PBP: United States vs Brazil; 9/7; 7:30pm ET

Discussion in 'USA Men' started by AutoPenalti, Sep 6, 2018.

  1. a_new_fan

    a_new_fan BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Jul 6, 2006
    I am not sure anyone outside ives/davey boy are really worked up. He shouldn't be talking about anyone though he isn't even the coach he's the only guy they could talk into pretending to coach matches that don't matter while they try to take a chunk out of fans for ticket prices. I'd challenge you to find anyone who talked like that in the press to him....I'll wait. you also said he said that about other players...I'm still waiting for those.
     
  2. Mantis Toboggan M.D.

    Philadelphia Union
    United States
    Jul 8, 2017
    We do, he just wasn't there. We also have a number of guys who have the potential to develop into "world class" (Steffen, Weah, McKennie, Miazga, Adams, Robinson) and a few guys who are just a step below "world class" (Yedlin, Brooks).
     
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  3. LouisZ

    LouisZ Member+

    Oct 14, 2010
    Southern California-USA
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm not saying Miazga is bad or can't pass but most of the time he would defer the ball movement and forward passing to Brooks.
     
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  4. cleansheetbsc

    cleansheetbsc Member+

    Mar 17, 2004
    Club:
    --other--
    If you say so.
     
  5. ttrevett

    ttrevett Member+

    Apr 2, 2002
    Atlanta, GA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    One thing that I brought up a while back is that these players all come from different teams and get together for only a few days prior to a match. All national sides have the same issue. When our team gets together, we look like a team that has no idea how to play as a team. When we play against a good side however, their possession really seems to flow as people are moving in a way that looks as if they have been playing together for a dramatically longer time than just the few days ahead of the game.

    I don't know (as I never played high level soccer) if that is just a major difference in the quality of the player (meaning they are just significantly better footballers and inherently know how to move in certain circumstances as part of a team) or the coaching. But it just seems that for the vast majority of the passes our players receive, they receive the ball and have to look where to pass next or dribble and in both cases are likely to lose the ball if they are in the attacking half.

    This doesn't happen just against Brasil. Look at meaningful games against teams from Central America and Mexico. They just play better team football than we ever seem to.
     
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  6. LouisZ

    LouisZ Member+

    Oct 14, 2010
    Southern California-USA
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It doesn't happen to Peru, Japan, Korea and they are not powerhouses. Half of our team plays abroad to supposedly better programs, so what is so different? In my opinion, it boils down to our coaching (e.g. player selection, formation and on-field instruction).
     
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  7. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    Oct 14, 2011
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The major deficiency of our development system is we don't develop players who are comfortable with the ball especially under pressure. The paradox is that we develop players with poor ball control skills because we are over-coached and over organized at a young age while in the rest of the world kids are learning to "love" the ball.

    If you don't have players who are comfortable with the ball, under pressure, in tight spaces they you can't execute the kinds of instinctive possession combinations that we see from other teams.
     
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  8. FanOfFutbol

    FanOfFutbol Member+

    May 4, 2002
    I actually wish I could rep this several times.

    We need a shakeup from U7 rec all the way up in the way kids are coached and allowed to play. Every time you see a youth coach running up and down the side line screaming at the kids you see kids being ruined for the future of soccer.

    It is not that the same stupid coaching does not happen elsewhere (see Spain's U20 women as an example of bad coaching) but it is that it happens a lot less elsewhere and it shows in the number of kids that can separate the good that a coach says from the bad. Most US players take their coaches words too seriously and have no idea when to break out of the pattern or ignore the bellows from the sideline completely.

    The only problem with youth soccer in the US is the adults.
     
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  9. LouisZ

    LouisZ Member+

    Oct 14, 2010
    Southern California-USA
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    When I was a youth coach I tried that, some got it, but more than half didn't even at club level. The problem is the emphasis to win is greater than to teach and learn.
     
  10. FanOfFutbol

    FanOfFutbol Member+

    May 4, 2002
    There is no "try." There is do or don't do.

    I cannot say if the approach you tried is correct or not but the problem really is that those that get it right in the US are almost always drummed out of the coaching ranks in the US because of the reason you listed. It does not win at U7-11 where the worst damage gets done. The young groups play at a speed slow enough where the coach can play the game from the sideline by yelling at the kids and get victories. Of course the kids learn very little and by the time the deficiencies really show much of the damage is done. The remote control coaching begins to fail somewhere between U11 and U16 and very few kids can recover from the damage that was done by the bad coaching.
     
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  11. LouisZ

    LouisZ Member+

    Oct 14, 2010
    Southern California-USA
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    Coaching at the recreational level is futile because the players change each year.
    Coaching at the competitive level from U13-17 easier to teach but parents expectation is to win every tournament in sight, each win, in their eyes, puts their kids closer to a free ride scholarship.
    The ODP system in those days was based on pre-teen recognization rather than current playing form.
    Changes starting to happen when I left the program back in the late 90s. Not sure if still the same or it has improved.
     
  12. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    Brooks and Miazga seem to pair up nicely. That's perhaps the biggest positive take-away from this game. Those two should be good enough to qualify out of C-CAF.

    The fullbacks, though... sigh. Of course, no one in the region can combine like the Brazilians on the wing. Honduras, Panama and Jamaica are mostly just speed, and Yedlin/Robinson should be fine dealing with that.
     
  13. FanOfFutbol

    FanOfFutbol Member+

    May 4, 2002
    I actually got my youth coaching start in England after I left the service way back in the 1970s. I think I was kept in the program for only two reasons:
    1. I was able to teach basic goalkeeping to young players without traumatizing them too much.
    2. (I think this was the most important) It was a novelty to have a US citizen on the staff.

    But that 2.5 years taught me a LOT about how to teach kids soccer. It was not all just toss out a bunch of balls and tell them to go play and have fun but there was also not an over emphasis on the win until the kids hit about 15 or sometimes 14.

    When I returned to the states I coached youth soccer until about 2000-2002 but I found that highly frustrating for the reasons you mention. Fortunately I found a club that had a director of coaching that understood soccer coaching and was able to insulate me for most of the win at all costs parents. I had a team that had two back to back perfect seasons, no wins, and then put it together and won the state. The director, I found out later, protected me from several parents that wanted "win now." Those kids learned soccer but not one was a player that was going to be a national team player.

    Unfortunately in the US I have seen no evidence that the youth programs are improving and the top of the pyramid, US Soccer, is where I put the blame. I wish I could see improvement but I don't.

    With the way our youth are coached I do not think that the US will ever get much better than they are and even the women's program will fall back into the same doldrums as the men's. We just cannot let the kids play we, adults, must control everything and that hampers development when it matters most.

    I mentioned in another thread that the USSF is like the soccer equivalent of a "Water monopoly empire" and as such will just be stagnant or decline unless attacked by an outside force and there is no viable outside force that could attack the USSF. So we are doomed to be the mediocre soccer country we are for the future and any hope for a better performance will come at the rare times when the players preform better than they are coached.
     
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  14. ttrevett

    ttrevett Member+

    Apr 2, 2002
    Atlanta, GA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This should be everyone's sig line for a day.
     

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