rican and Canadian clubs eliminated Mexican clubs without any "favoritism". Troubling isn't?

    So my point is CCL is NOT credible source to compare both league and anyone going there will have those facts proving my point.

    The Canadian Premier League set to start in 2019 will most likely send their champion to the CCL as Canada's 2nd team once the CSA applies to CONCACAF for it. Should make the tournament more exciting than those Caribbean clubs who can't seem to do anything in CCL
     
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  9. Ruben Rivas

    Ruben Rivas Member

    Madrid
    United States
    Apr 1, 2017
    Miami
    England has the most "fair" league with bunch of overpaid players.

    To me it's like this;

    1. La Liga
    2. Bundesliga
    3. Serie A
    4. Premier
    5. French
    6. Holland, Portugal

    The level played in premier is more like the level of the French, Dutch, Portuguese, all with very similar level.
     
  10. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    My emphasis was on "competitive". The other leagues are usually top 3-4 and the rest.

    England keeps you guessing most of the season like MLS.
     
  11. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    No, sorry. Last season we knew Chelsea was the Champ long before Real Madrid had clinched it. The fun battle in the EPL is for relegation, you always have five teams fighting it to the end.

    La Liga is top to bottom the best league in the world. Their UEFA Coefficient is phenomenal because even their mid-table teams are hard as heck to get rid of in European competition.

    Germany, England and Italy are all in a tight bunch, but far, far below. That's for a reason.
     
  12. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    They edged Tottenham by 7 points. It was closed until the last 2 weeks.
     
  13. iggymcfly

    iggymcfly Member

    Jun 20, 2014
    No way in hell Serie A is better than Premier League by any possible definition except "best team". Juve might be slightly better than Man City, but if you went down the line 2-20, the Premier League would have better teams in every single position.
     
  14. iggymcfly

    iggymcfly Member

    Jun 20, 2014
    Chelsea was very lucky to win the league by that margin. According to underlying numbers like expected goal difference, they were only the 3rd or 4th best team in the league.
     
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  15. Ruben Rivas

    Ruben Rivas Member

    Madrid
    United States
    Apr 1, 2017
    Miami
    The Italian league has dropped a lot, that's for sure but the level they play is close to the English, I will say they are close to each other in level, very close.

    I will put the French, English and Italian league in the same bracket followed closely by the Dutch and Portuguese.
     
  16. nbstriker8

    nbstriker8 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Dec 10, 2008
    new beige
    Club:
    SL Benfica
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't think otherwise. Doesn't excuse the performance from our guys.
     
  17. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    You need to watch more UEFA football.

    Until last year it was:
    France: Paris, Monaco Lyon and the rest
    Italy: Juventus, Roma, Napoli and the rest
    Germany: Bayern and the rest, no joke

    Let's no forget Leicester City magically run in the Champions league.
     
  18. iggymcfly

    iggymcfly Member

    Jun 20, 2014
    LOL, Ligue 1 is an absolute joke after the top few teams. They have maybe 5 or 6 teams total that would be favorites to stay up if they played in the Premier League. You can't just look at the top 2 or 3 teams and say they're on par.
     
  19. 70runner

    70runner Member

    Jun 21, 2007
    Welcome to the wonderful world of USMNT soccer since Bradley became the 90min, every game, el capitan fixture (pun intended). When he isn't chasing more skilled, quicker mids (nearly every one they play), he has become the CONCACAF backpass expert. Put the kid at center mid with Nagbe, sit Bradley on the pine next to deuce, and, presto, a competitive midfield.

    What mid improvement Bruce gained with Nagbe, even Acosta, he has lost by keeping Bradley around to slow things down. Bradley isn't the only issue, but when the team isn't competitive at midfield, mistakes by defenders and strikers are often magnified.
     
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  20. Jlpurelove

    Jlpurelove Member

    Jun 3, 2016
    charlotte nc
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Peru
    I have seen Cameron played before and he is garbage at the international level. I still remember a game versus Mexico where he looked slow as a turtle and completely incompetent. Against Costa Rica was no different. I cannot understand why Bruce Arena put called him up for USMNT. What made things worst was to have him play next to Zusi who was utterly useless and played with no confidence and had no idea where to go or what to do with the ball. Bruce Arena completely fuc..up by playing them.

    Also Nagbe is just not goid enough to play in the middle. He has a nice change of pace but he has no vision.. no feeling to control the game and if he cannot do that, we need to bring another playmaker.
     
  21. Ruben Rivas

    Ruben Rivas Member

    Madrid
    United States
    Apr 1, 2017
    Miami
    Cameron had a bad game but the problem was Ream no him.
     
  22. Mantis Toboggan M.D.

    Philadelphia Union
    United States
    Jul 8, 2017
    The flight isn't as bad as you would think since you go over the pole. I flew SF-Reykjavik last year and it was about 7.5 hours, England or Germany to say Seattle would likely be about the same.
     
  23. Jlpurelove

    Jlpurelove Member

    Jun 3, 2016
    charlotte nc
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Peru
    Were you expecting anything different from him?
     
  24. schlomo

    schlomo Red Card

    F.C. Dallas
    United States
    Apr 6, 2017
    Many Tejanos have a spanish-centric ethnicity, not necessarily Mexican, though that is prevalent as well.

    As with any cultural group there are many complications and subcultures.
     
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  25. schlomo

    schlomo Red Card

    F.C. Dallas
    United States
    Apr 6, 2017
    The US lost because the players whose job it was to connect in the final third could not get the job done.

    Pulisic was terrible. Wood was bad. Jozy was invisible. The wings were not effective.

    Its time to consider other options where it makes sense.
     

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